I tried posting this once and it didn't work. I hate my computer.

Anyway, I'm working on a damage system for use with Maneuvers in Time and Space defense mechanics. I need people to really "feel" it when they get hurt. I despise negative hit points. I also want to work something like an mp system into it. Those be my priorities.

I have a few options for making it work. One is progressive penalties. The other is a short term effect like stunning or knockback. The last is to skip damage tracks, like in SW D20 wth the VP/WP system.

My thoughts are this:

You have some amount of lethal damage (your constitution score or somesuch) and some amount of superficial damage (generally three times as much as your lethal damage).

You can also gain fatigue, which applies as a penalty on certain checks.

Lastly, you have some sort of massive damage threshold.

Damage goes to your superficial until you run out. Then it goes to your lethal. Any time you take lethal damage, you also gain  one fatigue. Any time you take massive damage, you also take a point of lethal. When you run out of lethal, you die. When you get maximum fatigue, you pass out.

Thoughts?

Quote from: beejazzThoughts?

Sounds over complicated.

Why not just come up with a base ratio that states something to the effect of, say, 1/4 to 1/3 hit point loss equates to 'superficial' whereas 2/3 hit point loss is critical (requires immediate medical attention and prolonged recover time) and, say, anything greater than 3/4 hit point loss indicates a potentially critical fatality.

Or something along those lines.  The potential pros being you'd not have to develop an entirely new sustem just apply a slight modification to the existing system.  Assuming any of what I just wrote makes sense to you.  If not, well, then that would be a major con.

Quote from: Kester PelagiusSounds over complicated.

Why not just come up with a base ration that states something to the effect of, say, 1/4 to 1/3 hit point loss equates to 'superficial' whereas 2/3 hit point loss is critical (requires immediate medical attention and prolonged recover time) and, say, anything greater than 3/4 hit point loss indicates a potentially critical fatality.

Or something along those lines.  The potential pros being you'd not have to develop an entirely new sustem just apply a slight modification to the existing system.  Assuming any of what I just wrote makes sense to you.  If not, well, then that would be a major con.

Nah, too simple. In either case, the "1/3, 3/4, etc" hp thing happens already when you generate hp. I have an easier time with multiplying constitution (or what have you) than with dividing hp totals. Especially when you can buy extra hp and no longer be divisible by the same numbers.

Would it maybe simplify to nix the massive damage threshold and instead make all that stuff happen on a crit? I dunno, I'd kinda feel like it was a SW clone then.

Quote from: beejazzNah, too simple.

You say that like it's a bad thing. From experience, it works a treat.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceYou say that like it's a bad thing.

No... far from it. Hit points is, generally, my preference. Its a simple set up and would work. At its most basic level, I'm already going to use something like it.

What I'm hung up on isn't the simplicity; what I'm more hung up on is adding some little twist to make players sweat, given the defense rules I posted in that other thread, maneuvers in time and space.

Aside from a temporary impairment (like stunning or knockback rules) or progressive incapacitation or even teired damage as per the old StarWars D20 VP/WP or what have you, I could just give people less hitpoints... but then I like kind of combat-heavy games, and would prefer more temporary setbacks, y'know?

Or maybe I am making it too complicated... I dunno. Just wanted to think what options I had.

If you're familiar with the old Tunnels & Trolls game you'll remember Monster Ratings, which tied the combat ability of monsters to their hit points.
You could try somehow tying in the Hitpoint (or fatigue) scores of the characters into their combat abilities, so they effectively get weaker as they get wounded. It's less than perfect as a high HT character is going to have an unrealistic edge in combat. Fatigue would work better but not by much.

Personally I reckon a knockback / penalty system based on the wounds yor character has just taken would be a better method. My GURPS 4e Gm often makes my mage character make a roll to see if he's lost concentration or dropped the fireball he's working on if he takes a wound in the process of casting. Not sure if thats canon 4e or a SJG approved houserule, 'cos GM loves any houserules he gets off the SJG forums

Do you really need superficial, critical and fatigue? Why no reduce it two just fatigue and ouch. Fatigue would be pretty similar to normal hit points, so it wouldn't be gained just by fighting for x rounds, but the usual half-deflected blow goes straight to it. So you have characters getting weary without additional mechanics.

Also, armor can convert from critical to fatigue damage, i.e. no tissue damage, but impact. Magic drain is fatiguing, too.

That's too complicated for me, I wouldn't play it.

Perhaps the distinction between superficial and lethal damage was a bit much. They're effectively all just hit points... and really only an excuse not to use negative hp. The rollover thing, I suppose, is not critical.

Distinguishing between hp and fatigue seems necessary, if only because it ties in with the psionics system, and I wanted to have psychics be (at least potentially) strained by their spells without being neccessarily closer to dead.... 'Cause, y'know, dying because you had to use telepathy seems kinda lame.

For immediate risks, I suppose something instantaneous would work better. Less to keep track of, and all that. I suppose some way of interrupting things, like in DnD or in the houserule mentioned above.