Anybody remember Aftermath with its thirty hit locations? That whole design philosophy was an 80s reaction to D&D, if you ask me.

I thought Millennium's End had the hit location system to end all hit locations.

You had various body maps to represent people running, standing, kneeling, etc. Then you overlayed a clear plastic template with various numbered dots depending on range and shooting patten (duckbilled shotguns, and swinging melee attacks had a wide flat spread). Then depending on what you rolled determined the dot you looked under. With 25 different numbered body segments you could hit. Then it determined if you fractured a body or hit vital organs depending on the bullets penetration.

Quote from: droogAnybody remember Aftermath with its thirty hit locations? That whole design philosophy was an 80s reaction to D&D, if you ask me.

Then there was Sword's Path: Glory and Rhand: Morningstar Missions.

Not just hit locations, but specific bones and internal organs.

That isn't what killed it for me (although I'd probaby never have used the game in actual play). It was the 1/12 second combat rounds which struck me as both cumbersome and unlikely to enhance realism. (In the way that too much "design for cause" winds up yielding unrealistic/undesirable effects.)

QuoteNot just hit locations, but specific bones and internal organs.

Crikey! Not for me – RQ was always my limit in terms of 'realism'.

Quote from: Elliot WilenThen there was Sword's Path: Glory and Rhand: Morningstar Missions.

Not just hit locations, but specific bones and internal organs.

Yeah, I seem to Remember Tri Tac Games' systems has a pretty specific tracking for injuries. Like tracking the path of the bullet through the body.

Quote from: droogAnybody remember Aftermath with its thirty hit locations? That whole design philosophy was an 80s reaction to D&D, if you ask me.

God yes, Aftermath! At least it had a logical system for shifting the hit location, although I can't remember the details of how it worked. For me Aftermath is most fondly remembered as the game in which me and my gaming buddies of the time first cut our teeth on romantic melodrama. Memories, sigh.

The One Roll Engine (used in Godlike, Nemesis, and the upcoming Reign) uses hit locations, with an option for very detailed damage as well (i.e. specific organs/bones).

I used a random hit table in YotZ, but I also recommended it only be used against the zombies, or it soon sucks to be the PC's.

There used to be a hit by location system in D&D 3.0 in the DMG, but I don't think it was included in 3.5.

Gimme a sec

OK, I grabbed a screenshot of the PDF. There's the rough and ready hit by location rules. Nothing groundbreaking as far as rules go, I tried to use the rules already existing to simulate the effects of being hit in those locations.

It ain't realistic, but it's FUN!

Quote from: Mcrowall of Hinterwelt's games have hit locations.

I like them and they don't seem to complicate or slow things down. A combat scene doesen't seem to take any longer that d20 or gurps does.

Thanks Mike. To more detail. There are ten locations:
1 - Head
2 - Rt Arm
3 - Rt Shoulder
4 - Center Chest
5 - Lt Shoulder
6 - Lt Arm
7 - Stomach
8 - Groin
9 - Lt Leg
10 - Rt Leg

If a hit is made in comabat then the Targeting skill for that weapon is rolled and if successful (rolled under) then the attacker may direct the attack to a desired location. If Targeting is missed for that attack, then a d10 is rolled to randomly determine location. Each attack that hits has its own Targeting roll.

An important aspect of this is the Fortitude. You calculate Base Fortitude from (STR+CON+WIL)/3 + 1/2 CON which usually yields a number in the twenties or thirties. You then apply Base Fortitude like so:
1,4 - 1/2 Base Fortitude
7,8 - Base Fortitude
All other areas double Base Fortutude.

This is an attemt to model that the vital organs (Head, Chest, Stomach and Groin) a more susceptible to fatal damage than the limbs. Yes, I know, Femoral arteries and such but it is just an RPG.

And again, you can ratchet it up a notch with Parrying, Blocking and Dodging. Defense is the target number you must roll over to hit an opponent and is your (STR+AGL+CON)/3 and usually renders a number between 10-20 (although super human critters will push into the 20s with their Defense).

Like mike mentioned, it is about as speedy/complicated as GURPS or D20.

Bill

The problem I always had was all the freaky-ass monsters that you encounter in RPGs. It just doesn't make sense to use a human hit location chart for hydras, beholders, centaurs, dragons, etc. So do you have a million different charts or do you only use the chart for hits on humanoid opponents, which tends to fuck-over the (usually humanoid) PCs a lot more than their (often non-humanoid) enemies?

I just use degree of attack roll success and damage delivered as a guide to "hit location." Roll a crit and do a shitload of damage, I'll call it a sweet head shot. Deal a single point? That's more of a shoulder knick.

Quote from: YamoThe problem I always had was all the freaky-ass monsters that you encounter in RPGs. It just doesn't make sense to use a human hit location chart for hydras, beholders, centaurs, dragons, etc.

Not all games are D&D. Plenty of games feature primarily human(oid) opponents.

I've seen otehr approaches... abstracting the hit results, extending the tables.

Of course, if I had a perfect answer, I wouldn't have started this thread.

Quote from: T-WillardIt ain't realistic, but it's FUN!

I remember reading this for the first time and thinking, "Hit locations in d20? That's a needless complication.  I suppose he wanted to make it more 'realistic'"

Then I thought, "Oh yeah.  Headshots."

QuoteMy problem when designing these systems is I all to often sacrifice playability for realism, and it gets complicated real fast.

For some people, this is not a dichotomy but siamese twins!

--Millennium`s End & Harnmaster & Twilight:2000 Veteran

Quote from: droogAnybody remember Aftermath with its thirty hit locations? That whole design philosophy was an 80s reaction to D&D, if you ask me.

Nobody who's taken a shot to the 12 ever entirely forgets it.

Quote from: BalbinusNobody who's taken a shot to the 12 ever entirely forgets it.

I've completely forgotten what all the hit location numbers were, but I can still see that one nestling in the centre of the diagram!