Quote from: JimBobOzMate, take your "roleplaying is dying" doom-saying shit away from here, it doesn't belong here. Where does it belong? Forge or rpg.net, maybe.

Did you read the entire post?

This isn't a "roleplaying is dying" subject, it's a "how do we get retailers that aren't stocking RPGs to stock RPGs" subject.

P&P RPGS aren't dying. They just aren't popular amongst the angsty youth of America, who would rather cry about not hooking up with the hot blonde girl,  rather than take their anger out on a horde of orcs that are raiding human settlements.


Don't diss our pimple faced counterparts, you know? We need them just as much as they need us, because in 10 years (once they get their lives together and realize how much smarter they are than the idiots who dropped out of high school or college) -- they will be the ones GM'ing games on the weekends.

Quote from: JimBobOzSo is pr0n, but that sells extremely well. The difference is that a majority of people are interested in sex; but only a minority of people are interested in pretending to be elves. Same as with golf or model trainsets - people just plain ain't interested. They like other stuff instead.

The future of pen and paper rpgs is as rosey or dim as it ever was. I was first told roleplaying was dying about 1983, when I'd bought a copy of Advanced D&D to complement my Basic D&D; when I read it I realised it was actually a new game. The guy who'd introduced me to Basic assured me that the release of Advanced D&D meant that roleplaying would die, because they were just ripping everyone off, and everyone would realise this and stop gaming.

Then there were the collapse of TSR, magic cards, computer games, White Wolf, pdfs and piracy, et cetera et cetera ad nauseum. And yet here we are. It's bullshit.

Porn sells incredibly well because everyone knows about it, Porn doesn't really have a negative social stigma here in the states (it's everyones dirty little secret, but it's everyones dirty little secret). Also it sells well because everybody knows about it.

As far as pretending t be elves goes. I think WoW's 7 Million subscribers says there is a large group of people who want to play games with elves that kill monsters.

And a slow decline is still a slow decline, every RPG company has reported the "current RPG slump". We just want to specuate on how to get out of it.

I also want to point out, this is THE place to go to cry about the industry dying. Whether it's Pundit talking about WW almost destroyed RPGS or High book costs almost destroyed RPGs or Sett telling us it's the Moral subtext of play that disinterests people in the hobby.

On the other hand, while I certainly don't believe the RPG industry is *dying*, when was it ever a major success?


I mean, I wasn't exactly alive in the 1970's, but was D&D ever as popular as say, Super Mario Bros. ?

Quote from: KrakaJakI also want to point out, this is THE place to go to cry about the industry dying. Whether it's Pundit talking about WW almost destroyed RPGS or High book costs almost destroyed RPGs or Sett telling us it's the Moral subtext of play that disinterests people in the hobby.

That is an accurate representation of their points of view, but their views are not shared by a majority of posters here. We think they're crazy. RPGPundit is locked into saying crazy things because he's typecast himself and that gets a reaction, and lots of posts making nice big threads. And Settembrini is just Prussian, what do you expect.

Quote from: Kashell[...] was D&D ever as popular as say, Super Mario Bros?

Zigackly right!

Elvis memorabilia is a bigger industry than pen and paper roleplaying games. Sad but true.

Don't be too sad. I don't where it comes from, this crazy idea that the entire world should be interested in whatever our own hobby is. I mean, who cares? There are shitloads of gamers out there... like I said, by my own stupidity I imploded my game group, losing three out of four of the players last Tuesday. Tomorrow I'll have the remaining one, plus another, plus a guy new to roleplaying (but he likes fantasy novels and computer rpgs, and likes a beer with friends and a chat, so it's a good bet he'll enjoy roleplaying around a game table), so that's three - without my bothering to advertise the game*. And then next week a fourth is coming back from skiing in Canada, so we'll have a fourth.

If you're willing to GM a game, and are at all good at it, then unless you're lazy (won't go looknig for players), a loser (put players off) or extraordinarily unlucky (live in a town of 100 people), then you'll find plenty of players. Okay, they may not all be roleplaying geniuses, but they also won't be The Fish That John West Rejects, if you know what I mean.

But yeah, I know.... DOOM!

Bollocks!

*I have actually advertised it, but only a few hours ago, and no responses yet.

Quote from: Kester PelagiusDid you read the entire post?

This isn't a "roleplaying is dying" subject, it's a "how do we get retailers that aren't stocking RPGs to stock RPGs" subject.

JimBob always responds with remarkable aggression to any post which, even tangentially, suggests that the rpg industry may be in trouble at all.

No idea why, every industry professional who comments says it is and I suspect they ain't all lying, but on this particular topic he always goes off the deep end.

Quote from: BalbinusJimBob always responds with remarkable aggression to any post which, even tangentially, suggests that the rpg industry may be in trouble at all.

I react with scorn to any deliberate absurdity. This is just something that comes up again and again and again over the years. Roleplaying has been dying for so long that I'm starting to think it's fucking immortal.

Quote from: BalbinusNo idea why, every industry professional who comments says it is and I suspect they ain't all lying, but on this particular topic he always goes off the deep end.

Almost every businessman says that his business is struggling. If that businessman is a writer or artist, they tend to whinge even more. The roleplaying industry just brings together two of the professions which have the loudest whingers - writers and artists. I talk to a lot of writers, all of them claim nobody's reading anymore. Fuck knows what all those books in Borders and K-Mart and a zillion little bookstores are, then. And artists - fuck, those guys have been whinging since Leonardo, probably before him, too.

You know what the future of pen and paper RPGs is?


That's right. Movies with dwarves with *really* fake red beards.


...and well, probably more P&P RPGs.

Quote from: Kashell...and well, probably more P&P RPGs.

My God ... it's so crazy it just might work!

Quote from: KrakaJakI work at Borders, D&D Books and other RPGs are classified as Sci-Fi/Fantasy Fiction. Our file system for them has them all over the place (for example, the author of the book is sometimes D&D and sometimes the first author alphabetically or sometimes Monte Cooke-even if he had nothing to do with the book).

Really?  Wierd.  Everywhere big bookstore I can find in my local area has a dedicated RPGs section ... usually an entire rack of shelves loaded top to bottom.  Barnes and Noble (multiple locations), Books-a-Million, Borders ... I think the only bookstore near me that doesn't have a full rack of RPGs is the local non-chain bookshop, Olssons.  They're more into full racks of funky unheard-of music (a prospect I also approve!)

Strange how the same chain can have such different behavior from branch to branch.  Stranger still how all the bookstores in my area can have the same (apparently atypical) behavior.  I guess I'm just lucky!

WOW is the future of tabletop RPGs, if you're talking about anything above the fold.  All of the fun, none of the work, and far more convenient.  I get more bang for my buck from WOW than I do for any TRPG.  Below the fold?  That's a different answer, and the answer is still "D&D, now and forever."

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerWOW is the future of tabletop RPGs

Except for the tabletop part...

Quote from: TonyLBI guess I'm just lucky!

Yeah, Tony, you are. :brood: My local Borders/barnes & Noble situation (in Portland, OR) is a lot closer to Krakajak's description. And we've only one actual "hobby" store that I know of, which is basically a huge superstore of model trains and planes with one RPG aisle.

I guess there are some more dedicated hobby shops in other nearby towns, like Salem or Aloha, but that's about it. Several Portland comic shops do carry RPGs, but that's hardly their main focus. There's nowhere to go with, like gaming tables and regular activities and staff who actually know something about RPGs. Not that the placesI mentioned are bad places, just not really good for the RPG side of things.

As far as the :devil: DOOM :devil:, I dunno, it doesn't seem much different than when I was younger. It'd be great if there was a dedicated RPG venue in P-town, and better (more varied) bookstore presence, or whatever. But we've never really had that to my knowledge. That said, I didn't really read "Doom" into Kester's post.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerWOW is the future of tabletop RPGs, if you're talking about anything above the fold.  All of the fun, none of the work, and far more convenient.  I get more bang for my buck from WOW than I do for any TRPG.  Below the fold?  That's a different answer, and the answer is still "D&D, now and forever."

I have no idea what the hell you just said. What does "above the fold" mean? :confused:

Peace,
-Joel

Quote from: MelinglorI have no idea what the hell you just said. What does "above the fold" mean? :confused:

"The fold" is newspaper jargon that refers to daily newspapers that are folded in half before stacking for delivery to distribution outlets.  The top half of a page is above the fold, and that's where the big stories--the ones that the editors deem to matter most--go, and this translates into visibility amongst the population.  The rest is below the fold, with the opposite results much of the time.  (To be clear, this is often specific to the front page of the main section--what you see on the stands--though it's applicable to the front of every section.)

Applied generally, as I did above, "the fold" is the line of demarcation that splits a field between that which is within the perception of the population and what is not.  That which is above the fold is easily found, enough that you need only be passively aware to know of it to any useful degree; what's below the fold takes active effort to seek out, learn about and become familiar with because it's not within mainstream society's field of view.