Quote from: beejazzI'd also advise that you poke out those "I"s. Just doesn't sound right to me, but then that may just be me.

My sense of it now is that it's mostly what I want to say, but just needs to be toned down a bit.   Can do.  And take out some, or all, perhaps, of the "I" stuff.  Ok.   I think I was imagining 12 to 15 year olds who haven't played RPGs before reading it.  I don't know why exactly I was thinking that I should write it for that audience, but ... there you have it.   Thanks for the advice.  Much obliged.  

Agree with all the previous stuff...

Perhaps it might read a little easier if you started with the settings related pieces and enthuse about what experiences the players and GM will have and then describe the mechanics. As it's a core rules, you don't want to dwell on the setting too much but it gives the reader a mind set.

Hope that helps. Intros are tricky things - slipperly and difficult to gain a good hold on!

Want to PM me VB?

Quote from: Rob LangAgree with all the previous stuff...

Perhaps it might read a little easier if you started with the settings related pieces and enthuse about what experiences the players and GM will have and then describe the mechanics. As it's a core rules, you don't want to dwell on the setting too much but it gives the reader a mind set.

Hope that helps. Intros are tricky things - slipperly and difficult to gain a good hold on!

Right.  At the moment the way it reads is that the Settings stuff is the after thought, in that I talk about the core rules, and then, because I think most people are going to want to know if there is a setting associated to the game, whether or not I intend to publish anything about that.  The answer is yes, I do, but not right away, and probably not for some time since that's a complicated subject.  

But I wanted to express that there actually *is* a setting to Elthos, and that I will publish something about it, albeit not right away.  My feeling based on other feedback is that it is better to just get stuff out into the public as soon as I can instead of trying to create the entire project in a one giant big bang release... since that will just mean that this project will go on for who-knows-how-long.   So my thinking is that the Core Rules book for the mini-system can go out first, and make it's little splash down (given the enormous quantity of new games coming online I'm not expecting the ODS rules alone to make a huge impression), and then go on to publish the other aspects (the web application, the setting, etc) as time permits and do a slow but steady build up.   Well, that's my current plan, anyway.

So you're saying that for the intro I might want to put the verbiage about the setting before my description of the core rules, eh?   Ok, that's an interesting idea.  That way it ends on a high note of "This is what you have!", rather than the setting stuff, which essentially says, "and this is what you'll get later!"   Do I get your drift?  

And yup, I didn't figure the Intro would be so tricky, but it is!  LOL.  

Quote from: gleichmanI'd be a little less "This is great, give up sliced bread for it" and a bit more, here's what you have in your hands. They've already bought it after all.

This is a good point.  A much-abbreviated form of sales pitch may go on the back of the book, but the intro should be a more objective statement.  Beejazz is also onto something when he suggests removing the personal pronoun from the introduction.  Again, this may be getting at a more objective statement about the game itself.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThis is a good point.  A much-abbreviated form of sales pitch may go on the back of the book, but the intro should be a more objective statement.  Beejazz is also onto something when he suggests removing the personal pronoun from the introduction.  Again, this may be getting at a more objective statement about the game itself.

!i!

Ok this is all excellent feedback.   Thank you!   I'll try to do a revision and maybe post it again to get a final verdict.  

Also, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?

Quote from: gleichmanExample of play? I rather doubt it.

Personally I really like good examples of play - like the one in the main CoC rulebook, or the 1E DMG. Something which gives you the platonic ideal of what the designers think an absolutely archetypal session of the game in question would look like tells me more than a fat book of designer's notes ever could.

Quote from: WarthurPersonally I really like good examples of play - like the one in the main CoC rulebook, or the 1E DMG. Something which gives you the platonic ideal of what the designers think an absolutely archetypal session of the game in question would look like tells me more than a fat book of designer's notes ever could.

That sounds fair enough, but I assume you don't mean you'd like to see that in the one page Introduction... do you?

Quote from: VBWyrdeThat sounds fair enough, but I assume you don't mean you'd like to see that in the one page Introduction... do you?

Play examples are always wonderful.

But they don't belong in the introduction. They either belong with the rules they are an example of, or at near the end in it's own "Example of Play" section.

Quote from: gleichmanPlay examples are always wonderful.

But they don't belong in the introduction. They either belong with the rules they are an example of, or at near the end in it's own "Example of Play" section.

Agreed.  I do have a play example in the rules book.  However, it's really not Setting focused, but rules focused instead.  While I do have a bit of color in the example, that color is pretty sparce.   I'm thinking that real play examples should probably go in the Settings book, rather than in my mini-system rules book.    Does that make sense?  Conversely, another thought that comes to mind is to publish play examples on the website...?   Yah?

Quote from: VBWyrdeAlso, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?

I think you'd be best served if they were published together if at all possible. At least these days.

I'd like to think that rules were about by themselves, but I think I'm nearly alone in that opinion.

Quote from: VBWyrdeAgreed.  I do have a play example in the rules book.  However, it's really not Setting focused, but rules focused instead.  While I do have a bit of color in the example, that color is pretty sparce.   I'm thinking that real play examples should probably go in the Settings book, rather than in my mini-system rules book.    Does that make sense?  Conversely, another thought that comes to mind is to publish play examples on the website...?   Yah?

Rule examples are all I'm looking for in a rulebook.

Quote from: VBWyrdeAlso, in case anyone has any thoughts on the idea of publishing the core rules and later on the setting book - given it might take me a year to put the setting book together... does it make sense to publish the core rules first, and then later publish the setting book?

This is something of a critical balancing act.  On the one hand, you have the enthusiasm right now to get your final product done, out there in people's hands, and gathering feedback.  Wait too long to get the core book out, and you might become discouraged and shelve it prematurely.  On the other hand, when you get it into people's hands, they're going to want more in fairly short order.  Wait too long to get the next product out, and your readers may have lost interest in the mean time.

What's the popular wisdom I've heard before? One on deck and two in the queue?  Basically, for an on-going game line, when you release the core rules, you should have three supplements already written -- one ready for immediate follow-up release, and two in layout/pre-production.

!i!

Quote from: gleichmanRule examples are all I'm looking for in a rulebook.

Well written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though.  For instance, the original LBB Traveller had virtually no examples, but was written and organised well.  On the other hand, Mongoose's new Traveller (the playtest documents, at least) were rife with examples, in some sections outweighing the rules text almost 2-to-1.  Resist the urge to pad content with examples.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWell written rules don't need much in the way of examples of play, though.

Depends upon the rules.