I'm considering running a game of Blood! RPG but it is a really complicated system and I do prefer rules lite.

I was wondering what is the most complex system you have ever run and could you give us an idea of how complicated?

Can we go through the thread without mentioning FATAL please?

TBH my own full-fat Omnifray... but it's not quite as much more complicated than other games as people would suggest...

One complicated game I played back in the day, is Aftermath.

All kinds of stuff in chargen and actual play.  Hmmm ... for starters:

- Initiative based on a time grid.
- Hitting and armor on specific parts of the body.
- Allocating points for skills.
- Lots of tables.

I dunno, I ran some Dare Devils and it wasn't so bad.  Tried to do Lands of Adventure before I knew how to do the math in it properly, that probably would have gone better a few more years on, I'm thinking Alternity's damage system was the most tangled mess I've ever tried to play.

On the face of it Blood!'s damage is quite simple. THEN you realise you have to track Blood Points, Energy Points and every time someone rolls a Critical you have to look up a D100 table and roll on it.

So why not just run WoD? Because Blood is about visceral horror. The real gore. The rules may be complex but they have no pretentions of realism and are very entertaining when characters get killed in gory ways.

Exalted 2e I guess...but it's still easier to improvise with than D&D 3e.

Overall, though, I try to avoid mathematically complicated systems (because it's quite pointless calculation masturbation) and prefer conceptually interesting ones.

Rolemaster.

That would be either AD&D First Edition (RAW and houseruled), Warhammer FRP First Edition, MERP, or Midgard.

But I guess AD&D with its diverse subsystems was the most complex of them.

Champions 4th ED in a dimension jumping campaign.

I used to run Rolemaster all the time, but I don't actually consider it *that* complicated. You just needed to know where to look for the tables you needed, and non-combat actions used one. Knowing where to find all but bizarre and uncommon spell lists was pretty intuitive.

All in all, I think its alleged complexity was overstated.

In some ways, I think 3.0/3.5/Pathfinder was/is more complex. There were certainly more situation-specific rules. Even the Rolemaster companions usually just added classes, spell lists and options that would be clear to you if you chose to use them.

I suppose if you felt a need to memorize the rules it would be a nightmare. I've never been that type of GM. I usually just get a good handle on them, and try to get a benevolent rules lawyer to keep things honest and look up minutia if necessary.

Quote from: Monster Manuel;427071I used to run Rolemaster all the time, but I don't actually consider it *that* complicated. You just needed to know where to look for the tables you needed, and non-combat actions used one. Knowing where to find all but bizarre and uncommon spell lists was pretty intuitive.

All in all, I think its alleged complexity was overstated.

I don't. But I knew I'd get this response. :cool:

For me, it wasn't playing that was such a pain (though cross referencing tables on different pages during combat for different weapons was not my favorite.) It was creation and leveling. All the different points costs, and in different situations you could by multiple levels, some of which would be more expensive. And then, those points don't go straight to a modifier, they get applied to a table first.

And then a new version came along that made it more complicated in ways that I can't be bothered to remember right now.

Yeah, I'm gonna stand by it being more complicated that 3e or PF.

actual group play,not just read/solo...that would be "Riddle of Steel". Not interested in playing again but had a bit o fun with it.

I'll throw in with Riddle of Steel also.  It's not that the game is inherently complex the dice mechanics are fairly straight forward.  The complexity comes in running it in a group when it comes to combat.  The nature of the combat system really works when all the combats are run as solo duels.  Where it gets complex is managing all these solo duels.  It doesn't really flow well in the traditional round by round I-go-U-go form of play.

Also as a GM while you get a lot of player input in how they want their characters to develop based on their spiritual traits.  The reality of blending them all together so that people level up relatively easy can also be burdensome.

Quote from: Monster Manuel;427071I used to run Rolemaster all the time, but I don't actually consider it *that* complicated. You just needed to know where to look for the tables you needed, and non-combat actions used one. Knowing where to find all but bizarre and uncommon spell lists was pretty intuitive.

All in all, I think its alleged complexity was overstated.

I just copied down the relevant information from the tables onto the character sheet.  It saved a lot of time from having to look up stuff repeatedly.

good points kryyst.
I did more 1-1 play than group and in those cases it wasn't so bad
With all the various wound charts.and tracking blood loss
etal...just to many rolls to accomplish anything with a larger group but an admirable attampt non the less!
The magic system was a bit fiddly as well but some cool ideas!
System need to be slimmed down for more flow in group play IMO.