Formula Problem with high level damage

ShadowSorceror · December 27, 2013, 04:12:29 AM

I'm in the process of making my own RPG, so I have a damage formula which seems to work fine but as the game goes on you will increase in level, attack and defense, so will the enemy's, so lets say its much later in the game and all those stats on you and your opponent are doubled, the damage would be pretty much the same as the beginning, but the thing is health increases too, so battles would just take longer and longer, I need a way to make damage increase so that relatively battles still take roughly same amount of time.
any suggestions?

S'mon · December 27, 2013, 04:53:29 AM

+1 damage per 3 levels.

Or whatever rate fits best with the numbers you use. If hit probability remains constant, then a level boost giving x2 hit points should give x2 damage if you want fights to take the same amount of time. In practice you may find it works better that base damage scales slower, to take account of boosts from magic weapons etc.

Bloody Stupid Johnson · December 27, 2013, 04:56:59 AM

Double the damage as well? (I'm guessing your formula uses attack/defense difference in some way; you might need to add an escalating base amount as well?)
Otherwise you could keep health the same, instead of having it go up, or add extra attacks/round as well, though eventually more dice rolling would probably bog down the game a bit.

soltakss · December 27, 2013, 06:06:57 AM

Any system where health increases as the character gets older will run into this problem.

The solutions may be:
1. Don't increase Health as a character gains more experience (Rationale: The character is physically the same, so why much healthier)
2. Higher level characters do more damage, depending on level/experience (Rationale: They know where to hit, have trained)
3. Combat just takes longer (Rationale: A duel between two master swordsmen takes longer to find an opening etc)

My preference would be (1), but that's because my gaming experience is coloured by RQ/BRP-style games.

Exploderwizard · December 27, 2013, 12:53:12 PM

Quote from: ShadowSorceror;718703I'm in the process of making my own RPG, so I have a damage formula which seems to work fine but as the game goes on you will increase in level, attack and defense, so will the enemy's, so lets say its much later in the game and all those stats on you and your opponent are doubled, the damage would be pretty much the same as the beginning, but the thing is health increases too, so battles would just take longer and longer, I need a way to make damage increase so that relatively battles still take roughly same amount of time.
any suggestions?

Are you actually trying to emulate the 'always fighting orcs' feel for the game?

If attack, defense, vitality, and damage all scale up evenly with each other then that is what you have. There is no need to even have higher levels because everything will feel exactly the same except with larger numbers.

There are plenty of games like this already.

Panjumanju · December 27, 2013, 01:16:02 PM

If everything increases with level - health, damage, et al, then there is no point to the game. That's not a sense of progress, if all the numbers have the same proportion just they're all higher. That's, at best, the illusion of progress.

My chief suggestion was mentioned earlier – don't increase health. Why should heroes become more healthy as they progress? It will make potential combat a more frightening as the game goes on, the "stakes" increasing. Character death therefore becomes more meaningful if lower levels are safer and there is increasing danger.

//Panjumanju

Archangel Fascist · December 27, 2013, 01:26:03 PM

Quote from: ShadowSorceror;718703I'm in the process of making my own RPG, so I have a damage formula which seems to work fine but as the game goes on you will increase in level, attack and defense, so will the enemy's, so lets say its much later in the game and all those stats on you and your opponent are doubled, the damage would be pretty much the same as the beginning, but the thing is health increases too, so battles would just take longer and longer, I need a way to make damage increase so that relatively battles still take roughly same amount of time.
any suggestions?

How are you doing attacks and defenses? Is this a d20 game, a dice pool game, a d% game, what?

Bloody Stupid Johnson · December 27, 2013, 08:53:12 PM

Quote from: Panjumanju;718777If everything increases with level - health, damage, et al, then there is no point to the game. That's not a sense of progress, if all the numbers have the same proportion just they're all higher. That's, at best, the illusion of progress.

My chief suggestion was mentioned earlier – don't increase health. Why should heroes become more healthy as they progress? It will make potential combat a more frightening as the game goes on, the "stakes" increasing. Character death therefore becomes more meaningful if lower levels are safer and there is increasing danger.

//Panjumanju

If you like gritty street-level games fixed HP may be the way to go. If however your game concept is you want PCs to eventually beat up demon lords from the back of their space dragon, more HPs is a simple way to avoid PCs turning into pink mist thrice a session, unrealistic as it is.

Panjumanju · December 27, 2013, 09:06:51 PM

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;718881If you like gritty street-level games fixed HP may be the way to go. If however your game concept is you want PCs to eventually beat up demon lords from the back of their space dragon, more HPs is a simple way to avoid PCs turning into pink mist thrice a session, unrealistic as it is.

But if everything is advancing - HP, damage, whatever passes for AC - on the very same scale, then there is no difference between fighting a demon lord at a high level using your super power sword, and a rat in a sewer with a rusty knife at first. There's just the illusion of progress, and not even a very convincing one. I find that kind of play deeply unsatisfying.

//Panjumanju

Bloody Stupid Johnson · December 27, 2013, 10:33:21 PM

Quote from: Panjumanju;718882But if everything is advancing - HP, damage, whatever passes for AC - on the very same scale, then there is no difference between fighting a demon lord at a high level using your super power sword, and a rat in a sewer with a rusty knife at first. There's just the illusion of progress, and not even a very convincing one. I find that kind of play deeply unsatisfying.

//Panjumanju

If the world is automatically set to level up at the same time, then yes it is all pretty pointless. I think the problem isn't so much with the mathematics of the advancement though, more the assumption that players will always be fighting 'level appropriate' monsters.

Panjumanju · December 27, 2013, 11:40:17 PM

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;718894If the world is automatically set to level up at the same time, then yes it is all pretty pointless. I think the problem isn't so much with the mathematics of the advancement though, more the assumption that players will always be fighting 'level appropriate' monsters.

I agree that's a problem. It's like playing Final Fantasy. PC: "You know, it's funny - the farther away we get from my little home town, the more powerful the monsters are."

//Panjumanju

Spinachcat · December 28, 2013, 01:48:57 AM

Quote from: ShadowSorceror;718703I'm in the process of making my own RPG, so I have a damage formula which seems to work fine

We need to hear more about your damage formula and the goals of your RPG.

My initial consideration is this: Instant Kills. If a PC gets a solid hit against an NPC of a lower level, the NPC must make a Save vs. Death. Or maybe, the NPC just dies, making really tough PCs capable of one-shot kills against the BBEG's henchmen and monsters, and only having big-long-tough fights against major bad guys and monsters.