Okay, I've been thinking about a game system that I would be comfortable with for the past few months and I really want a game that can't be broken. I know its an undertaking and i bet a good portion of people won't like a game that completely inhibits powergaming/munchkins and optimizations while providing options, but thats because i feel the majority of people have been trained (through D&D and other games) to think that they need to do that to make a viable character. Which is bunk.


Stats
Have levels, 1-5

Intelligence aka Memory, Quick Thinking
Strength aka Lifting/Pulling, Endurance
Focus aka Composure, Concentration
Agility aka Manual Dexterity, Quick Movement
Perception aka Intuition, Empathy
Presence aka Charisma, Savy

Skills
Have no levels, are generic (Unarmed Combat) or specific (Karate Punch)

Powers
Have levels, 1-10, some powers would be 6-10 like SuperStats

Stats would be using this list
1 Weak
2 Average
3 Above Average
4 Far Above Average
5 Human Max
6 Low Superhuman
7 Medium Superhuman
8 High Superhuman
9 Superhuman Max
10 Cosmic/God-like

While Powers would be using this one for their levels (dont yet have the levels listed out heh, have thinkersblock on what to call the levels)
1 Very little power
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10 Infinite Cosmic Power

Rolling will be 1d10+stat+stunt value vs 1d10+stat+stunt value or TN

Stunts

Stunting skills give a +1 if stunting a generic skill or +2 if stunting a specific skill

Stunting powers give a +1 if the use of the power is rather basic, +2 if the use is relatively medium difficulty, +3 if the use is near max of the power's ability
Example:

      Superstrength level 5 lets you lift 500tons. Stunting Superstrength to hit someone or to lift a couple of tons would be +1, it would be a +2 if trying to deal with around 250tons or thereabouts, and +3 if dealing with near max or 500tons


Stunts can only be used once per power per combat.

If the opponent has the same power you are using to stunt, they get to stunt with it against your stunt, for free, and are able to re-stunt with it again during combat (though you will get to use your power to stunt against their use of it for free as well).
Example:

      Bob stunts Superstrength at Sue by throwing a 250ton object while flying, giving him a +2 Stunt Bonus. Sue has flight as well and doesn't want the object to simply miss her, because that would drop below and damage stuff, so she flies at the object and is able to stunt with the Superstrength that she has for free (she is still able to stunt with Superstrength again later, though that will give Bob a free use in it as well). She gets a +3 Stunt Bonus since its going to take much more force to break up that 250ton object into dust than it takes to throw it.


So Bob would be rolling 1d10+stat+2 while Sue would be rolling 1d10+stat+3

Skills can be Stunts as well, on top of Power Stunts. Generic Skill Stunts are not limited, while Specific Skills can only be Stunted twice per combat per Specialty.
Example:

      Bob, using Flight, flys around the city to disengage 6 bombs. Bob has the Skill Demolitions, but has a Specialty in Electronic Bombs, meaning that he would only get a +1 to his roll if they were simple TNT or were engaged through a power, while he would receive a +2 to his roll if the bombs were needing their red wires cut, so to speak. Now, perhaps Bob has a way to freeze things, and decides to use that to freeze the bombs instead of cutting their wires. He could Stunt with his Frost Breath for a +1 since freezing an inanimate object is rather minor and get his Skill Stunt bonus on top of that (if the bombs were attached to robots he would have gotten a +2 from Frost Breath since they would be moving, or a +3 from Frost Breath if they were attached to mundane people because a failed roll would mean that person would be frozen and that would be rather un-heroic). If Bob was fast enough to traverse the city in 1 round, this would be just one roll, if he was not fast enough, then there would be multiple rolls and he would need to Stunt with a different power on the second roll, perhaps Superstrength.


You could even Stunt with a Stat.
Example:

      Stunting Presence with using Superstrength to make you look more impressive than you really are, though I am not sure on the bonus this would give... probably a +1.




I would like to have less stats as possible, but I don't really want one single stat to control too many powers, like Body controlling Superstrength, Speed, Flight. This way, depending on how you were using the power, it would depend on that to determine which Stat you were using. For example, while Swimming through a submerged mine field would take Agility, Swimming into a deep chasm in the deep ocean would take Strength. Shooting a blast of energy might be Intelligence if you are trying a trick shot, Focus if you are taking careful aim, or Presence if you are trying to make the blast look as powerful as possible by blowing apart some of the scenery to look intimidating.

Power levels would determine what, exactly, you can do with said power (like Flash would have a Superspeed of 10, since he can go back in time and do all sorts of shit, effectively turning Superspeed at level 10 into a Dynamic Power of sorts) while your Stats would determine how effective you are at controlling your powers (if a speedster had low Agility, he might not be able to use his speed to fix machines quickly or to type quickly).

Yeah, I'm rather liking how this is shaping up...

Stats would increase cumulatively per level, thinking of double every level: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, ect.
Powers would increase cumulatively per level as well, but not by double... thinking of increasing them by a specific number depending on the power/usefulness of the power, like if a power was being raised by an additional 2 per level, it would look like: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, ect. Or maybe swap them and raise stats by 2 per level cumulatively and raise powers by double every level... hmm... unsure about this aspect. No, having Stats raise by double makes the more sense, since stats SHOULD be expensive, since they can work for every power.

Now, powers are going to look much like they do in Tri-Stat dX with the PMV costs starting at 1 point at level 1 and making it increase by 2 per level cumulatively: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, ect. Since it should not cost 10 points to be able to affect 10 Million people with 1 single roll, I think increasing the cost of PMV's make the most sense, but I am unsure if it should cost 100 points for a level 10 PMV, as it would under the way I am suggesting. I could make it increase my 1 cumulatively, lowering the cost of a level 10 PMV to 50... I am just unsure if the price is worth the value gained. Oh well, I will work on the costs and balance of the powers I think before I get to worried about PMV's since I plan on making everything as balanced as possible with no way to "optimize" or anything.

Anyways, what do you guys think?

Hang on...I'm a little confused over the stunting thing. So the stunt bonus applies to the target number roll, meaning +3 is bad ?  But in your Sue vs. Bob example, it looks like Bob's rolling with the +3 and that's good though ?? (in the super strength item breaking example).

Also...when you say "stats increase cumulatively per level" you mean purchase cost ?? (Doesn't seem to mesh with paragraph below, but I don't know what else you could mean).

I get a general feeling the +d10 roll mechanic may not work with your 1-10 power rating scale, Unleemeted Cosmic Powerz! can be kind of boned with a bad roll.

OK hope this helps.
BSJ.

I don't see how this system prevents twinks from power gaming.

Strength +
Focus +

Unarmed Combat
Karate Punch

Super Human Strength
Body Weapon

If I just keep picking things that all add to the same total, I'm going to get oddly good at it.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;395434Hang on...I'm a little confused over the stunting thing. So the stunt bonus applies to the target number roll, meaning +3 is bad ?  But in your Sue vs. Bob example, it looks like Bob's rolling with the +3 and that's good though ?? (in the super strength item breaking example).

Also...when you say "stats increase cumulatively per level" you mean purchase cost ?? (Doesn't seem to mesh with paragraph below, but I don't know what else you could mean).

I get a general feeling the +d10 roll mechanic may not work with your 1-10 power rating scale, Unleemeted Cosmic Powerz! can be kind of boned with a bad roll.

OK hope this helps.
BSJ.

No, the Stunt bonus would apply to your roll, sorry if I made that hard to understand.

Yeah, purchase cost would raise per level, but i see that I worded it very poorly, and my example was bad. Actually, as I try to explain it better, I can see that what I had in mind isn't actually working how I want it to.

Thanks, it did help. Helped me see how a few of my ideas were rather crap lol.

Quote from: Cranewings;395444I don't see how this system prevents twinks from power gaming.

Strength +
Focus +

Unarmed Combat
Karate Punch

Super Human Strength
Body Weapon

If I just keep picking things that all add to the same total, I'm going to get oddly good at it.

I can see where that might be thought of, but I dont think you are quite getting at where i am coming from, or I am explaining it poorly. The basic bonus to any given roll will be Stat+Skill, which will be 1-10+1. If you have another power that can be Stunted, you can add another +1 through +3 to that roll. If you have a Specialty in the skill that works with what you are doing, you can Stunt it and get another +1. These Stunts can only be done once per session per power and specialty skill. I also am looking at points for a beginning character to possibly be able to get a 10 in stat or power at the expense of getting basically nothing else by average human stats an no other powers.

But, I hear what you are saying, and thank you for commenting, I will work on that problem. Already have some ideas on how to fix a few things.

Hmm...

Okay, a few have commented about the bonus from stats might be too much, so i am thinking about the following to modify it:

1 Weak [gives a -4 to your roll]
2 Average [gives a -3 to your roll]
3 Above Average [gives a -2 to your roll]
4 Far Above Average [gives a -1 to your roll]
5 Human Max [gives no bonus or penalty]
6 Low Superhuman [+1]
7 Medium Superhuman [+2]
8 High Superhuman [+3]
9 Superhuman Max [+4]
10 Cosmic/God-like [+5]

So, now rolls would be at a max of +10 (stat+skill+power stunt+skill specialty). It must be remembered that power stunts and skill specialties can only be used once per combat per power and skill specialty.

As far as PMV's, I think that i have figured out a way to fix it... to have no set PMV's for any given power and let them be user defined. For example, if you had Teleport at level 5 and at that level it allowed you to teleport 500 miles (lets say, for argument's sake, that each level gives a 100mile range). If you wanted to take 5 people with you on your teleports, you would need to lower another aspect of your power, such as the range or the skill (effective power level). Say you decide to lower your skill in the power to a level 3 from level 5 and lowered your range from 500 miles to 200 miles, you could increase the number of people the power lets you teleport (just yourself) from 0 additional passengers to 5 additional passengers. Since this would be user defined, it would all be up to the GM on what things count as power aspects for each power, though the book might list a few for each power for sake of ease.

With teleport, I balanced it by writing a slew of teleport related abilities you have to take ahead of time. The problem with teleport is that the main tactical advantage you get from it appears when you can teleport about 20'. If the game practically gives you that for free, even better.

With powers that provide some massive tactical benefit, you need something to prevent people from dipping. Lets say Invulnerability can be taken at several different levels, the first of which makes you immune to guns, the last of which makes you immune to comets.

If someone takes one rank of teleport and one rank of invulnerability, suddenly they can teleport 20' and are immune to guns. Good deal if they put the rest of their points into being god at shooting. Now you can never close range with him and you can't shoot him, but he shoots you.

That is a really tame, normal point buy character.

Quote from: Cranewings;395641With teleport, I balanced it by writing a slew of teleport related abilities you have to take ahead of time. The problem with teleport is that the main tactical advantage you get from it appears when you can teleport about 20'. If the game practically gives you that for free, even better.

With powers that provide some massive tactical benefit, you need something to prevent people from dipping. Lets say Invulnerability can be taken at several different levels, the first of which makes you immune to guns, the last of which makes you immune to comets.

If someone takes one rank of teleport and one rank of invulnerability, suddenly they can teleport 20' and are immune to guns. Good deal if they put the rest of their points into being god at shooting. Now you can never close range with him and you can't shoot him, but he shoots you.

That is a really tame, normal point buy character.

That is true. I mean, they could Teleport and Stunt their Invulnerability to be immune from bullets if they were Teleporting into the middle of a gun fight, or use their Invulnerability and Stunt their Teleport for the same reason, which would only work twice in a given combat, and would only net a +1 at level 1 for each power for the Stunts.

And they would need to roll for their power use...

But I get your point. In a high powered super game, being immune from guns and bullets would be of little importance, but in a gritty game, the character could be rather powerful... which could be fixed with varying character points depending on the specific superhero genre... hmm... of course, like the Batman, taking out a handful of gun-toting crooks should be of little effort.

Just so you know, I truly appreciate that you are taking time to comment and getting me think outside the box that I am in.

Oh...OK have reread and OK I'm clearer what you mean by 'stunting' now! I think I was having terminology issues - I'm more used to the standard difficulty model where doing something crazy gives a penalty, rather than the Exalted/Wushu model where doing crazy things gives you a bonus. In retrospect I can see its like Exalted stunting only with an activation roll.
Maybe I was thinking of Power Stunts in Marvel FASERIP.

So all powers are 1/encounter? I can see character modelling being difficult - 1/day use is more balanced sure, but this means you can't make the Hulk or Superman, someone against who  bullets always bounce off. In this system supers are encouraged to have a diversified power array then (when X-Guy's eye beams run out he switches to his disposable adamantine claws; then when they stop working he tries to power drain his enemy...).   Or, could you effectively buy the power more than once to have multiple uses of it??

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;395781Oh...OK have reread and OK I'm clearer what you mean by 'stunting' now! I think I was having terminology issues - I'm more used to the standard difficulty model where doing something crazy gives a penalty, rather than the Exalted/Wushu model where doing crazy things gives you a bonus. In retrospect I can see its like Exalted stunting only with an activation roll.
Maybe I was thinking of Power Stunts in Marvel FASERIP.

So all powers are 1/encounter? I can see character modelling being difficult - 1/day use is more balanced sure, but this means you can't make the Hulk or Superman, someone against who  bullets always bounce off. In this system supers are encouraged to have a diversified power array then (when X-Guy's eye beams run out he switches to his disposable adamantine claws; then when they stop working he tries to power drain his enemy...).   Or, could you effectively buy the power more than once to have multiple uses of it??

Yeah, Stunting is more akin to the Wushu type of thing.

Powers are not once per encounter, Stunts are. Like, if you had an attack that was basically Wolvie's Claws, then you would roll 1d10+the relevant Stat+Skill+Stunts.

So you could use the Claws for every attack, but if you wanted to Stunt your Superstrength, well, that Stunt is a once per combat type of deal. Stunting gives you a bonus to hit/succeed on your roll as well as giving you additional damage (haven't worked out how I want that to work yet, the damage part at least, though I want to get away from Hit Points and move more towards Knockback and Wounds).