So the universe I'm working on has a lot of races. A lot.

Now, they're all rather distinct in terms of mechanics, aesthetics, and personality.

The bad news is that I've got easily 60 races (this campaign's been going on for a while). These aren't traditional fantasy races, they're kind of different (not that I'm claiming to have created something truly new).

Now, I can cut it down to about 20, but the races are thematically linked, and anything less than twenty and there's a rather conspicuous absence.

So... from an organizational standpoint, how do I go about laying that out? I don't want to put races ten pages in (in the traditional manner) and then overwhelm the new reader. But races are an integral part of RPGs, so you don't want to shunt all the races to an appendix, because that's not really plausible.

Now, I'm definitely going to put the other 40+ races in an appendix or supplement (I'm not really concerned with marketability as much I am readability). But with regards to the twenty races I do want to include in the player's handbook, what are your thoughts?

why not introduce the remaining races via a seris of suppliments that tie them to the parts of the universe youve placed them and supplies information about the systems they call home and any other info thats relevant? kinda like traveller does only in your case pick say 5 or so for each suppliment.

On the subject of the 20 main races why not narrow them down abit more by finding the ones that are similar in stats and listing them together? it'd save page pace if nothing else.

A short paragraph in character gen with a cross reference to a longer entry in a chapter dedicated to the subject of races would be my solution.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;554191why not introduce the remaining races via a seris of suppliments that tie them to the parts of the universe youve placed them and supplies information about the systems they call home and any other info thats relevant? kinda like traveller does only in your case pick say 5 or so for each suppliment.

That was the plan. About two-thirds could be put off for a later supplement.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;554191On the subject of the 20 main races why not narrow them down abit more by finding the ones that are similar in stats and listing them together? it'd save page pace if nothing else.

That might work. I can't really "pare" them down any more.

Quote from: Aos;554208A short paragraph in character gen with a cross reference to a longer entry in a chapter dedicated to the subject of races would be my solution.

That sounds feasible. Maybe include in full the two or three used as examples (you know what I'm talking about, the italic Frank rolls an 8, 7, 15, 16, 12 and 10 and assigns them to... stuff) and then do a quick summary of the rest and full stats and descriptions in an appendix? I like that plan. Thank you!

Quote from: CitizenKeen;554231That sounds feasible. Maybe include in full the two or three used as examples (you know what I'm talking about, the italic Frank rolls an 8, 7, 15, 16, 12 and 10 and assigns them to... stuff) and then do a quick summary of the rest and full stats and descriptions in an appendix? I like that plan. Thank you!

you are welcome.
I've got lots of races in the setting/rules hack I'm putting together, so it's something I've been thinking about as well.

I have to be honest, I'm pretty skeptical that any setting could need twenty distinct, defined races to support its themes, let alone sixty.  I don't think even Talislanta has that many.

I suppose this does depend on what you mean by "race", though, as using it as a synonym for culture or ethnicity would make this make more sense.

Quote from: daniel_ream;554297I have to be honest, I'm pretty skeptical that any setting could need twenty distinct, defined races to support its themes, let alone sixty.  I don't think even Talislanta has that many.

I suppose this does depend on what you mean by "race", though, as using it as a synonym for culture or ethnicity would make this make more sense.

Well, need is a strong word, but they're there and they're thematically linked. Less Talislanta, more Star Wars or Star Trek.

Group A: You've got halflings, humans and giants.

Group B: Then, the entire universe is built on eight elements. There are 8 (or 24) races of elemental descendant, genasi-types: each of the three Group A races infused with each of the elements (so that's 8 distinct grouping of 3 each). These are more than just "people with fire powers" - fire people are distinct emotionally as well as mechanically and build their own style of cultures.

Group C: People infused with animals (so minotaurs and cat-people and the such) - this is by far the biggest grouping.

Group A is kinda untouchable. Group B is pretty easy to wrap your mind around conceptually - I'll just have rules for size (big for giants, small for halflings), plus the "elemental" package. That's eight packages, but an awareness that it's touching three different races. Group C is huge, but I figure six to eight to show off the variety (at least two of each size).

"Packages" are different from race, and admittedly fire giants are only different from fire halflings in terms of size.

But still - 3 in Group A plus 8 in Group B plus 6 in Group C is a total of 17. And that's counting each of the three races under each element as one.

I'm not saying it's impossible to cut them, but I'm not planning on changing fifteen years of universe building just so I can make a book easy to read. Rather, I'm trying to figure out how I can make my book as easy to read as possible without sacrificing the universe.

I figure an appendix is the right way, if only because freed from traditional paper restraints (I'm not selling it, and I'm not printing it), I can just drop a lot of stuff in the Appendix. I think.

If I'm coming across as antagonist or dismissive of any viewpoint that disagrees with me, that's not the intent. I'm trying to get a sense of how others would do this if they were in my shoes, so I'm trying to be receptive. Thank you kindly, all of you, for your feedback. I'll be looking for a lot more in the year to come!

Quote from: daniel_ream;554297I have to be honest, I'm pretty skeptical that any setting could need twenty distinct, defined races to support its themes, let alone sixty.  I don't think even Talislanta has that many.

I suppose this does depend on what you mean by "race", though, as using it as a synonym for culture or ethnicity would make this make more sense.

I was going to say Talisanta but I am unsure how it really has.

@CitizenKeen, what kind of game is this? Sci-fi, Fantasy, Weirdowhacky? Because I can see where Daniel is coming from if it's fantasy but ok, if we're talking species like elementals/elf variants, but if it were sci-fi not a problem.

Quote from: Marleycat;554319I was going to say Talisanta but I am unsure how it really has.

@CitizenKeen, what kind of game is this? Sci-fi, Fantasy, Weirdowhacky? Because I can see where Daniel is coming from if it's fantasy but ok, if we're talking species like elementals/elf variants, but if it were sci-fi not a problem.

Uhh... If WH40K is fantasy tropes with scifi rules, then mine is scifi tropes with fantasy rules?

I often describe it as Spelljammer but not shitty? (No offense to SJ fans, I love me some SJ.)

Talislanta has a lot of races, I'm not sure if its 60, but if you cans squeeze all of them in via a short form, do so. It might be interesting, if bewildering. You'll get hammered for it either way: Not enough/Too many/too many added in supplements.

So just do what YOU like, and be happy about it.

Quote from: CitizenKeen;554326Uhh... If WH40K is fantasy tropes with scifi rules, then mine is scifi tropes with fantasy rules?

I often describe it as Spelljammer but not shitty? (No offense to SJ fans, I love me some SJ.)

Sounds fun I wonder if you could do like 15-20 base races and make the rest into quick templates that are added on top of the base and either adds or changes some of the qualities of the base. That way you could stuff them in the back of the core book if you wanted.

Quote from: Marleycat;554364Sounds fun I wonder if you could do like 15-20 base races and make the rest into quick templates that are added on top of the base and either adds or changes some of the qualities of the base. That way you could stuff them in the back of the core book if you wanted.

Since the comments on another thread indicate that people are okay with the rules being released piecemeal, I think I might put up the minimum races, and then just add more when I add the rest of the rules for higher-level play.

Adding races in subsequent books worked for WotC, after all!