To be successful an rpg needs to be about certain things

David R · January 24, 2007, 06:51:06 AM

Since we are doing the movies/rpgs thing, has there ever been a break out indie game ?

Regards,
David R

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: droogYou forgot Shooting the Moon. But Nicotine Girls and Wuthering Heights aren't even fully published games, so I think you come out behind.

Of the remaining, a couple are less than a year old. None of them have any sort of mass-market presence.

And there's always the possibility that none of these are actually any good as games, and the killer app is yet to come.

How can you tell?

You can't tell, you take a view and accept you might be wrong.

I mean, if a year from now we're all playing Relationships: The Bickering I invite you to quote all this stuff to me. My money is on that not happening though.

David, break out indie game, probably not though I'll think about it. That may have more though to do with marketing spend than anything intrinsic to the games themselves.

droog · January 24, 2007, 06:55:44 AM

Quote from: BalbinusI mean, if a year from now we're all playing Relationships: The Bickering I invite you to quote all this stuff to me. My money is on that not happening though.

I'll bear that in mind, though a year is probably optimistic.

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 07:03:22 AM

Quote from: droogI'll bear that in mind, though a year is probably optimistic.

No worries, whenever. Anyway, I'd be quite pleased to be wrong. The fact I forecast a thing doesn't mean I like the thing I forecast.

Abyssal Maw · January 24, 2007, 08:11:53 AM

Breakout indie games include Dungeons and Dragons (already dominating the market by 1975, despite it being hand-assembled), everything by Palladium.. and Ars Magica, developed by two college roomates named Tweet and Rein*Hagen.

TonyLB · January 24, 2007, 09:41:48 AM

Does it matter to the "blockbuster test" that there are quite a few very popular games that could never, never, be construed as being typical action-oriented blockbusters? I'm thinking, for instance, Ars Magica (as mentioned just above), Paranoia, Amber and Call of Cthulhu.

Yes, these have elements of adventure as described in the first post, but I am really, really hard-pressed to think of any hollywood blockbusters that even approximate their formula.

But, like I said, I'm not sure it matters. I'm still trying to make sure I understand the points being put forward.

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 10:38:51 AM

I'm not sure the blockbuster analogy is holding up as well I had initially thought, so I'll restate without it.

RPGs which are about or which support having adventures of the type commonly seen in action orientated movies or thrillers are disproprortionately likely to see widespread play when compared to rpgs which are about or which support character issues or interpersonal issues.

How's that?

The support bit is to capture generics.

TonyLB · January 24, 2007, 11:48:20 AM

Quote from: BalbinusHow's that?

Seems fine to me.

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 11:56:32 AM

Quote from: TonyLBSeems fine to me.

Cool, any thoughts on my genre thread?

Also, if so, does that have any implications for the possibilities of breakthrough rpgs? I think it does, as it implies that to breakthrough an rpg will cover topics not that different to the ones they already cover.

Then again, I don't believe there will be a breakthrough rpg.

TonyLB · January 24, 2007, 11:59:48 AM

Quote from: BalbinusAlso, if so, does that have any implications for the possibilities of breakthrough rpgs? I think it does, as it implies that to breakthrough an rpg will cover topics not that different to the ones they already cover.

Well, I don't think that's proven. Saying that the action-movie formula is a good one doesn't mean that it's the only one. It might just be the only formula that's been successfully exploited so far.

It's back to that whole "prove a negative" thing, isn't it?

Erik Boielle · January 24, 2007, 12:20:45 PM

QuoteCall of Cthulhu

Ghostbusters

What?

Or Split Second:-

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0105459/trailers-screenplay-E11246-10-2

"We need bigger guns! WE NEED BIGGER FUCKING GUNS!"

:-)

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 12:31:51 PM

Quote from: TonyLBWell, I don't think that's proven. Saying that the action-movie formula is a good one doesn't mean that it's the only one. It might just be the only formula that's been successfully exploited so far.

It's back to that whole "prove a negative" thing, isn't it?

It's definitely not proven, and indeed can't be, it can only be disproved by someone succeeding.

That said, I think it is likely, sufficiently so that I'm not persuaded it's worth people trying to work on games they hope will breakthrough.

PTA is the only one that troubles me, given proper marketing spend I suspect that could break through, I think that could be the game the indie movement has been seeking but nobody in the indie field has a sufficient marketing push.

RPGPundit · January 24, 2007, 12:43:44 PM

Quote from: BalbinusPTA is the only one that troubles me, given proper marketing spend I suspect that could break through, I think that could be the game the indie movement has been seeking but nobody in the indie field has a sufficient marketing push.

I really don't think so. There's a reason why RPGs thus far haven't been made to imitate a TV series in its format. Its something that lessens the sense of immersion, which the Forgies believe to be useless but pretty much everyone else loves.

The whole "TV show" thing was tried several times before, its nothing new, even Advanced Fighting Fantasy did it (of all things!), and every time its failed. People just ignored the TV-show gimmick and played it like a normal game.
And since PTA doesn't actually have a normal game and is all about the fucking TV show, its a failure.

RPGPundit

Balbinus · January 24, 2007, 12:49:20 PM

I struggle in any sense to see PTA as a failure, I've read a lot of actual play threads of it and several of them sounded absolutely fantastic, some of the others likely were too but not to my taste.

Besides, I don't rate it because I think it's new, I rate it because I think it gets it right.

Normal game though, most of the PTA actual play's I've read sound much like a normal game, it's not literally about playing actors in a tv show, it's about having a game structured like a tv show. It's not fallen into that double suspension of disbelief trap that Hong Kong Action Theatre did.

Levi Kornelsen · January 24, 2007, 01:26:16 PM

Quote from: RPGPunditAnd since PTA doesn't actually have a normal game and is all about the fucking TV show, its a failure.

There are enough people who enjoy playing it to please the author. It has turned a profit sufficient to please the author.

By my lights, that makes it a success.