Quote from: MGuy;574427Yes he's ruled. I don't get how I can't relay orders to something with superior hearing like bats but I'd wager they'd go after the bigger target anyway. It's easier (and not just by meta standards it's large, suspended in the air, and can't fly as effectively as they can). What's more he said that their sonar was hampered not negated so they can still tell the general direction of the big ass target which be enough for them to target it. In either case I'm sure something will give. If I have to I'll just summon more. For now I have to complete this set of summoning and then I'll see what the results are.

Your bats are in a Solid Fog cloud that is about 160 feet away, that is why you cannot communicate with them. Sound won't work. They speak Infernal, so you can use a spell to communicate with them if you have one.

EDIT: I should have said that sound won't work unless you get a lot closer.

Quote from: jeff37923;574492Your bats are in a Solid Fog cloud that is about 160 feet away, that is why you cannot communicate with them. Sound won't work. They speak Infernal, so you can use a spell to communicate with them if you have one.

You just invalidated the whole thing Jeff.  We've already established they cannot speak Infernal (despite being from that plane) only Common, can't you read Kaelik?  Now they have a Full Retard point to hang an appeal on.  

Now, the attacking bats have three possible targets due to the concealing nature of the Solid Fog - Panzerkraken, Panzerkraken's mount, and each other (possible).

Panzerkraken has not been hit. Panzerkraken's mount has been hit by one of the Fiendish Dire Bats for 10 points of damage. No Fiendish Dire Bat has struck another.

Panzerkraken has hit the nearest Fiendish Dire Bat for 11 points of damage.

Three more Fiendish Dire Bats have been summoned into the Solid Fog sphere. It is getting crowded in there.

I need a DC 5 Ride check from Panzerkraken to see if he stays onboard the pegasus while it was attacked (the check is low since he has 3 mounted combat oriented feats, and would be used to this).

Next actions? I am assuming that the Fiendish Dire Bats are continuing to attack whatever target is near.

Quote from: CRKrueger;574493You just invalidated the whole thing Jeff.  We've already established they cannot speak Infernal (despite being from that plane) only Common, can't you read Kaelik?  Now they have a Full Retard point to hang an appeal on.  

Kaelik can suck it, I put him on ignore awhile ago because he gibbers like an eight year old on a diet of Red Bull and Pixie Sticks.

An Infernal Dire Bat not speaking Infernal makes no sense to me.

EDIT: I have this image of these Infernal Dire Bats being all scary looking, but having voices that sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Quote from: jeff37923;574497Kaelik can suck it, I put him on ignore awhile ago because he gibbers like an eight year old on a diet of Red Bull and Pixie Sticks.

An Infernal Dire Bat not speaking Infernal makes no sense to me.

Mother-May-I-Magical-Tea-Party-Mother-Fucker y u cokblocin' yo?

(Ok, sorry, I'll let you get on with it. )

Quote from: jeff37923;574496Now, the attacking bats have three possible targets due to the concealing nature of the Solid Fog - Panzerkraken, Panzerkraken's mount, and each other (possible).

Panzerkraken has not been hit. Panzerkraken's mount has been hit by one of the Fiendish Dire Bats for 10 points of damage. No Fiendish Dire Bat has struck another.

Panzerkraken has hit the nearest Fiendish Dire Bat for 11 points of damage.

Three more Fiendish Dire Bats have been summoned into the Solid Fog sphere. It is getting crowded in there.

I need a DC 5 Ride check from Panzerkraken to see if he stays onboard the pegasus while it was attacked (the check is low since he has 3 mounted combat oriented feats, and would be used to this).

Next actions? I am assuming that the Fiendish Dire Bats are continuing to attack whatever target is near.

continuing to move towards the bottom of the cloud, trying to get out of there (it IS getting crowded with 8 large creatures flying in there!)  If we're passing in reach of one I'll make a full attack action against it.

Also, for the purpose of my miss chance rolls, a 20% miss chance means if I roll less than 20...

Ride Check (1d20+12=15)

Attack action (1d100, 1d20+15, 1d8+1d6+6=[89], [6, 15], [6, 2, 6])
Second Attack (1d100, 1d20+10, 1d8+1d6+6=[83], [12, 10], [2, 5, 6])

Remember that the pegasus can attack, too. it can ever do a full attack because he don't need to move, just let himself fall out of the cloud

Quote from: Just Another User;574509Remember that the pegasus can attack, too. it can ever do a full attack because he don't need to move, just let himself fall out of the cloud

He's an NPC, I'll let Jeff handle him.

If the fiendish dire bats haven't used their Smite ability, they should.  Whether the target is good or not, they're not going to be around long enough to care.  They should always use it as soon as possible (fighting to the best of their ability).  

3 Intelligence isn't bright - but it isn't mindless either.  The creature should be clever enough to guess which creature is easier to hit.  Creatures with metal armor are hard to hit.  Creatures that are big are easier to hit.  I don't know Panzerkraken's stats (or his mounts), but I assume that there's a significant difference between AC.  Unless there was something to indicate the mount was more difficult to hit than anticipated, they'd know their attacks would be most effective against it.  

As far as the possibility of the bats attacking each other - it does say they attack Mguy's enemies to the best of their ability, but that to direct them to a specific enemy or to direct them not to attack a specific enemy requires communication.  Any interpretation that has them attacking each other (his allies) is far more restrictive than any I've ever seen at the gaming table.  

Just saying.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574567If the fiendish dire bats haven't used their Smite ability, they should.  Whether the target is good or not, they're not going to be around long enough to care.  They should always use it as soon as possible (fighting to the best of their ability).  

3 Intelligence isn't bright - but it isn't mindless either.  The creature should be clever enough to guess which creature is easier to hit.  Creatures with metal armor are hard to hit.  Creatures that are big are easier to hit.  I don't know Panzerkraken's stats (or his mounts), but I assume that there's a significant difference between AC.  Unless there was something to indicate the mount was more difficult to hit than anticipated, they'd know their attacks would be most effective against it.  

As far as the possibility of the bats attacking each other - it does say they attack Mguy's enemies to the best of their ability, but that to direct them to a specific enemy or to direct them not to attack a specific enemy requires communication.  Any interpretation that has them attacking each other (his allies) is far more restrictive than any I've ever seen at the gaming table.  

Just saying.

While i do think jeff should have them fight mcguy's enemies to the best of their ability, i really don't think a three int creature is always going to go for the easier target. Probably just goes for the closest or most obvious target (or maybe the target that acted more aggressivley). Nor do I think they would have any understanding of armor.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;574571While i do think jeff should have them fight mcguy's enemies to the best of their ability, i really don't think a three int creature is always going to go for the easier target. Probably just goes for the closest or most obvious target (or maybe the target that acted more aggressivley). Nor do I think they would have any understanding of armor.

Since people are putting in their two cents...

I think the mount would be the likely target with it's huge flapping wings and otherwise large size. But frankly the bats likely would consider the rider/mount to be but a single creature and thus the attack could come from any direction (i.e. through the rider).

I'd roll a D6 for each bat, 1-2 rider and 3-6 mount.

Quote from: gleichman;574572Since people are putting in their two cents...

I think the mount would be the likely target with it's huge flapping wings and otherwise large size. But frankly the bats likely would consider the rider/mount to be but a single creature and thus the attack could come from any direction (i.e. through the rider).

I'd roll a D6 for each bat, 1-2 rider and 3-6 mount.

Something like this might work well. 3 isn't mindless but it is still only a point above a dog or ape. Their attacks are going to be a lot more instinctual than thought out.

Either way, they should be attacking the foes of Mcguy (though IMO mcguy should be doing less passenger seat driving here).

Well how was MGuy supposed to know that the DM has ruled that sound doesn't exist in his campaign.

The DC to hear and understand someone yelling from 160ft away is 16 and the bats have a +12 Listen modifier. Obviously they would hear his orders if sound existed.

Quote from: jeff37923;574497Kaelik can suck it, I put him on ignore awhile ago because he gibbers like an eight year old on a diet of Red Bull and Pixie Sticks.

An Infernal Dire Bat not speaking Infernal makes no sense to me.

EDIT: I have this image of these Infernal Dire Bats being all scary looking, but having voices that sound like Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Hilarious.

Ladies and gentlemen of the audience, I am not nerfing the bats. I am taking into account that they have just been summoned into a Solid Fog with the command to attack what is inside. There is going to be a lot of confusion in there, that works against everything in the spell's area of effect - it isn't selective.

I have not had the bats Smite Good yet because according to the description given to me they cannot Detect Good, so they do not automatically know yo use that against them until after one of them attacks, hits, and then realises that the target "tastes like good". The bat that hit the pegasus on the first round will be able to Smite Good on the second, and be able to communicate this to the other seven bats in there.