Quote from: Kaelik;576804Indeed, that would prevent separation. But of course, that also comes with a whole bunch of disadvantages too. Especially when the Wizard's Darkvision wears off and he is blind.

Why waste a spell slot on darkvision when you can use a dwarf or a torch?

Quote from: beejazz;576805Why waste a spell slot on darkvision when you can use a dwarf or a torch?

Because if you use a torch then things besides Bone Devils can see you from far away and get the jump on you. Like Slaads and Demons and such.

And not every single PC is always a dwarf.

Quote from: Kaelik;576804Indeed, that would prevent separation. But of course, that also comes with a whole bunch of disadvantages too. Especially when the Wizard's Darkvision wears off and he is blind.

Mmmh, I don't understand that "especially".

I mean sure, using the rope this would give some disadvantage (well, d'uh! ) and if the wizard darkvision goes off is bad, but why it is especially bad if the two things are combined?

Quote from: Just Another User;576847Mmmh, I don't understand that "especially".

I mean sure, using the rope this would give some disadvantage (well, d'uh! ) and if the wizard darkvision goes off is bad, but why it is especially bad if the two things are combined?

Blind characters move at half speed. You can't really move faster than the slowest person when you are all tied together. Therefore, if everyone is tied together, the Wizard who is blind slows down everyone else.

Quote from: Kaelik;576863Blind characters move at half speed. You can't really move faster than the slowest person when you are all tied together. Therefore, if everyone is tied together, the Wizard who is blind slows down everyone else.

So, are you saying that if they are not tied together they can just let the wizard beyond?

Quote from: Just Another User;576867So, are you saying that if they are not tied together they can just let the wizard beyond?

The Fighter can Charge 60ft and end his turn a larger distance from the Wizard, and then come back to the Wizard when appropriate.

Also, yes, they can leave the Wizard to Dimension Door out while they run away if needed.

Quote from: Kaelik;576878The Fighter can Charge 60ft and end his turn a larger distance from the Wizard, and then come back to the Wizard when appropriate.

Also, yes, they can leave the Wizard to Dimension Door out while they run away if needed.

Yes, that is one of are the disadvantage of using a rope, but I don't see how it is different if the wizard have or don't have darkvision turned on.

Quote from: Kaelik;576820Because if you use a torch then things besides Bone Devils can see you from far away and get the jump on you. Like Slaads and Demons and such.

And not every single PC is always a dwarf.

Wizard is the preferred class for Elves, and crafting a Ring of Darkvision is 8,000 gp.  Well within the means of a 10th level character.  Fiddling some numbers around by at least removing the spider limitation, it can probably be had for less than 5,000gp.  The 12th level Wizard is needed to forge the ring, but a 3rd level Wizard can cast the darkvision spell on it.

Of course, the Wizard can forgo all that nonsense and just cast darkvision and permanency on themselves at 10th level.  At that level, it should be de rigueur anyway.

Quote from: StormBringer;576885Wizard is the preferred class for Elves, and crafting a Ring of Darkvision is 8,000 gp.  Well within the means of a 10th level character.  Fiddling some numbers around by at least removing the spider limitation, it can probably be had for less than 5,000gp.  The 12th level Wizard is needed to forge the ring, but a 3rd level Wizard can cast the darkvision spell on it.

Of course, the Wizard can forgo all that nonsense and just cast darkvision and permanency on themselves at 10th level.  At that level, it should be de rigueur anyway.

Uhh... what?

1) Removing restrictions does not reduce the price.
2) That's not a core item, and since I never said a splatbook party would be TPKed, that is irrelevant.
3) Yes, you can cast Permanency and then Darkvision. And then will go really well for you until you run into something with dispel magic, either as a spell, or as an at will SLA like some Slaads/Demons/ect.

And so the sooner you cast it, the sooner it get's dispelled, and then you are just wasting XP.

Quote from: Kaelik;5768921) Removing restrictions does not reduce the price.

Sensibly, I would probably reduce the price somewhat if it were a general item rather than only usable by spiders.  Are you familiar with 'economics'?

Also:

QuoteIf a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration  measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell  is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10  minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour  duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

Darkvision+Permanency = 24hrs, reasonably.

Quote2) That's not a core item, and since I never said a splatbook party would be TPKed, that is irrelevant.

Ok, so the darkvision thing really is a core tactic for your argument.  That's... odd.  Essentially, you are saying that the party has to be blind in order for you to 'win'.  That doesn't strengthen the argument in your favour.

Additionally, I wasn't suggesting using that exact item, just that it could be crafted - with only the core books - for a similar price, or possibly a bit less.

Quote3) Yes, you can cast Permanency and then Darkvision. And then will go really well for you until you run into something with dispel magic, either as a spell, or as an at will SLA like some Slaads/Demons/ect.

"You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell.  You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of  permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you  were when you cast the spell."
They would have to be casting at 11th level or better, or have 11HD or better.  Hence, not just any kobold shaman with a dispel magic will ruin the spell, which is what you are getting at, I am sure.  And since the Bone Devil is 10HD and does not have dispel magic, it won't actually be a problem here, will it?  

Permanency is a 5th level spell that takes two rounds to cast, and darkvision only takes 1 standard action.  If something were to interfere with the spell, the Wizard could have it back up again almost immediately after removing the problem, and (with a reasonable DM) cast permanency on it after combat is resolved.  Or, cast continual flame on a rock or something and use that to see normally, then re-instate the permanent darkvision after combat.

QuoteAnd so the sooner you cast it, the sooner it get's dispelled, and then you are just wasting XP.

Except the Bone Devil can't actually dispel it, and even if it could, that would presume it knows the spell is active in the first place, unless it is just throwing around blanket dispels in the hopes of getting lucky.  The latter case is not good tactics, actually, and would normally just be a cover for the former instance, which is that horrid 'meta-gaming' you hate so thoroughly.  Rather like "Hey, I am just swinging my fist around, so I hope you don't run into it!" that small children are fond of.

I am under the growing suspicion that you Denners aren't really very familiar with how rules work in general, and specifically how the 3.x rules work.  It's almost like you haven't read them recently, or perhaps at all.  I mean, the last time I so much as played 3.x was a year ago or something.  And that was the first time I had played 3.x for several years before that.  

I would expect someone that plays 3.x fairly regularly would at least be the match for my own skill at the game.  I am routinely disappointed by the Denners in that regard.  Part of that is, of course, that you don't get to even touch the viking hat unless you are already a pretty awesome player, and the viking hat signifies that you are an awesome GM, too.  So, I do have that in my favour.  But seriously, darkvision is the core of your strategy?  I though CRKreuger was exaggerating that a bit, but it turns out he wasn't.  When your entire strategy is foiled by a 2nd level spell, you might want to go back and re-consider your professed 'skill'.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Sensibly, I would probably reduce the price somewhat if it were a general item rather than only usable by spiders.  Are you familiar with 'economics'?

Certainly more so than you. See, I can draw a basic supply and demand graph, and I know that when you increase the demand from "spiders" to "everything" you increase the price.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Darkvision+Permanency = 24hrs, reasonably.

1) Darkvision and Permanency are too different spells. Are you saying that you want a continuous use item of Permanency and Darkvision?

Because the price of that would be (5X9X2000gp/2)+(5X50X1000)=295,000gp for just the permanency, plus the Darkvision.

2) Why are you trying so hard to make up rules for getting an item of Darkvision that cost so much more when there already exists an item that does it for less than 295,000gp? See.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Ok, so the darkvision thing really is a core tactic for your argument.  That's... odd.  Essentially, you are saying that the party has to be blind in order for you to 'win'.  That doesn't strengthen the argument in your favour.

No, the Darkvision thing is one of many disadvantages that PCs have that you people like to cheat and ignore. Parties of 4 dwarves do exist, and also get TPKed as well, but if you want to solve the Darkvision problem in a way that disagrees with my contention of by the book TPKs of core parties, it had better be by the book and core.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Additionally, I wasn't suggesting using that exact item, just that it could be crafted - with only the core books - for a similar price, or possibly a bit less.

And you would be wrong, because the price would be 2X3X2000gp=12,000gp.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917"You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell.  You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of  permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you  were when you cast the spell."
They would have to be casting at 11th level or better, or have 11HD or better.  Hence, not just any kobold shaman with a dispel magic will ruin the spell, which is what you are getting at, I am sure.  And since the Bone Devil is 10HD and does not have dispel magic, it won't actually be a problem here, will it?

1) No, but when you are level 7 and you spend 1000xp to do it, you still get it dispelled by a Gray Slaad. And if you do it when you are level 10, the Eladrin/Nalfenshene/Glabrezu does it as well.

But thanks for pointing out that you are building this party under the assumption they will only ever face Bone Devils and nothing else, that really makes my point for me.

2) Also there is the whole RAW where even though the Permanency can't be dispelled, the Darkvision still can, because it's a different spell, just one that has had it's duration changed to "Permanent."

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Permanency is a 5th level spell that takes two rounds to cast, and darkvision only takes 1 standard action.  If something were to interfere with the spell, the Wizard could have it back up again almost immediately after removing the problem, and (with a reasonable DM) cast permanency on it after combat is resolved.  Or, cast continual flame on a rock or something and use that to see normally, then re-instate the permanent darkvision after combat.

Yes. If a Wizard is stupid enough to prepare Permanency in his highest level slot when going into combat, he might be able to get the spell back up. But no one care, because the biggest disadvantage to losing your Permanencied Darkvision is not that you don't have Darkvision. It's that you just set 1000xp on fire.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917Except the Bone Devil can't actually dispel it, and even if it could, that would presume it knows the spell is active in the first place, unless it is just throwing around blanket dispels in the hopes of getting lucky.  The latter case is not good tactics, actually, and would normally just be a cover for the former instance, which is that horrid 'meta-gaming' you hate so thoroughly.  Rather like "Hey, I am just swinging my fist around, so I hope you don't run into it!" that small children are fond of.

1) Things with dispel magic at will usually have spellcraft as a skill, which is all that is required to notice the darkvision.

2) So once again, as long as your party only ever faces Bone Devils and nothing else ever, then your level 10 party built specifically for killing CR 9 Bone Devils will be fine with this tactic. But if they end of fighting non Bone Devils at any point in their lives, then they will probably run into the problem where they spent 1000xp on a Permanency that gets dispelled, and their solution to having it dispelled is to spend another 1000xp before they even solve the problem, so they lose it again to the inevitable/slaad/demon/devil/angel/eladrin.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917I am under the growing suspicion that you Denners aren't really very familiar with how rules work in general, and specifically how the 3.x rules work.

I already knew you don't know how the rules work, so it doesn't surprise me at all that you would suggest preparing Permanency in your 5th level slot when going into a Dungeon, and using a strategy of permanent XP burn that results in getting nothing better than you would have had from just casting the spell.

I mean, at least beejazz was smart enough to come up with the idea of having an all dwarf party, which is both core, and doesn't require lighting xp on fire.

Quote from: StormBringer;576917But seriously, darkvision is the core of your strategy?  I though CRKreuger was exaggerating that a bit, but it turns out he wasn't.  When your entire strategy is foiled by a 2nd level spell, you might want to go back and re-consider your professed 'skill'.

You might have noticed that Spike used the level 2 spell Darkvision... and then lost because he never even detected the Bone Devil.

Quote from: Kaelik;576933Certainly more so than you. See, I can draw a basic supply and demand graph, and I know that when you increase the demand from "spiders" to "everything" you increase the price.

That must be why Ferraris are so much less expensive than a Ford Taurus.

Quote1) Darkvision and Permanency are too different spells. Are you saying that you want a continuous use item of Permanency and Darkvision?

Ummm...  Darkvision lasts 1hr per level, so a 10th level caster would get 20hrs per day, but to hit the actual 24hr mark, it would probably have to have permanency on it.  Of course, this was more or less a requirement in earlier versions, but you don't know anything about those.  Also, casting the spell once per charge was necessary.  Items that don't have or need charges just need the permanency.

QuoteBecause the price of that would be (5X9X2000gp/2)+(5X50X1000)=295,000gp for just the permanency, plus the Darkvision.

Ummm...  Why scheme are you using for the darkvision?  I mean, holy shit, even if you wanted to enforce whatever bizarre concept you have by having 50 charges of darkvision, the cost would be "Spell level × caster level × 750 gp" which would be (2x3x750), or 4,500gp.  

Of course, with the permanent darkvision, "If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half".  So, you don't think that needs a permanency?  Fine.  12th level Wizard forges the ring, the 3rd level Assistant Wizard casts the darkvision, and the cost is ((2x3x2000)/2) = 6,000 gp.  Add a couple thousand for the cost of the ring and the 12th level Wizard's time, and we can call it 8,000gp.

300,000 for a Ring of Darkvision?  Trying to float that is just utter stupidity.

Quote2) Why are you trying so hard to make up rules for getting an item of Darkvision that cost so much more when there already exists an item that does it for less than 295,000gp? See.

Because that still costs more than the 8,000 or so for a ring, and it does a whole lot more than just the darkvision that is needed to foil your cunning plan.  Plus, that 300,000gp figure is completely retarded.  I mean, didn't you at least look at that and think "Wow, that looks waaaaaaay too high for a ring with a single spell on it..."?

QuoteNo, the Darkvision thing is one of many disadvantages that PCs have that you people like to cheat and ignore. Parties of 4 dwarves do exist, and also get TPKed as well, but if you want to solve the Darkvision problem in a way that disagrees with my contention of by the book TPKs of core parties, it had better be by the book and core.

Ok, since this is only one of an innumerable amount of disadvantages, it shouldn't be much of a problem to just ignore it and say all the hallways are brightly lit, right?  I mean, if there are so many more disadvantages, then this piddly little issue can be ignored, right?

QuoteAnd you would be wrong, because the price would be 2X3X2000gp=12,000gp.

Wait, you just said up there it would be just under 300,000 because you calculated it with 50charges or something.  Which is it?

Quote1) No, but when you are level 7 and you spend 1000xp to do it, you still get it dispelled by a Gray Slaad. And if you do it when you are level 10, the Eladrin/Nalfenshene/Glabrezu does it as well.

But we are talking about a 10th level party, which assumes a 10th level Wizard, right?  So the 7th level Wizard and the Slaad are irrelevant in this case, right?  Bringing it up was pointless, then, because the Grey Slaad can't dispel the permanent darkvision of a 10th level Wizard.  Correct?

QuoteBut thanks for pointing out that you are building this party under the assumption they will only ever face Bone Devils and nothing else, that really makes my point for me.

I specifically stated that a permanent darkvision would be a good general tactic for a 10th level Wizard under any circumstances.  In this particular circumstance - you know, the Bone Devil Thunderdome? - it ends up being particularly useful because despite your incorrect assumptions about how easy it is to dispel, the Bone Devil (remember the one in the Thunderdome that you were participating in?) is unable to dispel the permanent darkvision, meaning the Wizard would have no trouble seeing the Bone Devil.

Quote2) Also there is the whole RAW where even though the Permanency can't be dispelled, the Darkvision still can, because it's a different spell, just one that has had it's duration changed to "Permanent."

Wow, that is certainly...  creative?  I would be interested to know how you arrive at the interpretation from RAW.  Your cohort gets magnificently bent out of shape at the merest hint of DM shenanigans, and this is a pretty dick move that more or less negates the rules and the spirit of permanency.

QuoteYes. If a Wizard is stupid enough to prepare Permanency in his highest level slot when going into combat, he might be able to get the spell back up. But no one care, because the biggest disadvantage to losing your Permanencied Darkvision is not that you don't have Darkvision. It's that you just set 1000xp on fire.

If only there was some way to record spells in a portable form that a Wizard could have instead of using spells slots...  perhaps some flexible surface on which to inscribe the spell that could be rolled up and placed in a protective tube of some kind for later use...  

Quote1) Things with dispel magic at will usually have spellcraft as a skill, which is all that is required to notice the darkvision.

The Bone Devil (remember, the is the subject of this Thunderdome) has neither.  In fact, of all the Devils in the SRD, only the Pit Fiend is able to dispel magic (greater).  Demons are a little better, but only a third of them are able to.  So, reasonably safe against evil outsiders in general.  You are certainly free to find examples of other monsters that can dispel, either at will or not.  Remember, they would have to be at least 11HD to make a difference with this particular Thunderdome.

Quote2) So once again, as long as your party only ever faces Bone Devils and nothing else ever, then your level 10 party built specifically for killing CR 9 Bone Devils will be fine with this tactic. But if they end of fighting non Bone Devils at any point in their lives, then they will probably run into the problem where they spent 1000xp on a Permanency that gets dispelled, and their solution to having it dispelled is to spend another 1000xp before they even solve the problem, so they lose it again to the inevitable/slaad/demon/devil/angel/eladrin.

Or, as I just pointed out, no Devils except for the Pit Fiend, which is 18HD.  And as you made the assertion, you can now follow up with evidence that non-Bone Devil monsters in the 11HD range will 'probably' be able to dispel the darkvision.  So, half the 11 HD monsters would need to be capable of dispelling the permanent darkvision in order for your claim of 'probably' to hold.  And just for shits and giggles, you can throw in an explanation of why a slaad/demon/devil/angel/eladrin encounter is 'inevitable'.

Naturally, all this is solved with an 8,000-12,000gp magic item.  Or just a bit more for the Belt of Dwarvenkind, which has some other benefits as well.

QuoteI already knew you don't know how the rules work, so it doesn't surprise me at all that you would suggest preparing Permanency in your 5th level slot when going into a Dungeon, and using a strategy of permanent XP burn that results in getting nothing better than you would have had from just casting the spell.

Or use a scroll.  

Should I wait until you have the books in front of you, and perhaps someone that has actually played D&D at some point in their lives?

QuoteI mean, at least beejazz was smart enough to come up with the idea of having an all dwarf party, which is both core, and doesn't require lighting xp on fire.

Inorite?  How could a 10th level character possibly recover from losing 1,000XP?  That's... what?  Almost three-quarters of their total XP at that level?

QuoteYou might have noticed that Spike used the level 2 spell Darkvision... and then lost because he never even detected the Bone Devil.

Well, that isn't why he lost, of course.  And had you actually had a plan to attack the party, it would have come in handy.  Avoiding the party until they starved to death is a tactic, I suppose.

So is there going to be any ya know fighting in this Thunderdome thread.

Or are people going to just keep bitching about how sempai is being unfair to them.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972That must be why Ferraris are so much less expensive than a Ford Taurus.

You are so stupid. Everyone who wants a Ford Taurus also wants a Ferrari. Which is why the demand is so much higher that the price rises to the point where they sell their limited supply. Seriously, take some basic economics and come back when you aren't contending that you would personally pay twice as much for something that is half as useful.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Ummm...  Darkvision lasts 1hr per level, so a 10th level caster would get 20hrs per day, but to hit the actual 24hr mark, it would probably have to have permanency on it.  Of course, this was more or less a requirement in earlier versions, but you don't know anything about those.  Also, casting the spell once per charge was necessary.  Items that don't have or need charges just need the permanency.

Are you and idiot? What the fuck are you talking about. Darkvision is a spell which has a duration of one hour per level. The fact that you can change that duration by casting a level 5 spell does not make items of it cheaper.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Ummm...  Why scheme are you using for the darkvision?  I mean, holy shit, even if you wanted to enforce whatever bizarre concept you have by having 50 charges of darkvision, the cost would be "Spell level × caster level × 750 gp" which would be (2x3x750), or 4,500gp.

Learn to read. I said that is the price for the Continuous use Permanency. Because for some stupid reason you keep trying to bring Permanency into item creation. That number was supposed to get you to shut about adding permanency to your items.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Of course, with the permanent darkvision, "If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half".  So, you don't think that needs a permanency?  Fine.  12th level Wizard forges the ring, the 3rd level Assistant Wizard casts the darkvision, and the cost is ((2x3x2000)/2) = 6,000 gp.  Add a couple thousand for the cost of the ring and the 12th level Wizard's time, and we can call it 8,000gp.

And... you still can't read. Why are you dividing in half? Because you personally want to pay half as much for all your items? Eat shit and die. By the book you don't get to just halve the price for no reason.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Ok, since this is only one of an innumerable amount of disadvantages, it shouldn't be much of a problem to just ignore it and say all the hallways are brightly lit, right?  I mean, if there are so many more disadvantages, then this piddly little issue can be ignored, right?

You are supposed to play monsters intelligently, face four encounters a day, not know what you are facing in advance, and not have magic super vision.

I've already given the PCs one encounter a day, against an opponent they are told of in advance.

But now you are unhappy that Dungeons are dark and that monsters use their SLAs... Stop being such an idiot. Play by the book, and stop trying to pile arbitrary advantages on top of arbitrary advantages.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Wait, you just said up there it would be just under 300,000 because you calculated it with 50charges or something.  Which is it?

That is the price of Continuous Use Permanency, because you keep talking about items with Permanency as if they are cheaper.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972But we are talking about a 10th level party, which assumes a 10th level Wizard, right?  So the 7th level Wizard and the Slaad are irrelevant in this case, right?  Bringing it up was pointless, then, because the Grey Slaad can't dispel the permanent darkvision of a 10th level Wizard.  Correct?

No, incorrect. The Darkvision can still be dispelled. Only the permanency cannot.

And if you do it at 10th level, then you spent 1000xp, and then your next fight could very well be against a Ghaele Eladrin, Glabrezu, or Level 11 Wizard who casts dispel magic, and you lose 1000xp for no gain.

Because some tactics are not very good when you don't know what you are going to fight in advance. Like this one.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972I specifically stated that a permanent darkvision would be a good general tactic for a 10th level Wizard under any circumstances.  In this particular circumstance - you know, the Bone Devil Thunderdome? - it ends up being particularly useful because despite your incorrect assumptions about how easy it is to dispel, the Bone Devil (remember the one in the Thunderdome that you were participating in?) is unable to dispel the permanent darkvision, meaning the Wizard would have no trouble seeing the Bone Devil.

If you party doesn't know it is facing a Bone Devil and never anything else, then it might want to take into account other things it might face. Seriously, read the entire Thunderdome again and tell me at which point you can be sure that you aren't facing a Glabrezu, and explain why knowing that you are as likely to be facing a Glabrezu as a Bone Devil, you think this tactic is a great idea.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Wow, that is certainly...  creative?  I would be interested to know how you arrive at the interpretation from RAW.  Your cohort gets magnificently bent out of shape at the merest hint of DM shenanigans, and this is a pretty dick move that more or less negates the rules and the spirit of permanency.

Well, it starts by not ignoring the rules. Unlike you, I don't pretend the rules say whatever I want them to.

Permanency says: "Duration: Permanent...This spell makes certain other spells permanent...You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself...You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell...This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell."

So what you get is:

Cast Darkvision, Duration 10 hours.
Cast Permanency, Duration Permanent, Effect change Darkvision's Duration to Permanent.

Now when someone casts Detect Magic and concentrates on you, they see two spells active, one is a faint transmutation, the other a moderate universal.

And when someone casts dispel magic, both spells with Permanent Durations are subject to a dispel check. The Permanency spell itself is not subject to being dispelled by a lower Caster level dispel. But the Darkvision still is.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972If only there was some way to record spells in a portable form that a Wizard could have instead of using spells slots...  perhaps some flexible surface on which to inscribe the spell that could be rolled up and placed in a protective tube of some kind for later use...

If you want to spend 10,125 gp on a scroll of permanency instead of just buying a goddam Belt of Dwarvenkin, then please, do that dumbshit.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972The Bone Devil (remember, the is the subject of this Thunderdome) has neither.  In fact, of all the Devils in the SRD, only the Pit Fiend is able to dispel magic (greater).  Demons are a little better, but only a third of them are able to.  So, reasonably safe against evil outsiders in general.  You are certainly free to find examples of other monsters that can dispel, either at will or not.  Remember, they would have to be at least 11HD to make a difference with this particular Thunderdome.

Good thing that when you make your party you know in advance every single monster you are ever going to face and can know with certainty that you will never fight a Glabrezu.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972So, half the 11 HD monsters would need to be capable of dispelling the permanent darkvision in order for your claim of 'probably' to hold.

I see you don't understand how reality works. When you cast a spell that lasts "until dispelled" the very next monster doesn't have to dispel it for it to be dispelled. It could be dispelled after two or even three fights. Since you have to face four a day, that would mean 8 times before you even get two days worth.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972And just for shits and giggles, you can throw in an explanation of why a slaad/demon/devil/angel/eladrin encounter is 'inevitable'.

Inevitable is a type of monster. One of whom has dispel magic at will. Silly person who doesn't know anything about 3e.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Naturally, all this is solved with an 8,000-12,000gp magic item.  Or just a bit more for the Belt of Dwarvenkind, which has some other benefits as well.

Or just 12,000gp, because there are no 8,000gp items that grant Darkvision to PC races.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Or use a scroll.

Or don't spend 10,000gp on a scroll of Permanency, because that is fucking stupid. Buy a goddam item.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Should I wait until you have the books in front of you, and perhaps someone that has actually played D&D at some point in their lives?

I might ask the same question Mr. "I'll just buy a scroll of Permanecy every time it is dispelled and that will totally be cheaper than buying a belt of Dwavenkin."

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Inorite?  How could a 10th level character possibly recover from losing 1,000XP?  That's... what?  Almost three-quarters of their total XP at that level?

If you want to light 1000xp on fire every two days or so, go a fucking head, but don't expect to be able to survive doing it.

Quote from: StormBringer;576972Well, that isn't why he lost, of course.  And had you actually had a plan to attack the party, it would have come in handy.  Avoiding the party until they starved to death is a tactic, I suppose.

Well I did have a plan for attacking. It's not my fault he ran away before I could attack him.

Sweet Byakuren on a rice cracker.

StormBringer if darkvision is so important to you Extended Darkvision is a 3rd level spell and it lasts all day. No need to spend ~20% of your WBL on some item. I can not belive you are arguing for custom items that like the frist thing that DMs come down on, you should really know better.