Quote from: deadDMwalking;574739Edit - And if you go into the ring with Tyson and he takes a dive, he'd get counted out.  When he gets counted out, you get awarded a Knock Out.  I don't care that Spike 'took a dive'.  If he had the recognition of the community as capable of defending the position that the party would survive, then he should have been trusted to fight to the best of his ability.  I take his quitting as an admission that he saw no chance of victory.  Is that fair?  As far as Thunderdome goes, I think so.

And no one is going to give you any credit for the win. They will say tyson took a dive or was washed up. No one thinks Kevin McBride is a great fighter or that he truly beat Tyson in the way other fighters have, because Tyson quit in like the sixth round of the match. Is it a technical win? Sure, but if Kevin McBride boasts about beating tyson people just laugh at him.

Quote from: CRKrueger;574754Yeah, you can do it, but you can't target it from behind the wall yourself, so they can respond, ie. an actual fight, conditions, etc.

He can do it from 250 feet away, as long as there are no interposed barriers (like another wall of ice between him and the party.  So if the party hacked through the first one they encountered, then stepped through (learning that it hurts) the Bone Devil could have created another one to separate the first one through from the rest.  If he didn't succeed the first time, he could try again, basically until he succeeded.

Quote from: One Horse Town;574752Now, listen up you primitive screwheads - yes, that's you Den guys.

You came here to start this party. No-one went to your little rent-an-OCD forum to bait you. You came here to tell us knuckledraggers we are wrongheaded.

I think it's a bit rich to go round someones house, tell them the furniture is shit and then throw a tantrum when they tell you to shut the fuck up.

Clear enough?

I came here looking to discuss differing opinions on gaming.  That can be done without becoming acrimonious.  Rather than personal insults and telling people to shut the fuck up, you can present counter-arguments or ignore people that you think express their position or views poorly.

Quote from: Spike;574271Here, let me clue you in: I don't care how much information you present or hide, no amount of metagaming would allow me to catch your Bone Devil. And, just like in real life, now that I've realized the GM is jerking me around on my Saturday (or whatever day you'd like, since its been three or so), I will just... walk away.


Yup. You won.

I read what Spike wrote.  Yes, I understand he was upset.  He recognized that he couldn't force a confrontation with the Bone Devil on his terms.  It looks to me like he realized his defeat was a forgone conclusion.  He either had to retreat or admit that he would lose.  

And that isn't much fun.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574766If he didn't succeed the first time, he could try again, basically until he succeeded.

Assuming they were braindead enough to chop through the Wall of Ice not realizing that something bad was waiting on the other side, Wile E Bone Devil Super Genius' plan could be defeated by the character's fucking holding hands. :rolleyes:

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574766I came here looking to discuss differing opinions on gaming.  That can be done without becoming acrimonious.  Rather than personal insults and telling people to shut the fuck up, you can present counter-arguments or ignore people that you think express their position or views poorly.

Sorry son, you don't bald-faced lie here and not get called on it.  Why did you obviously lie about why Spike left?

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574767I read what Spike wrote.  Yes, I understand he was upset.  He recognized that he couldn't force a confrontation with the Bone Devil on his terms.  It looks to me like he realized his defeat was a forgone conclusion.  He either had to retreat or admit that he would lose.  

And that isn't much fun.

Yeah or you could stop lying and look at what he wrote with the viewpoint of something other then a propagandist and realize Kaelik was going to take all week to actually get into combat, so decided to say fuck it, because he probably had less boring stuff to do, like pop zits on his wife's ass.

Quote from: CRKrueger;574770Yeah or you could stop lying and look at what he wrote with the viewpoint of something other then a propagandist and realize Kaelik was going to take all week to actually get into combat, so decided to say fuck it, because he probably had less boring stuff to do, like pop zits on his wife's ass.

I quoted what he said.  Sure, there may be some room for interpretation, but he clearly said 'Yup, you won'.  I don't really care why he gave up - it's enough that he did.  If he didn't want to defend his position, he should never have agreed to a Thunderdome.  You can't have it both ways.  

Spike lost.  You can't speculate that he would have won if he stuck with it - because he quit.  If Kaelik quit, we'd be making fun of him for running his mouth and not having the balls to back up his position with action.  Now that he didn't quit (which honestly, looked to me like what people wanted to have happen) people are trying to mar the victory.  That's childish.

But let's look at the facts, shall we?

1) The Thunderdome was set up without notifying Kaelik of that fact.
2) When Kaelik failed to appear, a claim for victory was offered on the side of the core party.
3) When I referenced the Thunderdome in the original thread, Kaelik did, in fact appear.
4) After Kaelik agreed to resolve his argument with a Thunderdome, Fectin defected before the battle could begin.
5) Rather than allow Fectin's departure allow the 'regulars' to claim an unfounded victory, I stepped in to allow it to continue.  I was derided for lack of impartiality despite not having any dogs in this fight (in fact, where I've been most vocal the Wizard winning would be the most supportive of my argument) and tried to provide some flavor and ensure the rules were followed.
6) After it became clear that Spike wouldn't be allowed to have metagame knowledge (specifically about illusions, which NO DM worth the title would reveal as such without PC interaction) he decided it was 'not worth his time' and quit.  

So he lost.  I don't care that he was bored.  He had an obligation to defend his side of the argument.  

I didn't pick the map - that was Fectin.

I didn't pick the monster - that was agreed to by Spike and Kaelik.  

I didn't care who won - up until the moment someone did.

Now that Kaelik won, I will assert that he defended his position in the Thunderdome and nobody refuted it.  Two sides enter, one side leaves.  

But if you want to claim that the party could have or should have won, we can pick right up from the point before the suicide.  Anyone that thinks that Spike could have won can take his party and finish what he started.  

But if you're not willing to do that, than give Kaelik his kudos.

Quote from: One Horse Town;574627It's like watching a bunch of retards trying to fuck a door-knob.

I got to watch a movie in the meanwhile, "$5 a Day". Kinda interesting. I think I fell asleep somewhere halfway through, though. I'll have to go back and finish it up. All in all it was a better choice of my time.

Quote from: CRKrueger;574770Yeah or you could stop lying and look at what he wrote with the viewpoint of something other then a propagandist and realize Kaelik was going to take all week to actually get into combat, so decided to say fuck it, because he probably had less boring stuff to do, like pop zits on his wife's ass.

Soooooo you are saying that Spike left because Kaelik wasn't attacking him head on? That seems like a weak defense (if defending his reason for leaving is what you're trying to do). Bottom line is he forfeit. He quit, he decided his assertion was not worth defending. That means that he basically admitted that Kaelik is indeed right. running away with his head held high the instant things start rolling down hill is not going to make his position seem any better. If he had quit while he was ahead, simply because he kept foiling the enemy but couldn't "catch" him then I could look at his concession in a better light but the fact is he quit when he was behind. You can take that how you want.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;5747855) Rather than allow Fectin's departure allow the 'regulars' to claim an unfounded victory, I stepped in to allow it to continue.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574785I was derided for lack of impartiality despite not having any dogs in this fight

Hmm, it's interesting that you're somehow not aware these two sentences are mutually exclusive.  If you cared enough about the fight to step in to make sure the Den didn't lose, you definitely have a stake in the outcome, as your mealy-mouthed dissembling now proves.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;574785But if you're not willing to do that, than give Kaelik his kudos.

Spike pussed out, Kaelik did not.  Kudos.  Neither one proved a thing, however, about the appropriateness of the Bone Devil's CR.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;574649Kaelik, it is possible there may have been a miscommuncation here, but I dont think anyone was arguing bone devils cannot tpk a party. Many monsters can tpk a party and I believe most posters here would acknowledge that.

Shit, I'll admit that, all the time and twice on Sunday. Even a lowly goblin servant can TPK for ages by just not washing their hands when preparing food. Hell, I might even make that a feature of my next setting -- instead of a historical Typhoid Mary there'll be Typhoid Gronk. He'll be a legendary "CR 1."

Quote from: CRKrueger;574796Spike pussed out, Kaelik did not.  Kudos.  Neither one proved a thing, however, about the appropriateness of the Bone Devil's CR.

Spike should roll on the Wheel.

Those who think Kaelik is wrong about the Bone Devil need a new Champion. Is there anyone willing to step into his place and pick up where he left off? If there is no one willing to step up, then the subject should be dropped.

Quote from: gleichman;574799Spike should roll on the Wheel.

Those who think Kaelik is wrong about the Bone Devil need a new Champion. Is there anyone willing to step into his place and pick up where he left off? If there is no one willing to step up, then the subject should be dropped.

Agreed.

Even if they do, it'll be in the actual-play forum.

Moved.

Quote from: CRKrueger;574796Hmm, it's interesting that you're somehow not aware these two sentences are mutually exclusive.  If you cared enough about the fight to step in to make sure the Den didn't lose, you definitely have a stake in the outcome, as your mealy-mouthed dissembling now proves.

No.  I cared enough about the challenge to ensure it was handled fairly.  

By and large, I've found theRPGsite hostile to perceived 'denners', and willing to pile on, and if the regulars seem to have lost the upper hand, suddenly switch the topic (like to avatars, music, ammunition, etc).  

I didn't care if Kaelik won or lost.  I mostly expected him to lose.  It wasn't a scenario I cared much about for myself, personally.  

Like I said, the only way this fight would have had anything to do with assertions I've made is if the Fighter failed to contribute to the combat while the Wizard ruled the day.  The Tier 1 casters looking useless does nothing to advance my argument about their superiority to Fighters.  Clearly, they didn't show it, here.  That said, I think their contributions are significant compared to an all-Fighter party, for instance.  This would have been much quicker and uglier.  

Didn't you notice from those PMs that Kaelik doesn't like me much?  Do you think that I care much for people that call me assholes or tell me I'm sucking your cock?  

Give me a little credit for having a thick enough skin to have lasted more than a month and recognize that I don't have to like anyone here to want to see people being treated fairly.  Comments that attack or deride Kaelik's victory are being called out for what they are - pissing and moaning of immature jerks that don't like it that a Denner (gasp) was right (double gasp) about his assertion, and was willing to prove it in hostile territory.  

And if you have a problem with that - you can explain which of my rulings violated RAW in favor of Kaelik.  Because if anything, I was much more lenient toward Spike (spirit of the rules, not RAW).

It doesn't matter what you did DeadDM. You have been labeled an enemy. That means hostiles will treat you as an enemy no matter what. Moderates will not speak out against their own people being shit heads. It is just as gleich outlined.

Quote from: MGuy;574814It doesn't matter what you did DeadDM. You have been labeled an enemy. That means hostiles will treat you as an enemy no matter what. Moderates will not speak out against their own people being shit heads. It is just as gleich outlined.

We should be fair here, Sacrosanct did indeed call out Declan MacManus.

I was surprised.