Quote from: Spike;571752(because you very, very specifically point out ambush devil/surprise round 'slaughter house'... so much so that we went for a dozen or so post about a reasonable expectation for Wizard HP at tenth level vs Bone Devil DPS over two rounds. So where, again, is this disagreement/agreement coming from?).

I mentioned it offhand in the same post I also mentioned three other encounters. That was the thing that other people wanted to focus on, but was in no way essential to my point.

Quote from: Spike;571752No, I am not sure you ever came out and SAID it, but every time we asked/pointed out that your senario involved only a wizard being mauled (in a full party of four, no less) you're responses were various shades of 'not a meaningful contribution',

Yes, I explained that the fighter does 9 damage, the Rogue does less because he can't get SA since the Bone Devil is not denied dex and can't be flanked, and the Clerics spells fail against the Bone Devil's SR/Saves, and aren't even that good. How dare I have done that?

Quote from: Spike;571752except for the cleric, which I CLEARLY recall you never once even acknowledging was there. No reason for the cleric to not heal the wizard, no reason for the cleric to not-cast anything really.

Quote from: me in that threadbecause he doesn't get Banishment until next level, and all his other spells either won't help or take a round to help, at which point the Bone Devil leaves. I mean, I guess, in retrospect, instead of doing less than 9 damage he should attempt to break SR 21 and +12/+11 saves for either Planeshift or Slay Living. Sure he has to succeed on a touch attack which could be stopped by an AoO, and it will fail anyway, but it's at least a shot at winning the fight, unlike attacking with a spear or casting Flame Strike.

Quote from: Spike;571752Which is why I'm making a point to not fight at all to prevent you from being invisible and sneaking and ready for the party, nor am I taking any extra precautions against invisible threats (which begin before level ten anyway),

That's good, because those wouldn't help you at all against the Vrock/Hamatula/Retriever/Herzrou/Elder Earth Elemental who would also kill half the party.

Sure chief, whatever.  Most of your points (fighter damage, SA) have already been addressed before, and will be again right here in this thread. At some point. When DeadDM or fectin or some random asshole stranger steps up and starts doing some DMing shit.

I do like your litany of things that will objectively TPK the party. I've encountered most of them as a player, and I'm sure I'd have remembered more details than that if they'd actually been, you know, a threat.

Given what you've said in the past I'm going to assume a combination of Damage Reduction/10 and (in some cases) flight are key reasons why 'those monsters'. Pro-tip: Players have had to deal with DR for 12 years now, and starting lower than level 10... though YOU seem to find it impossible to overcome. Before that it was flat out immunity, and yet players handled their shit there, too.  Second Pro-Tip: Flight is a lot more powerful if most encounters didn't occur in 'dungeons'.  On reason you see few ranged fighter or cavalry builds is because you don't see many fights happening in the open where these are really useful abilities.  Pro-tip 3: Monsters with save vs suck/flee/die have been on the table since, oh, third level or so.

Also: I like the fact that half of your list was actually CR 11. As CR comparisons were a recent topic of discussion 'round here, we know that these are 'tough' fights... sort of shy of 'boss fights', and we expect to lose 50% of the party resources... meaning its likely someone is gonna die.

But honestly? As a player I wouldn't be afraid of most of 'em. Maybe the earth elemental.... nah. Its a grind fight, thats all.

Naow: Ima laugh at myself at least once in the coming fight for missing something obvious (did I put some sort of ranged weapon on the fighter? I suspect not, actually... oh well) that in a real game I would have had.  But see? I got nothin' riding on this.  If I lose, well I'm not as good a player as I thought, or I just quick designed poorly, boohoo. But if you lose, well that might just crack you fantasy world, shattering your entire mind!  You have to win now, your entire identity as a gamer is riding on it!

Or...

Not.  

I'd say I'm gleefully waiting for your next post (because, man, you are one funny dude!), but I get up for work in six hours and I got shit to do. So I'm expecting a nice present in the morning, m'kay?

Am I back to DMing then?  

It sounds like Spikes possible objection (from another thread) has been resolved.  

Since nobody has stepped up.  I'll be happy to do so.  

A few things:

While it's possible to adjust monster skills and feats to make them more challenging, those adjustments will not be allowed in this case.  The point here is to play a 'standard' monster in an intelligent fashion, not to give an existing monster more sensible options and turn them into a more credible threat.  Further, if skills are chosen after items are assigned, it becomes a chicken or the egg kind of question - does the monster have skills that take advantage of these items BECAUSE he has these items, or does he have these items because he has the skill to use them.  

Thus, items that require a command-word, if randomly generated, won't be useable by a monster that doesn't have Use Magic Device as a 'default' skill.  

I will communicate with both parties regarding actions via PM.  I will have both parties make their own rolls (as necessary) using Invsible Castle, and ask them to post the link to the rolls.  I will adjudicate those actions and post them in this thread, making them 'official'.  

The 'action' will follow the PCs, which means Kaelik (and anyone reading this thread) will know what the PCs are doing.  If it were the DM controlling the monster, he would have this same information, so it shouldn't cause any problems.  I will enforce 'reasonable actions' from Kaelik.  Effectively, the audience will be aware of what the party is doing, but will not know what Kaelik is doing until the party encounterse him.  Kaelik will agree (like any good DM would) not to take any action that would be unreasonable in the situation.  Expecting interlopers falls into 'reasonable' category, and Kaelik will communicate any preparations he makes to the terrain (via PM) before the start of the scenario.  

In this discussion, it was agreed that a Bone Devil (or similar creature) would pose this challenge.  Kaelik may or may not be playing a Bone Devil for the first scenario.  If all parties are willing, we'll play it through a couple of times.

The set-up is as follows:  
A group of cultists recently kidnapped several villagers to sacrifice them in order to summon and bind a demon.  One villager escaped and told the village elders.  The village elders contacted a party of adventurers that had helped them two years ago with a troll threat.  The party agreed to help because they remember the villagers fondly, and one or more of the kidnapped villagers were people they personally like.  

The party anticipates encountering cultists and the demon if it has already been summoned.  

We will use the map Fectin provided for the first scenario.  Sometime tomorrow I'll re-post the characters Spike has created for ease of reference and to ensure that there is a character record that cannot be edited except by the DM.  Spike will have a chance to confirm that the stat blocks are correct and then we'll begin at the entrance of the dungeon.  

Any objections?

Quote from: deadDMwalking;571789Further, if skills are chosen after items are assigned, it becomes a chicken or the egg kind of question - does the monster have skills that take advantage of these items BECAUSE he has these items, or does he have these items because he has the skill to use them.

Since 70% of all items created by randomly rolling minor items are scrolls and UMD is the only skill that allows item use it would not be a chicken or egg, it would obviously be the case that any monster being designed to not suck would have UMD as a class skill, because to not do so is to choose to be stupid.

None the less in addition to being a level lower than the party, being forced to also have shitty choices for feats and miss out on the use of half (or more) of the use of my treasure is to be expected.

Quote from: Spike;571778Given what you've said in the past I'm going to assume a combination of Damage Reduction/10 and (in some cases) flight are key reasons why 'those monsters'.

You are stupid. All I did was list every single demon or devil of CR 9-11 (actually, I forgot the Beblith, but he also applies). I threw in the Earth Elemental on the grounds that I had recently read parts of the original thread, and it was one I specifically mentioned in that thread.

Quote from: Spike;571778Pro-tip 3: Monsters with save vs suck/flee/die have been on the table since, oh, third level or so.

And since my point was that by the book core parties get TPKed at pretty much all levels, that is relevant how?

Quote from: Spike;571778Also: I like the fact that half of your list was actually CR 11.

I like how you are playing a level 10 party against a CR 9 monster and complaining about the possibility of CR 11 monsters making up half the list while CR 9s make up the other half.

Quote from: Spike;571778As CR comparisons were a recent topic of discussion 'round here, we know that these are 'tough' fights... sort of shy of 'boss fights', and we expect to lose 50% of the party resources... meaning its likely someone is gonna die.

In the future, you should try actually learning the rules before talking about what you "know."

A single CR 11 monster is an example of an EL 10 encounter, or in other words, according to the DMG:

"These are challenging encounters, about equal in Encounter Level to the party level. The average adventuring group should be able to handle four challenging encounters before they run low on spells, hit points, and other resources."

So no, CR 11s are not expected to use up 50% of the parties resources.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;571789Am I back to DMing then?

If you don't, no one will.  I think you've got the job.

Subscribed!

Looking forward to seeing how this will end.

Eh: i thought we were assaulting a liche's lair for the phat lootz, but sure, helping out the smallfolk is good too.

I'm assuming we've got a time constraint, so no taking several days to scry the place out and use the eyeball spell the day prior?

Fectin had said low ceilings and lots of darkness where what I was getting from the eyes, so not a huge loss (stupid high level spell doesn't even let you use darkvision... bah).  In this case it sounds more like find out what the locals know about the area (assuming that, given the scenario that they are friendly and eager to help).  

Personally I agree with DeadDM that going around adding skills like UMD after the fact to take advantage of items (scrolls, say) that lie outside the monsters usual ecology is inappropriate. Save it for unique boss fights... not that we'll be doing one of those here, but I'll concede to a majority opinion from the peanut gallery.

Please review the revised stat blocks.  This is mostly to make it easier for me to read, but also to catch any errors.  Some you were aware of, but I've made notes for most of the changes, anyways.  If you have any objections, let me know.  


Dag Hammerskojld
Half-Orc Fighter 10
SZ M; HD 10d10+10; hp 73;
Init +4 (+0 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative);
Spd 20 ft. (4 squares);
AC 21 (+11 armor), touch 10, flat-footed 21;
BAB/Grap +10/+16;
Full Atk +19/+14 melee (1d10+12 plus 2d6 to evil creatures/17-20x2, +1 Holy Heavy Flail;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA -; SQ darkvision 60-ft., half-orc traits;
AL CG;
SV Fort +9 (7 base, +1 Con, +1 resistance), Ref +4 (3 base, +1 resistance), Will +8 (3 base, +2 Wis, +1 resistance, +2 Iron Will);
Str 23, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 6.

Skills: Climb +5* (4 ranks, +6 Str), Ride +4 (4 ranks), Intimidate +7 (9 ranks, -2 Chr) Swim +5* (9 ranks, +6 Str).
*includes Armor Check penalty (-5)
Feats: Blind Fight, Greater Weapon Focus [flail], Improved Critical [flail], Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Leadership, Power Attack, Weapon Focus [flail], Weapon Specialization [flail].

Possessions: +3 Full Plate, Belt of Ogre Strength +4, Cloak of Resistance +1, potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3) [x3], oil of silversheen.

Notes: You had your attack listed as +22/+17.  I calculate the attack bonus as +19/+14 (+10 BAB, +6 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Greater Weapon Focus, +1 Weapon).  I added Weapon Specialization to damage.  I didn't understand your skills, so look over what I have for you – if this isn't what you want, we can fix it.  

Jurgen Hammerskoljd
Human Cleric 10
SZ M; HD 10d8+20; hp 76;
Init +3 (-1 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative);
Spd 20 ft. (4 squares);
AC 22 (-1 Dex, +10 armor, +3 shield), touch 9, flat-footed 22;
BAB/Grap +7/+7;
Full Atk +8/+3 melee (1d8+1/20x2, +1 Heavy Mace;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA turn undead, spells; SQ -;
AL NG;
SV Fort +9 (7 base, +2 Con), Ref +2 (3 base, -1 Dex), Will +10 (7 base, +3 Wis);
Str 10, Dex 8, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 17, Cha 13.

Skills: Concentration +15 (13 ranks, +2 Con), Diplomacy +14 (13 ranks, +1 Cha), Knowledge [religion] +14 (13 ranks, +1 Int), Spellcraft +14 (13 ranks, +1 Int).

Feats: Augment Summoning, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Spell Focus [conjuration], Spell Penetration.

Prepared Spells (6/5+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/2+1; save DC 13 + spell level):
0—create water, detect magic [x3], guidance, read magic;
1st—cure light wounds*, bless [x2], detect evil [x2], divine favor;
2nd-align weapon, consecrate, cure moderate wounds*, inflict moderate wounds, spiritual weapon, summon monster II;
3rd – dispel magic, fly*, magic circle against evil, searing light, summon monster III,
4th – dimension door*, death ward, dismissal, restoration
5th – mass cure light wounds*, summon monster V, true seeing.
*denotes domain spell

Possessions: +2 Full Plate, +2 Light Shield, +1 Heavy Mace, minor circlet of blasting (+6 ranged touch 3d8 or 6d6 1/day), goggles of night, medallion of thoughts, oil of silversheen[x2], holy symbol (gold), holy symbol (wood), holy water [x4].

Notes: As far as I could tell, you had spent 42 skill points; you should have had 52 (16 at 1st level, plus 4 per level thereafter).  That's enough to have max ranks in 4 skills, so that's what I did.    Pelor doesn't grant access to the Travel Domain, but there's no reason Jurgen can't be dedicated to an ideal.  Healing and Travel would fit together for an order of battlefield medics, so I have no objections.  It appears you forgot bonus spells for a high Wisdom (one at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd).  I chose spells that seemed appropriate, but feel free to change them out if you like, or let me know if you want to leave those slots open to prepare additional spells later.    


Ambrose the Awesome
Human Wizard 10
SZ M; HD 10d4+30; hp 60;
Init +1 (+1 Dex);
Spd 30 ft. (6 squares);
AC 11 (+1 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 10;
BAB/Grap +5/+4;
Full Atk +4 melee (1d3-1/20x2, unarmed strike;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA spells; SQ familiar (rat);
AL CN;
SV Fort +8 (3 base, +3 Con, +2 familiar), Ref +4 (3 base, +1 Dex), Will +8 (7 base, +1 Wis);
Str 8, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 12, Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +16 or +20 to cast defensively (13 ranks, +3 Con, +4 Combat Casting), Decipher Script +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int), Profession (masseuse) +14 (13 ranks, +1 Wis), Knowledge [arcana] +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int), Knowledge [history] +11 (7 ranks, +4 Int), Spellcraft +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int).
 
Feats: Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Mastery, Spell Penetration.

Prepared Spells (4/5/5/4/4/2; save DC 14 + spell level):
0—disrupt undead [x3], mage hand [x3];
1st—feather fall, magic missile [x2], ray of enfeeblement [x2];
2nd-darkvision, false life, knock [x2], mirror image;
3rd – blink, dispel magic, fireball, fly
4th – black tentacles, dimension door [x2], greater invisibility
5th – extended stoneskin, prying eyes.

Possessions: [iHeadband of Intellect +2[/i], Amulet of Health +2, [ibead of force[/i], minor cloak of displacement potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3)[x2].

Notes: You had the AC listed as 14, but I couldn't see anything that increased the AC beyond the +1 Dex.  BAB is +5 (not +4).  I calculate the Fort save as +8, not +7. Ambrose should have 72 skill points – it's a pain because of his change in Intelligence modifier from +2 to +3 at 4th level, plus the additional skill point for being human.  I increased all chosen skill to max ranks (13) and then spent the remaining extra skill points on Knowledge [history]. Ambrose was short a feat, but he didn't have Spell Penetration listed, which is a prerequisite for Greater Spell Penetration.  I added bonus spells for high intelligence (plus one at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th).  Since I don't see what spells he has in his spellbook, I just added an additional preparation of a spell already chosen, except for dispel magic at 3rd.  The cloak of displacement does not specify if it is minor or major; I assume minor.

Gareth Three-Fingers, V
Dwarf Rogue 10
SZ M; HD 10d10+10; hp 73;
Init +8 (+4 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative);
Spd 20 ft. (4 squares);
AC 20 (+4 Dex, +6 armor), touch 14, flat-footed 16;
BAB/Grap +7/+8;
Full Atk +12 ranged (1d10+1/19-20x2, +1 Heavy Crossbow;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA crippling strike, sneak attack +5d6; SQ darkvision 60-ft., dwarf traits, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense +3, uncanny dodge;
AL CN;
SV Fort +5 (3 base, +2 Con), Ref +11 (7 base, +4 Dex), Will +3 (3 base);
Str 12, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 6.

Skills: Appraise +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Disable Device +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Hide +22 (+13 ranks, +4 Dex, +5 competence), Listen +15 (13 ranks, +2 Alertness), Move Silently +22 (13 ranks, +4 Dex, +5 competence), Open Locks +17 (13 ranks, +4 Dex), Search +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Spot +15 (13 ranks, +2 Alertness), Tumble +17 (13 ranks, +4 Dex), Use Magic Device +11 (13 ranks, -2 Cha).

Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload.

Possessions: +1 heavy crossbow, +2 mithril shirt of shadow and silent moves, Gloves of Dexterity +2, iron bands of binding, thieves' tools, dungeon gear, 5 adamantine bolts, 10 cold iron bolts, 10 alchemical silver bolts, 40 normal bolts

Notes: Gareth's AC didn't appear to include the full armor value.  You had your BAB listed as +8; it should be +7.  That forced me to adjust the attack bonus for the crossbow.  I calculate the Will save as +3, not +5.

Go for it DeadDM I am intrigued to see how this works out. (Kick ass Pika O'doom if you can).

I'm pressed for time, but I'll go over them fully this afternoon (about two hours from now?). Its been a few weeks, but I'll try to remember why Jurgen got a travel domain. As I recall, I could have simply left the name of his diety blank and picked two domains of my choosing, but I've never actually done that, so why start now?

The BaB change for teh fighter is proper. In my hurry I applied the strength and a half to both attacks and damage.*  I had a generic note on 'mundane equipment' for most of the party members, but didn't list anything. Do you want me to list some basic stuff like back up (mundane) weapons, rope etc?





* In my defense, I've never played a two hand fighter in 3.X. I'm a dually normally. I leave the big smack-sticks to barbarian fans... I didn't even know the strength and a half thing existed until about four years ago!

Yeah, it's an easy rule to forget especially since most opt players never use it. And very few non-opt players even know it's an option.  Given most know Drzzit and Aragon but little else.

I lied about not using two handed weapons in 3.x.... but I did it with Monkey Grip.

Is fun. Maybe not practical... but imagine running around with two huge freaking swords like some sorta later day doom-blender! you miss a lot.. but who cares!  *








* I lied again. I've only ever talked about dual weilding monkey gripped greatswords.*






*and again. I'm incorrigable! I really only talked about it this one time, on the internets...

You have to know you're my favorite Pika of all time Spike, no worries.*

*May you and your Pika loving daughter live long and prosper.

Quote from: deadDMwalking;571896Skills: Concentration +15 (13 ranks, +2 Con), Diplomacy +14 (13 ranks, +1 Cha), Knowledge [religion] +14 (13 ranks, +1 Int), Spellcraft +14 (13 ranks, +1 Int).

Feats: Augment Summoning, Improved Initiative, Quicken Spell, Spell Focus [conjuration], Spell Penetration.

Prepared Spells (6/5+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/2+1; save DC 13 + spell level):
0—create water, detect magic [x3], guidance, read magic;
1st—cure light wounds*, bless [x2], detect evil [x2], divine favor;
2nd-align weapon, consecrate, cure moderate wounds*, inflict moderate wounds, spiritual weapon, summon monster II;
3rd – dispel magic, fly*, magic circle against evil, searing light, summon monster III,
4th – dimension door*, death ward, dismissal, restoration
5th – mass cure light wounds*, summon monster V, true seeing.
*denotes domain spell

Possessions: +2 Full Plate, +2 Light Shield, +1 Heavy Mace, minor circlet of blasting (+6 ranged touch 3d8 or 6d6 1/day), goggles of night, medallion of thoughts, oil of silversheen[x2], holy symbol (gold), holy symbol (wood), holy water [x4].

Notes: As far as I could tell, you had spent 42 skill points; you should have had 52 (16 at 1st level, plus 4 per level thereafter).  That’s enough to have max ranks in 4 skills, so that’s what I did.    Pelor doesn’t grant access to the Travel Domain, but there’s no reason Jurgen can’t be dedicated to an ideal.  Healing and Travel would fit together for an order of battlefield medics, so I have no objections.  It appears you forgot bonus spells for a high Wisdom (one at 1st, 2nd, and 3rd).  I chose spells that seemed appropriate, but feel free to change them out if you like, or let me know if you want to leave those slots open to prepare additional spells later.    

There was an improved spell list on the second page (for me... 6th maybe? for everyone else?), this comes up with wizard too.  The lack of bonus spells was because I was lazy and quick'n'durty.  I figured Kaelik wouldn't complain if I chose to short myself, and if I 'won' without bonuses, well, go me! In retrospect that was an unwise choice, since it would make it harder to honestly evaluate a failure on my part and looks like excuse prepping.  I honestly don't think this is gonna be decided by skills, so once I wrote down the 'important' ones I sorta left off.

QuoteAmbrose the Awesome
Human Wizard 10
SZ M; HD 10d4+30; hp 60;
Init +1 (+1 Dex);
Spd 30 ft. (6 squares);
AC 11 (+1 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 10;
BAB/Grap +5/+4;
Full Atk +4 melee (1d3-1/20x2, unarmed strike;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA spells; SQ familiar (rat);
AL CN;
SV Fort +8 (3 base, +3 Con, +2 familiar), Ref +4 (3 base, +1 Dex), Will +8 (7 base, +1 Wis);
Str 8, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 19, Wis 12, Cha 10.

Skills: Concentration +16 or +20 to cast defensively (13 ranks, +3 Con, +4 Combat Casting), Decipher Script +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int), Profession (masseuse) +14 (13 ranks, +1 Wis), Knowledge [arcana] +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int), Knowledge [history] +11 (7 ranks, +4 Int), Spellcraft +17 (13 ranks, +4 Int).
 
Feats: Combat Casting, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Penetration, Heighten Spell, Quicken Spell, Scribe Scroll, Spell Mastery, Spell Penetration.

Prepared Spells (4/5/5/4/4/2; save DC 14 + spell level):
0—disrupt undead [x3], mage hand [x3];
1st—feather fall, magic missile [x2], ray of enfeeblement [x2];
2nd-darkvision, false life, knock [x2], mirror image;
3rd – blink, dispel magic, fireball, fly
4th – black tentacles, dimension door [x2], greater invisibility
5th – extended stoneskin, prying eyes.

Possessions: [iHeadband of Intellect +2[/i], Amulet of Health +2, [ibead of force[/i], minor cloak of displacement potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3)[x2].

Notes: You had the AC listed as 14, but I couldn’t see anything that increased the AC beyond the +1 Dex.  BAB is +5 (not +4).  I calculate the Fort save as +8, not +7. Ambrose should have 72 skill points – it’s a pain because of his change in Intelligence modifier from +2 to +3 at 4th level, plus the additional skill point for being human.  I increased all chosen skill to max ranks (13) and then spent the remaining extra skill points on Knowledge [history]. Ambrose was short a feat, but he didn’t have Spell Penetration listed, which is a prerequisite for Greater Spell Penetration.  I added bonus spells for high intelligence (plus one at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th).  Since I don’t see what spells he has in his spellbook, I just added an additional preparation of a spell already chosen, except for dispel magic at 3rd.  The cloak of displacement does not specify if it is minor or major; I assume minor.

On Ambrose: The 14 is from Mage Armor, which is on that spell list. He went through some edits along the way, and has about 9k gold to spend. Keeping in mind that I don't want kaelik saying I deliberately shorted myself so I'd have an excuse if he won, I should probably spend that.  I didn't write down the Spell Pen feat because it is an obvious prereq that does the same thing. I should have mentioned that bit of shorthand, but you obviously worked it out.  I'll re-post the spell list at the end of this response. Again for all characters: rather than get into penny-ante fights over how many candles I could afford, I just left a few hundred gp off each WBL (minimum) and 'assume' conventional adventuring gear and only wrote down magic items. If everyone is cool with me having, say, a crowbar out my ass I'll continue this was, otherwise I'll knock out the 'standard kit' and post that before we begin. I WILL go ahead and note mundane weapons (which were left off because:Mundane).

QuoteGareth Three-Fingers, V
Dwarf Rogue 10
SZ M; HD 10d10+10; hp 73;
Init +8 (+4 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative);
Spd 20 ft. (4 squares);
AC 20 (+4 Dex, +6 armor), touch 14, flat-footed 16;
BAB/Grap +7/+8;
Full Atk +12 ranged (1d10+1/19-20x2, +1 Heavy Crossbow;
Space/Reach 5 ft./5 ft.;
SA crippling strike, sneak attack +5d6; SQ darkvision 60-ft., dwarf traits, evasion, improved uncanny dodge, trapfinding, trap sense +3, uncanny dodge;
AL CN;
SV Fort +5 (3 base, +2 Con), Ref +11 (7 base, +4 Dex), Will +3 (3 base);
Str 12, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 6.

Skills: Appraise +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Disable Device +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Hide +22 (+13 ranks, +4 Dex, +5 competence), Listen +15 (13 ranks, +2 Alertness), Move Silently +22 (13 ranks, +4 Dex, +5 competence), Open Locks +17 (13 ranks, +4 Dex), Search +15 (13 ranks, +2 Int), Spot +15 (13 ranks, +2 Alertness), Tumble +17 (13 ranks, +4 Dex), Use Magic Device +11 (13 ranks, -2 Cha).

Feats: Alertness, Improved Initiative, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload.

Possessions: +1 heavy crossbow, +2 mithril shirt of shadow and silent moves, Gloves of Dexterity +2, iron bands of binding, thieves’ tools, dungeon gear, 5 adamantine bolts, 10 cold iron bolts, 10 alchemical silver bolts, 40 normal bolts

Notes: Gareth’s AC didn’t appear to include the full armor value.  You had your BAB listed as +8; it should be +7.  That forced me to adjust the attack bonus for the crossbow.  I calculate the Will save as +3, not +5.

Huh. Well, if I made an error, I made an error. I'll dig up my scratch pad and look over the original post. Gareth had some cash too, so I should probably put a bit more effort into squeezing him full for the same reasons as above.  you forgot his completely non-mechanical peg leg and eye patch! That could matter damnit! (uh... nevermind...).



As a note: Every character has (or should have) some form of Darkvision.  The Wiz has it as a spell. Thus they don't need torches, lanterns or light spells.  Not that it particularly matters, mind.
The Wiz runs with Mage Armor, Stoneskin (extended to 10 hours), Darkvision and False Life (d10+10 extra HP). That would be his default dungeon load, with Stoneskin being 'droppable' in favor of an extra 5'er if scrying demanded.

Spells not memorized currently included the prying eyes at a minimum, along with other 'pre-dungeon' scouting spells. If necessary I can submit a list of likely spells he'd want to know for approval.  Everything these guys have got is absolutely core, except for set dressing stuff I did as inside jokes (peg legs, light coats of baby oil... that sort of thing...)

Quote from:  me from several weeks agoUpdated 'deeper' spell list (minor changes only, added bonus spells for stats)
Domain Powers: Freedom of movement up to 10 rounds/day, +1 caster level on healing spells
Spells:
0- Create water, Detect Magic (3), Guidance, Read Magic
1- (Cure Light), Detect Evil (2), Bless (2)
2- (Cure Moderate) Align Weapon, Conscrate, Spiritual Weapon, Summon II, Remove Paralysis
3- (Fly) Summon III (2), Searing Light, Dispell Magic
4- (Dimension Door) Dismissal, Death Ward, Restoration
5- (Cure Light, Mass) Summon V, True Seeing

1- Ray of Enfeeblement (2), Feather Fall, Magic Missile Mage Armor
2- Darkvision, Knock, False Life, Mirror Image, Glitterdust
3- Fly, Blink, Fireball, Halt Undead
4- Invis-Greater, Dimension Door, Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor
5- Extended Stoneskin, Hold Monster

Bolded long term buffs for visibility.  I noted in the backstory that the Bro (wizard) is a selfish and cowardly git that doesn't trust the party to save his bacon (or something vaguely like that). Also the 'GM' of this campaign seems to like 'geek the mage' and 'closet troll' encounters (based on kaeliks stated opening gambit it seems like a due cause to believe the the monsters at this table do this ALL.THE.TIME.  So the 'party' plans accordingly.  No, I have no intention of forcing Kaelik to keep to that robotic scripting.  He's free to bluff the players (me).  Technically I thought this was an undead lair that happened to have an unexpected demon, which is why there are absolutely useless (but appropriate) undead specific spells. Unless the party has a day or two to prepare for demon worshippers instead, they'll remain.


False Life D10 Roll for Ambrose

So... he's got 20 more HP from False Life. You should be able to see that was a first time die roll for Spike, if I understand this 'invisible castle' place at all correctly, as well as the previous hp rolls? I can roll again or go with the statistically average 15 too.  I'm easy.


Second Edit:  Found why I gave Travel domain to the cleric. It's in the Wiki entry!   I used a non-standard source due to my unfortunate seperation from my library.  Beats calling up the house to have 'em answer simple trivia questions. I have since then managed (at LAST) to get PDF core books, but the SRD internet is still faster!!

When I was looking back over the thread, I missed the 'improved' spell list.  Reposting was important to me to

1) Make it easier to read
2) Get everything in the same place

I have no objections with not having defined your non-magical gear, but I wouldn't mind if you wanted to cover it in detail.  I didn't repost the notes about what type of gear each person had, but you did say, so if it falls into that category (like rope, pitons, etc) I don't have a problem with you having it.  Something more unusual (like a portable battering ram) I'd assign a percent chance to having (probably pretty low).  

We'll work out any of those details before contact is made.  No reason we can't get started.