Quote from: dsivisI remember one idea they had on AnimalBall (it must have been Brasky or Mike) who wanted to do a original Star Trek-style RPG while HP were represented by the number of Red Shirts you had surrounding your PC.

In many wargames you can only attack a unit, and not a specific character within a unit.  When the unit is hit and a character is killed, the player controlling the unit can decide which character gets removed.  This will almost always be one of the "red shirts" and not the hero attached to that unit.

This is one of the non-RPG design patterns I'm adapting for my RPG.

I've put the following together for d20 type games (D&D etc.):

Multiply Con by 6, then divide by 5. In the case of remainders, divide those evenly at one point per category. So a PC with a Con of 13 would get 78 points (13x6) with 15 per category and 3 points left over. So the first three categories would have 16 points, and the final two 15.

And what are the categories?

Minor Wound
Light Wound
Medium Wound
Serious Wound
Critical Wound
Fatal Wound
Death.

Using the example above the progression would be:

1-16: Minor Wound
17-32: Light Wound
33-48: Medium Wound
49-63: Serious Wound
64-78: Critical Wound
79-93: Fatal Wound
94+: Death

Damage is not cumulative. A 10 point Minor Wound and a 55 point Serious Wound do not (with our example) add up to a 65 point Critical Wound. They remain separate wounds and are tracked separately. Though the effects are additive.

In addition, wounds can bleed. Blood loss does make the overall condition worse.

The effects of wounds are blood loss, impairment, and shock. Shock itself can lead to impairment, loss of consciousness, and even death. The last even if the wound itself is not otherwise fatal.

Shock comes in three forms. There is mild, severe, and fatal. Most of the time a Fortitude Save against a DC equal to the damage done by the weapon inficting the wound will work. Except when the wound is a fatal one. Then there is no save, and the subject goes into fatal shock.

Cure spells will either cure (that is, heal) the wound they're named for, or reduce the severity of a wound one or more steps. As follows...

Cure Minor Wounds: Cures minor wounds, or reduces the severity of a wound by one step.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures light wounds, or reduces the severity of a wound by two steps.
Cure Medium Wounds: Cures medium wounds, or reduces the severity of a wound by three steps.
Cure Serious Wounds: Cures serious wounds, or reduces the severity of a wound by four steps.
Cure Critical Wounds: Cures critical wounds, or reduces the severity of a wound by five steps.
Heal: Heals all injuries[/list]

Note that Heal is the only healing magic that can affect more than one wound at a time. Only one Cure can be applied per day, and there must be at least 24 hours per application of a Cure

The sticking point right now is in assigning penalities and effects. Minor and light wounds would have effect in the aggregate. So much blood loss for so many injuries. Perhaps some impairment in function in the case of light wounds. It's with medium wounds and worse that the ability to function wound get really screwed up. Say severe bruising, damage to muscle tissue or the breaking of bone, that sort of thing. With shock playing its role. For added fun bruising, cuts, and holes would present problems of their own. As would burns of various sorts, toxins, and like bodily insults. Ideas are welcome.

BTW, this uses the damage ratings for weapons from Dangerous Journeys instead of d20, as well as the DJ strike location system. For instance, a broadsword can do as much as 4d6x4 in damage, plus strength bonus and a bonus for experience for fighting types.

Your thoughts?

Quote from: mythusmageI've put the following together for d20 type games (D&D etc.):

Multiply Con by 6, then divide by 5. In the case of remainders, divide those evenly at one point per category. So a PC with a Con of 13 would get 78 points (13x6) with 15 per category and 3 points left over. So the first three categories would have 16 points, and the final two 15.
Your thoughts?

Yar, that is too many steps by far, Mythus.   Seriously.  Given the numbers you are likely to wind up with in the end, why not just use straight con for the catagories?


Seriously. If you say something about realism, Ima smack you good.

Quote from: SpikeYar, that is too many steps by far, Mythus.   Seriously.  Given the numbers you are likely to wind up with in the end, why not just use straight con for the catagories?


Seriously. If you say something about realism, Ima smack you good.

Because my way gives you more hit points.

Besides, DJ weapon damage is geared for characters with hit points that come in at about 6 times d20 Con, and I don't feel like adjusting DJ weapon damage when 6 times Con is easier to handle.

Quote from: mythusmageBecause my way gives you more hit points.

Besides, DJ weapon damage is geared for characters with hit points that come in at about 6 times d20 Con, and I don't feel like adjusting DJ weapon damage when 6 times Con is easier to handle.

Again... too many steps.  If you think straight con is too low, add a point or two, since that's what you end up with anyway.

What is easier?

(6X)/5

or X+2?


For the values you are talking about, X+2 is going to give reasonably similar results as the mean, and the 'extra realism' or whathave you is a poor tradeoff for the 'anti-math' crowd. Or even the 'sorta math is not my strong suit' crowd. Or the cheating motherfucker, who writes down 18, when his base Con is 12 and swears he did it right, thinking you ain't checking.

I'm just saying.  Complexity for it's own sake accomplishes only complexity.

Quote from: SpikeAgain... too many steps.  If you think straight con is too low, add a point or two, since that's what you end up with anyway.

What is easier?

(6X)/5

or X+2?


For the values you are talking about, X+2 is going to give reasonably similar results as the mean, and the 'extra realism' or whathave you is a poor tradeoff for the 'anti-math' crowd. Or even the 'sorta math is not my strong suit' crowd. Or the cheating motherfucker, who writes down 18, when his base Con is 12 and swears he did it right, thinking you ain't checking.

I'm just saying.  Complexity for it's own sake accomplishes only complexity.

18x6/5=21.5 Or 21 with 3 remaining. Your x+2 doesn't work. Besides which, realism has nothing to do with it. DJ damage ratings govern it, since I'm using DJ damage ratings instead of D&D. As for the anti-math crowd, maybe I don't want the anti-math crowd playing the damn game. Especially those so math phobic simple multiplication and division makes them poop their shorts. I'm not out to please everybody, and anybody who says I have to can kiss my grits.

Quote from: mythusmage18x6/5=21.5 Or 21 with 3 remaining. Your x+2 doesn't work. Besides which, realism has nothing to do with it. DJ damage ratings govern it, since I'm using DJ damage ratings instead of D&D. As for the anti-math crowd, maybe I don't want the anti-math crowd playing the damn game. Especially those so math phobic simple multiplication and division makes them poop their shorts. I'm not out to please everybody, and anybody who says I have to can kiss my grits.

I am well aware that at the top end, that is 18, the poor bastard is slighted.  The comment wasn't necessarily regarding the math challenged so much as the fact that extra steps for essentially no REAL purpose slows game play. Now, while character creation is hardly going to occur several times a game, the fact of the matter is that each unnecessary step is cumulative.

Its not multiplication or division I object to, it's multiplictation and division stacked side by side to reach a number very nearly identical to what x+2 would provide across most of your range.   Your comments about DJ ranges is pointless to the topic at hand.   I am talking about the needless complexity of your system and you are talking about a game you aren't apparently even playing... just using for inspiration.

Spike,

When you can start adressing what I proposed, instead of kvetching about your perceptions, then I shall consider what you have to say. But somebody besides you will have to inform me, because I don't have the time to deal with your anxieties. Plonk.

Plonk? Does this mean I'm ignored? Oh, goody!

Anxiety? Yes, I'm terribly anxious.  This might explain why DJ is such a marginalized game, as few people really want to go through such a convoluted mess.   I'm sure I've got an ulcer now. Woe is me... woe and woe, all is woe.

:rolleyes:

OK.  That was kind of a sidetrack.

For reference purposes, I agree with both Spike and Mythusmage.  I agree with Spike in that the more math you have in things, the more it muddies up the waters.  I'm actually very nervous about my damage system because it requires players to divide numbers on the fly, which is typically the mathematical operation which everyone is slowest with.  But generally (against mooks) the operation will be simple comparison: "Is the damage inflicted greater than the wound threshold?"  If the answer is yes, then the matter is more or less settled in most cases.  You always want to try and minimize calculations during play.  On the other hand, pre-calculated values can have more complex formulas and not impact play.  I wouldn't do like the old SPI game Universe and have stats which involve cube roots of fractions, but a fairly simple multiplication and division operation isn't too bad.  The key is to keep the calculation out of actual play time.  Make sure it's pre-recorded.

And that is a good segue to my next point.  I want attack rolls to affect damage.  There are three methods I've thought of to handle this:

Simple Multiplier = Divide the total attack roll by 10 (round down) to determine the multiplier for damage.  In practice this will merely mean looking at the tens digit, and multiplying the damage by that amount.  It's very simple, but it doesn't take defense into account.  The defense total could have been high enough that even a 37 barely struck, yet the damage would still be x3.

Calculated Multiplier = Subtract the defense total from the attack total.  Divide by 10 (round down) and add 1.  The result is the damage multiplier.  This would be more plausible in terms of simulation, but involves double digit subtraction, simple division, and a tacked on additive operation which just sort of dangles there.  In terms of complexity, I think it's more than should be asked for with each successful attack roll.

Calculated Additive = Subtract the defense total from the attack total.  Divide by 5 (round down).  The result is the number of bonus damage points inflicted.  I'm leaning towards this one at the moment.  It still has the troublesome double digit subtraction, but I have an unexplainable feeling that counting 5 point blocks that the attack succeeded by is easier than the Calculated Multiplier method.

Any other ideas?