In 2007 I decided to start work on a project that has plagued me ever since, called Wuxia Space Opera. I've posted some ideas here, even on t'other site (where I simultaneously heard about this), even on a long abandoned blog. Throughout the past few years iv'e gone back and forth on this idea.

Several months ago i started a post apocalyptic rpg idea. Then I started playing Final Fantasy 13 and the idea of the 'fal'cie' (in short big ass ancient super magic robots that govern aspects of life in the setting). This illuminated some aspects of the Wuxia Space Opera idea i had been stuck with. So i started back on that again, but again i've reached an empass.

The fundamental problem is the merging of what is, essentially, fantasy (kung fu, chinese mythology, taoist theory/cosmology, etc) with science fiction. How the two can coexist in a unique way that doesn't beat the reader over the head with 17 pages of nonsense (ive got a google docs file that big filled with strange, weird and wonderful but not necessarily good ideas). Wuxia Space Opera should be something that people can just grokk - it's essentially star wars ffs. Everyone can visualise kung fu robots, spaceships and such like. But to quantify these ideas is actually very hard. It's the easiest thing to write up a blurb that sounds cool, but to actually produce a setting that makes sense is another matter.

The core of the idea is a strange mix of 40k's Immortal Emperor concept and feng shui: essentially there is a throne that serves as the focus for the galaxy's (the 10,000 stars) lifeforce - chi. But how this works is rather difficult to quantify. Feng shui is all about manipulating chi so it flows optimally bringing prosperity. That's essentially the idea of the throne, and whoever sits on it is the numero uno. Nailing this idea is rather difficult.

On each of the settled worlds of the 10,000 stars - the Cultured Worlds, as they are known - exists a Great Dragon. These are, like FF13's fal'cie, inexplicable all pwoerful machines that provide much of the infrastrucutre and serve as nodes in the great universal flow of chi.

As i write this, i realise it might make no sense, or complete sense. The problem is it al seems foggy to me. The ideas need to be simple and straightforward. Mainly because I can't be arsed to write 300 pages of rpg, least of all because my eyes will burst and no one will ever be interested.

I guess I'm missing something. You're explaining it well enough for me. It sounds mostly like background fluff so here's what I suggest: write the mechanics the way you envision them. Explain what sort of kewl stuff Chi can do, powers, etc. Then go back and tweak the fluff to match at which time you'll probably get some new ideas for powers so rinse and repeat.

I find something similar happens if I get too hung up on writing adventure backgrounds for the adventures I publish. So what I do is write an outline of the background, then flesh out the setting location, then work on the major npcs, by which time I usually have some solid ideas for encounters. Then I go back and tweak each section as needed, write and rewrite until I'm sick of looking at it.

The main thing is to keep writing. Don't get hung up on one section, especially if it's not clicking, because it will drain your desire to complete it. You've got to keep writing until you find that groove.

Pete

It sounds like a more oriental version of those very, very early Star Wars sketches and concepts, the ones where all stromtroopers have lightsabres and shields and Darth Vader is a sort of bounty hunter.

The main problem I have is that you haven't us anything to visualise the world by. Stuff like the Great Dragon machines or the throne - those are things most characters will never see or possibly even hear about. If you want us to get an image of what you're doing, give us things that come up in actual play: three different but typical adventures. Ten people PCs might meet. The practicalities of interstellar travel - so far we don't even know if spaceships are as ubiquitous as cars or if there are no spaceships at all because everything is done with Star Trek teleporters. What is a typical street like with its buildings, shops and passerbys? Is it gothic/noir, is it dirty-cyberpunk, is it ancient China? Is the empire an almost ever-present oppression like in Star Wars, or is it an almost invisible state for the average Joe?

Quote from: pspahn;405930I guess I'm missing something. You're explaining it well enough for me. It sounds mostly like background fluff so here's what I suggest: write the mechanics the way you envision them. Explain what sort of kewl stuff Chi can do, powers, etc. Then go back and tweak the fluff to match at which time you'll probably get some new ideas for powers so rinse and repeat.

I find something similar happens if I get too hung up on writing adventure backgrounds for the adventures I publish. So what I do is write an outline of the background, then flesh out the setting location, then work on the major npcs, by which time I usually have some solid ideas for encounters. Then I go back and tweak each section as needed, write and rewrite until I'm sick of looking at it.

The main thing is to keep writing. Don't get hung up on one section, especially if it's not clicking, because it will drain your desire to complete it. You've got to keep writing until you find that groove.

Pete

I have deliberately avoided doing mechanics until the setting is coherent and codified enough to make sense. But that has yet to happen. However I don't want this to be self indulgent - not least of all becauyse reading what i've written is actually difficult and pages of text (especially torrid split infinitives aren't appealing).

Quote from: Premier;405933It sounds like a more oriental version of those very, very early Star Wars sketches and concepts, the ones where all stromtroopers have lightsabres and shields and Darth Vader is a sort of bounty hunter.

The main problem I have is that you haven't us anything to visualise the world by. Stuff like the Great Dragon machines or the throne - those are things most characters will never see or possibly even hear about. If you want us to get an image of what you're doing, give us things that come up in actual play: three different but typical adventures. Ten people PCs might meet. The practicalities of interstellar travel - so far we don't even know if spaceships are as ubiquitous as cars or if there are no spaceships at all because everything is done with Star Trek teleporters. What is a typical street like with its buildings, shops and passerbys? Is it gothic/noir, is it dirty-cyberpunk, is it ancient China? Is the empire an almost ever-present oppression like in Star Wars, or is it an almost invisible state for the average Joe?

Well this is part of the problem.

For me it's important to have a handle on those 'behind the scenes' things because they are what explains or motivates stuff, even if that stuff isn't always what the player sees. I don't know how to work any other way even though I largely agree.

The concept is ostensibly kung fu space opera, influenced by oriental mythology. However I do not want it to be like Hellas for instance which is purely (greek) myth in space; more like Weapons of the Gods or even Exalted (though less LESS dense, which is the whole point) in the way it is influenced by chinese myth. IE, i want it to be it's own thing and not hung up on chinese myth etc, but greatly informed by those ideas and sensibilities.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;405945I have deliberately avoided doing mechanics until the setting is coherent and codified enough to make sense.

Ha! I know man, but how's that been working out for ya? :-) Sometimes you got to change things up if the gameplan isn't working. Premier gave you some great suggestions. Pick a Cultured World and start fleshing it out instead of just being vague about how you want things to be. You really won't know what works and what doesn't until you start writing.

Pete

The question of how much detail is another question entirely. I don't think i can manage fleshing out 10,000 planets! So what criteria to select for what's important and enough. Obviously no game would do 10,000 worlds. 40K for instance just resorts to categories.

No of course not. But start small. Pick one world that you find most interesting and start writing about its most interesting points. You'll b surprised at how things start to flow once you actually start writing.

I think the setting sounds really great, Ghost Whistler. I sometimes get tripped up when designing Sci-Fi settings because the sheer size of the universe can be daunting.

As far as planets go it's probably safe to assume most planets are pretty much like most small villages in a fantasy setting. Nothing really interesting happens there unless bigger forces have to stop there while passing through. In most cases those planets really just serve as a place for characters to come from.

I would concentrate on the planets which have a large share in the political power and resources of your universe. What is the capitol planet like? Are there sector capitols with powerful semi-autonomous governors? Are there any planets which are industry or technology hubs. Players will want to make their way to those planets after their first big score so they can get hold of interesting or hard to find gear.

As far as the feel of the setting goes, have you checked out the anime Outlaw Star? Some of the aspects are rather silly (ex. the grappler ships) but at its core it's a space opera story that has a plot directly related to the idea of 'galactic chi' and how accessing that power can make someone god-like. Major character (mostly the villains) access the chi to perform powerful semi-mystical and sometimes out-right supernatural feats.

Good luck with your game.

If I can offer up some advice check out John Wick and Jared's Big Three questions of RPG design.

Check this vid for the quick version.

Basically they are:
1. What is your game about? (not the setting, but the theme and issues you want to explore?)

2. How is your game about that?

3. How does your game reward or encourage that behavior?

4. How do you make it fun?

So, what's your theme? How do you tie the mechanics to that theme? How do you reward your players for exploring that theme? And how do you make it fun to explore that theme?

These questions focus more on the mechanics side of things, but I think they're just as applicable to formulating the setting.

A buddy of mine ran Star Trek Super Heroes last year and his players loved it.   I would love to play Feng Shui 40k with kung-fu space marines.

I would consider looking at Lensmen, Phase World (especially CosmoKnights), Metabarons and some cosmic superhero stuff like Green Lantern and Silver Surfer.  

I would totally play L5R in Spaaaace!

I should point out that it's not really like 40k at all, although i have thought what a kung fu take on 40k would be. What i meant was the Throne is the focal point of the Chi of the 10,000 stars and the person that sits on that throne is an all powerful emperor. So it's similar-ish. But it was never grimdark.

Quote from: Grognard;405975If I can offer up some advice check out John Wick and Jared's Big Three questions of RPG design.

Check this vid for the quick version.

Basically they are:
1. What is your game about? (not the setting, but the theme and issues you want to explore?)

2. How is your game about that?

3. How does your game reward or encourage that behavior?

4. How do you make it fun?

So, what's your theme? How do you tie the mechanics to that theme? How do you reward your players for exploring that theme? And how do you make it fun to explore that theme?

These questions focus more on the mechanics side of things, but I think they're just as applicable to formulating the setting.

Thanks, however I've heard these questions before. I'm not sure I agree with the premise behind them. Wuxia Space Opera isn't about anything, in the terms they consider applicable - and I'm not sure it needs to have a theme. Wuxia Space Opera is exactly that. Does space kung fu: science fiction + kung fu/folklore need a theme?

Ok, I envisage the characters as essentially knights errant which is what the Wuxia are/were. That is they are honourable outlaws, so I suppose the themese would be honour, loyalty wisdom, in the face of an oppressive even corrupt status quo. In WSO this manifests on two fronts: The Iron Empire, and the Hell Worlds.

The Iron Empire is the oppressive authoritarian body obsessed with propriety and duty in the harshest confucian sense. It's eponymous leader is Lo Pan meets Palpatine: he is a very very pwoerful figure in many areas and is, like Lo Pan, surrounded by four figures symbolic of the five elements (if you count him as the fifth). These are his mysterious, super powerful martial lieutenants who are inscrutably loyal: Fire Buddha, Storm Buddha, Earth Buddha, and Wind Buddha. They are quintessential manhua characters and masters of their own martial styles. Iron Emperor covets the throne to gain ultimate power.

The Hell Worlds are the forces of corruption and true evil, though their true nature remains in flux in my mind - they could be actual demon forces, or the result of radiation and conflict leading to 'demonisation' if you like. Essentially the Hell Worlds are ruinous places beyond the 10,000 stars were the antithesis of Chi (Devil Breath) exists leading to forms of evil kung fu (Poison Fu) and styles of combat and knowledge that have long been forbidden. The demons of the Hell Worlds seek nothing more than to corrupt or bring down the 10,000 stars and many are drawn by lust for power inadvertently to their cause.

So the characters are fighting a war on both fronts, and like the Rebel Alliance they represent the little guy with a whole galaxy to do so.

The 10,000 worlds were flush with life. The streams of energy that flowed between them surged as humanity terraformed planet after planet, increasing the life force of the galaxy at large.

In all of space there was void, but ribbons of spirit flowed between the worlds. Space-travelers journeyed from world to world traveling on the streams. Those with senses keen enough could even find their location by meditating on the subtle rivers of energy between the stars.

In ancient times, the life force of the universe, at least that known to humanity, was weak. Humanity existed on one world in the spiral arm of a bleak sector... and the world didn't all together seem to want them there. Now, those who meditate on the great spirit sense not just the life force of one world but the life force of 10,000 near-by terraformed worlds.

This increase in energy has become so great, humans with enough focus are able to perform incredible feats of martial arts and spiritual mastery. The powers of Tai Chi Chuan, the Supreme Ultimate Force, are no longer debated. The powers of the internal martial arts are greater even than science and technology. A man, through the use of chi, can destroy a tank with just his fist, or heal a man of illness with just a touch.

The ancient movements of the internal martial arts are still the correct way to direct and control this energy. Against martial arts, the traditional methods of warfare began to fail. Supermen could pass between bullets and destroy tanks with just their bodies. This situation led to the creation of the warrior droid.

Warrior droids have highly complex artificial intelligences that are capable of emotion and reason, giving rise to the spiritual awareness necessary to manipulate chi. Their programming gives them the dedicated focus humans struggle for years to acquire. My utilizing the motions of the ancient internal martial arts, warrior droids are able to quickly develop into unbelievable power houses.

Humans, on the high end, still have the edge in combat. The machine can't produce truly unique, individual techniques and struggles to overcome humans that can reach down into a natural soul to find a deeper connection with the energy of the universe.