I'm working on a homebrew setting completely from scratch and starting from the idea of a Greek/Roman style Republic that survives into the medieval times with the senate still intact. (Yes, I am aware of the role the Roman Empire's collapse played in the development of the feudal system, but this is a fantasy, right? R-right?)

Anyway, I think I have dreamed up a pretty cool way for orders of knights to still exist in this magical land. Chivalry will not quite be the same, but the concept is still pretty much there. But I don't want to call them "sir" (or "ser") as a prefix/honorific. I would like something more Greek themed.

My idea (in very concise form) is that contact with cultures with Mamluk and Samurai analogues has created a sort of fascination within the Republic, especially among the cavalry officers of the Republic's armies. Eventually, that leads to the founding of orders (probably devoted to different deities in the pantheon) with plenty of third and fourth sons and the like signing up.

Any ideas for names/honorifics?

Any other cool ideas for a Republic lasting into the middle ages and how that might look, just toss them in this thread, I'd really appreciate it!

(Some other ideas I had were....  Family Houses in the Roman sense would operate a lot like noble families in a feudal system, but still include concepts like adoption. A lot of Byzantine ideas can probably fit in here, too probably.)

Look to Venice.

Also, republics can still have social orders; in fact the Romans had people known as equites, "knights", who in the early republic were the ones rich enough to equip themselves as cavalry.

Edit: oops, betraying a lack of detailed knowledge of the early republic. You can do your own research to see if the above was precisely true (Wikipedia says no) but in any case, it could be true in your fictional republic. Just bear in mind that these folks will also have more political power.

The medieval period already has what you want. The Communards of Venice, Pisa, Genoa and Amalfi were all republics, as were many of the free cities of the HRE. You might be best off investigating some of them in detail, as they will fill in a lot of the info you want.

Thanks for the resources, guys. Seems like I remember reading about the election of Doges and the nearly comical amount of votes and lots drawing that went on.

There was a very good reason for all those votes and lotteries in Venice. They designed their system very precisely in order to get a republican elected government which represented to some degree the views of the important part of the population without degenerating into the party system which destroyed the rest of Italian republics. This system survived much longer than any modern style party democracy.

Remember that the Middle Ages were very much interested in republics. They developed the mathematical theory of elections and used it extensively in practice. In addition to the free cities (including the entire German Hansa) and national parliaments and councils, there were also the new friar orders, which were (and are) mostly democratic internally.

http://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/politics/papers/2006/mclean02.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramon_Llull
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/07/security_analys_1.html
http://www.libdemvoice.org/alternative-vote-or-venetian-vote-20696.html

Your replies have been helpful and I don't want to appear unappreciative, but I think we're dwelling too much on the existence of democracies in the middle ages, moreso than the survival of a world power democracy into the middle ages.

If the distinction makes sense and it is probably my fault on for not being more clear, but I'm looking for some ideas to flavor what say chivalry would look like coming from a mostly Greek or Roman beginning and what the noble family would look like from a Roman 'House' perspective.

The replies so far have been helpful, I had completely forgotten about the Doges and reading about them has been fascinating and given me plenty of ideas. (The Lull wiki link was pretty cool. Never heard of the guy before.)

Maybe go from this angle: What would Rome sans Emperor look like in the year 1000? And what would Europe look like in the same time if it had taken its lead from this fictional nation?

Again, I really appreciate the help, guys!

Quote from: Kaz;427130Maybe go from this angle: What would Rome sans Emperor look like in the year 1000? And what would Europe look like in the same time if it had taken its lead from this fictional nation?

If you just want the Roman empire in the middle ages, you're gonna have to throw most of what makes the Roman empire the Roman empire out, or else most of what makes the middle ages the middle ages will have to go.

It sounds like you're better off leaving actual history out and just coming up with a fantasy world where things can flow as you want. You can use a Greco-Roman aesthetic if you want to convey that feel to your PCs. But otherwise, it's such a massive stretch of history that I think you're going to be creating a fantasy world anyhow and just recycling the names.

Actually, Byzantium at various times works, except that you never did without an Emperor. You'll want to read about Digenes Akritas and, a little later, the Comnenid, Angelid, and Palaeologan dynasties. These were times when Byzantium was coming under pressure militarily & culturally from the "Latin" crusaders, and state institutions were starting to fall apart, with many concessions made to the landed aristocracy. These two Wikipedia articles might give you some ideas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnenian_army#The_armed_followers_of_the_aristocracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronoia

First off, happy birthday, Pseudo!

Secondly, I feel the same way. The setting will be completely fictional, but with the basis being of a powerful nation that was once the cultural center and remained a republic.

A couple ideas I came up with during my commute:

1. Combining the Oracle at Delphi and the Papacy. Perhaps some kind of Tower of the Prophets that is a religious center, handing down instructions and advice from the gods while also maintaining spies throughout the nation and getting into the senate's business.

2. Using ideas from both Roman games and Jousting tournaments or fairs. Instead of jousting, maybe the popularity of the chariot races continue, but the knights still take part. Perhaps races with wooden weapons and no real rules (you can knock the other riders from their mounts). Instead of javelin throwing, archery contests among the lower classes, etc.

So, I don't want to be tied to real life and actual history, but I would like to stay as closely as I can as to give it an air of authenticity. Failing that, I just want it to be cool and a fun place to game.

Once more, thanks!

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;427148Actually, Byzantium at various times works, except that you never did without an Emperor. You'll want to read about Digenes Akritas and, a little later, the Comnenid, Angelid, and Palaeologan dynasties. These were times when Byzantium was coming under pressure militarily & culturally from the "Latin" crusaders, and state institutions were starting to fall apart, with many concessions made to the landed aristocracy. These two Wikipedia articles might give you some ideas:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komnenian_army#The_armed_followers_of_the_aristocracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronoia

Good points. I read a Short History of Byzantium, which is a gold mine for rpg ideas. Other than some of the obvious (Varangian Guard), the Byzantines had a Bureau of Barbarians, which may have operated as a spy network, which is just the coolest.

They also made use of the Hippodrome and races were still popular (with the fans of some teams even becoming the center of a political upheaval!)

So, I think the spy network definitely gets into my notebook setting here, and the more I think about it, the races/games will definitely replace the Jousting tourneys and fairs aspect.

This Pronoia link is particularly helpful. Thanks!