Though I have been conceptualizing games for as long as I can remember (rebuilding D&D from the ground up, designing my own RPG's, CCG's, boardgames, videogames, war games, card games, you name it) I cannot say I have a single published game to my name. Nor can I say I even have a concept further along the progression scale than scribbled, random notes in a 3-ring binder buried in a box somewhere... one or two developed to statistics mathematics, some spreadsheets and a wordpad file, but that's about it.

I'm tired of being an idea factory with none of my ideas ever seeing the light of day in even a prototype book, let alone reaching the eyes of people who thought the idea was worth spending money on. I'm itching to get something done.

My question is rather simple, yet daunting (at least to me, and what I hope to be anyone attempting to break in to the arena of game design/publication):

What are the major milestones in a game's progression from idea to finished, selling product? What's the process generally assumed to be used to get from milestone to milestone? I'm looking for some idea as to what needs to get done in what order, generally speaking - I realise there are likely a hundred different ways to do this, but I have no idea what those hundred ways are, or even how to go about getting there.

I know it takes dedication, time, and effort - even just outlining the contents of the RPG's book makes that evident (and a rather daunting idea, at that). And that's before I've even solidified, playtested, or *finished* the setting rules for the game to begin with.

Hell, at this point, I don't even need a *successful* product - though obviously that's the end goal - I just need a product at all. I want to have a finalized version of my game in PDF format, on the computer, that I could at least produce one copy of to put on the shelf as "the first damn thing I actually got done."

Quote from: EvilSqueegee;240743Though I have been conceptualizing games for as long as I can remember (rebuilding D&D from the ground up, designing my own RPG's, CCG's, boardgames, videogames, war games, card games, you name it) I cannot say I have a single published game to my name. Nor can I say I even have a concept further along the progression scale than scribbled, random notes in a 3-ring binder buried in a box somewhere... one or two developed to statistics mathematics, some spreadsheets and a wordpad file, but that's about it.

I'm tired of being an idea factory with none of my ideas ever seeing the light of day in even a prototype book, let alone reaching the eyes of people who thought the idea was worth spending money on. I'm itching to get something done.

My question is rather simple, yet daunting (at least to me, and what I hope to be anyone attempting to break in to the arena of game design/publication):

What are the major milestones in a game's progression from idea to finished, selling product? What's the process generally assumed to be used to get from milestone to milestone? I'm looking for some idea as to what needs to get done in what order, generally speaking - I realise there are likely a hundred different ways to do this, but I have no idea what those hundred ways are, or even how to go about getting there.

I know it takes dedication, time, and effort - even just outlining the contents of the RPG's book makes that evident (and a rather daunting idea, at that). And that's before I've even solidified, playtested, or *finished* the setting rules for the game to begin with.

Hell, at this point, I don't even need a *successful* product - though obviously that's the end goal - I just need a product at all. I want to have a finalized version of my game in PDF format, on the computer, that I could at least produce one copy of to put on the shelf as "the first damn thing I actually got done."

For me the steps are:

Conceptualization - getting the idea
Initial development - getting the ramifications of that idea on paper
Alpha Playtest - playing the game with myself as GM, to interpret all the things I didn't write down
Alpha Rewrite - fixing the things I need to fix in the alpha game. This tests the rules and continues until they work.
Secondary development - expansion to fill up the cracks
Beta Playtest - letting others run the game without me there, using the Rules As Written. This tests the expression of the rules, to see if others will understand what you intend.
Beta Rewrite - putting feedback from playtest back into the rules
Editing - making any last minute changes
Proofreading - fixing grammatical and spelling mistakes
Release

Also along the way, I do the illos. Sometimes some of the illos preceed Conceptualization...

-clash

This is my pet theory, but...

I think a lot of people say "I want to make a role-playing game", when maybe they should be saying "I want to make a role-playing product". If making a whole game is too daunting, do a supplement for an existing game: a new class, or some variant rules, or an adventure.

If I was going to write Icar from scratch, I'd do what Clash said. As for Icar, it was many years of playtesting with lots of little iterative changes.

Quote from: Age of Fable;240840This is my pet theory, but...

I think a lot of people say "I want to make a role-playing game", when maybe they should be saying "I want to make a role-playing product". If making a whole game is too daunting, do a supplement for an existing game: a new class, or some variant rules, or an adventure.

It's not so much the idea of making the RPG that's daunting. If anything, it's an exercise in thought that I enjoy[/]. World-building, setting-design, mechanic design, rule concepts, the whole nine yards. If anything, I hope to eventually build on this game and release additional material sourcebooks for it, maybe even build on the system with more settings.

I suppose the only thing that seems daunting about it is the actual production process. Coming up with the ideas? Easier than riding a bike for me. I love conceptualizing games of all kinds, television shows, you name it - generating ideas is fun and easy. The part that I've never done, however, is written the ideas down in a book format so that other people could understand them without me explaining it, with all the writing/laying out/art/organizing information/chapters & lists & tables and so on.

Just for clarification, Clash:

Quote from: ClashFor me the steps are:

Conceptualization - getting the idea

Check! Done and done. Idea has been had. It's even being built on and developed (the individual mechanics and rules of the system itself, the setting and how it effects play, so on and so forth)

QuoteInitial development - getting the ramifications of that idea on paper

Is this as easy as just writing out the mechanics and system with all it's options, tables, lists, rules and so on in a document, sans setting/fluff/flavor/chapters/etc?

QuoteAlpha Playtest - playing the game with myself as GM, to interpret all the things I didn't write down

That part I'm familiar enough with: Actually playing the game.

QuoteAlpha Rewrite - fixing the things I need to fix in the alpha game. This tests the rules and continues until they work.

This I assume is cyclical with the alpha playtesting. (Example: "Combat rules too lethal, need to soften it with possible rules X, Y, or Z", then putting them in place and heading back to the Alpha Playtest step)

QuoteSecondary development - expansion to fill up the cracks

I'm not quite sure what you mean here - expansion of what, and cracks in/about what? O.o;;

QuoteBeta Playtest - letting others run the game without me there, using the Rules As Written. This tests the expression of the rules, to see if others will understand what you intend.

That's something I can do. Hand out copies online to friends so they can run playtesting sessions, and give feedback. Righto.

QuoteBeta Rewrite - putting feedback from playtest back into the rules
Editing - making any last minute changes

Again, something I understand.

QuoteProofreading - fixing grammatical and spelling mistakes

And that I understand - in fact, my family's full of editors. (believe me, everyone's a critic and an editor around here...)

QuoteAlso along the way, I do the illos. Sometimes some of the illos preceed Conceptualization...

If by Illos, you mean illustrations, then I have that covered as well. Buncha artists in the family, including myself and plenty of friends and contacts.

Clash's outline makes sense to me, although my playtests tend to be iterative rather than sequential.  

Playtesting is substantially different from just playing.  You want to test your game or supplement to failure - which is difficult and not that fun.  As Clash says, you also want to get it blind tested by people who are not you, learning from your text alone.  And you probably want to test it through continued play, ideally with you as an observer rather than participant.  People who help you playtest are worth their weight in gold.

Quote from: Jason Morningstar;240867Clash's outline makes sense to me, although my playtests tend to be iterative rather than sequential.  

Playtesting is substantially different from just playing.  You want to test your game or supplement to failure - which is difficult and not that fun.  As Clash says, you also want to get it blind tested by people who are not you, learning from your text alone.  And you probably want to test it through continued play, ideally with you as an observer rather than participant.  People who help you playtest are worth their weight in gold.

What do you mean, 'testing it to failure'?

Quote from: EvilSqueegee;240855It's not so much the idea of making the RPG that's daunting. If anything, it's an exercise in thought that I enjoy[/]. World-building, setting-design, mechanic design, rule concepts, the whole nine yards. If anything, I hope to eventually build on this game and release additional material sourcebooks for it, maybe even build on the system with more settings.

I suppose the only thing that seems daunting about it is the actual production process. Coming up with the ideas? Easier than riding a bike for me. I love conceptualizing games of all kinds, television shows, you name it - generating ideas is fun and easy. The part that I've never done, however, is written the ideas down in a book format so that other people could understand them without me explaining it, with all the writing/laying out/art/organizing information/chapters & lists & tables and so on.

The idea is nothing, really. Getting an idea is - as you said, the easy part. Actually making something of it is the gruelling bit, though it gets easier each time.

QuoteJust for clarification, Clash:

"Conceptualization - getting the idea"

Check! Done and done. Idea has been had. It's even being built on and developed (the individual mechanics and rules of the system itself, the setting and how it effects play, so on and so forth)

Great!

Quote"Initial development - getting the ramifications of that idea on paper"

Is this as easy as just writing out the mechanics and system with all it's options, tables, lists, rules and so on in a document, sans setting/fluff/flavor/chapters/etc?

Yes. Putting the bare bones of your ideas into a reasonable facsimile of a document.

Quote"Alpha Playtest - playing the game with myself as GM, to interpret all the things I didn't write down"

That part I'm familiar enough with: Actually playing the game.

Actually, Jason has it right. You try your best to abuse, screw up, and destroy your rules and encourage your players to do likewise. My son is my best alpha tester because he always finds and exploits holes in the rules.

Quote"Alpha Rewrite - fixing the things I need to fix in the alpha game. This tests the rules and continues until they work"

This I assume is cyclical with the alpha playtesting. (Example: "Combat rules too lethal, need to soften it with possible rules X, Y, or Z", then putting them in place and heading back to the Alpha Playtest step)

Exactly. It's iterative and cyclical. When you are satisfied that your game is solid and strong, you move on.

Quote"Secondary development - expansion to fill up the cracks"

I'm not quite sure what you mean here - expansion of what, and cracks in/about what? O.o;;

Expanding the bare bones into a full-fledged game, with all the trimmings. Setting, fluff, explanatory passages, tables, layout. As for cracks, there are always cracks between the rules - by filling the cracks I mean smoothing out the rules so that things flow naturally one to the other, without discontinuities and abrupt transitions.

Quote"Beta Playtest - letting others run the game without me there, using the Rules As Written. This tests the expression of the rules, to see if others will understand what you intend."

That's something I can do. Hand out copies online to friends so they can run playtesting sessions, and give feedback. Righto.

Actually, I prefer handing out copies to people who are acquaintances. Friends will lie and say it looks good. Strangers will not care. Acquaintances don't know you well enough to lie, and will care enough to do the work.

Quote"Beta Rewrite - putting feedback from playtest back into the rules
Editing - making any last minute changes"

Again, something I understand.

That means taking detailed notes, saving email, and using that feedback to make a better game. If you don't, forget about doing betatesting at all.

Quote"Proofreading - fixing grammatical and spelling mistakes"

And that I understand - in fact, my family's full of editors. (believe me, everyone's a critic and an editor around here...)

Excellent. My wife reads my manuscripts.

Quote"Also along the way, I do the illos. Sometimes some of the illos preceed Conceptualization..."

If by Illos, you mean illustrations, then I have that covered as well. Buncha artists in the family, including myself and plenty of friends and contacts.

Perfect. Just be aware of the difference between illustration and artwork. There should be no art in RPGs. Art is a visual work which is complete within itself. Illos are not complete without the work they illustrate. An illustration must illustrate something in the game - a creature, a weapon, a bit of the setting, something to put the reader into the setting. The cover has to be striking - not just competent. it has to have a hook in it to pull the browser into the game, like a pop song.

Hope that all helps!

-clash

Quote from: EvilSqueegee;240871What do you mean, 'testing it to failure'?

Actively attempting to screw your game up by perverting, twisting, exploiting, abusing, twinking, and otherwise subverting the rules while staying within them. When you can't do that, or when it gets to be not worthwhile, you have a solid game.

-clash

1. Concept
2. outline
3. Market analysis
4. write in parallel with art commissions
4.1 System edit to support setting
5. Edit in parallel with printer research
5.1 Solicit to distro, prepress advertising
6. Playtest
7. Edit 2
8. Blind Playtest
9. Edit 3
10. Final Layout
11. Print
12. Ship to distro, do pre-release on site
13. ?
14. Profit

Bill

Quote from: HinterWelt;2409141. Concept
13. ?
14. Profit

This is game development with class!

Quote2. outline
3. Market analysis
4. write in parallel with art commissions
4.1 System edit to support setting
5. Edit in parallel with printer research
5.1 Solicit to distro, prepress advertising
6. Playtest
7. Edit 2
8. Blind Playtest
9. Edit 3
10. Final Layout
11. Print
12. Ship to distro, do pre-release on site

Art commissions, printer research, press, advertising, and pre-release are stages I have little to no experience/familiarity with. Any basic rundowns or places to look online that would explain what these things entail?

See Clash again.  Sit down with players and ask them to ruthlessly abuse your game's mechanics in the context of actual play.  See what breaks and what doesn't, and then decide which things are systemic and need a fix and which are just people being dicks.  Fix the former.  

I'll reiterate that this is in no way fun for anybody, but it is really necessary.  If you focus on entertaining playtests, you'll have no way of knowing how much of the game's success is related to your enthusiasm and the social dynamic until you (hopefully) blind test, at which point it will collapse like a house of cards.  Or, even worse, it won't.

Quote from: EvilSqueegee;240930Art commissions, printer research, press, advertising, and pre-release are stages I have little to no experience/familiarity with. Any basic rundowns or places to look online that would explain what these things entail?

I know it is the Great Satan here, but assuming you are designing your own game, The Forge's Publishing sub-forum is exactly what you are looking for.  It's a good place to ask these sorts of practical questions and get answers from people who have been through the process.

If you put Hinterwelt's outline together with mine, I think you'll have a remarkably complete roadmap to developing and self-publishing games.

Listen to Jason! The worst thing that could happen is that your game goes out to the public, then crashes and burns because it the mechanics depend on group goodwill and a good GM who knows the game. Test everything before it ever goes out to the public, and test it rigorously, ruthlessly, and repeatedly.

-clash

I'm similar to Clash, with a lot more alpha testing, rewriting, kicking myself, rewriting, and so on added in there.