...is that you're a freak and everyone hates you.
 
If you're building games you probably enjoy it. Unfortunately, odds are that most players don't; they're in it to kill monsters and fantasize about doing hot elf chicks.
Game design is like programming in this regard - end users don't care about how sexy the code is, only if there are bugs in that crash the program. They don't care about 'the math' (aside from a few folk who have been successfully convinced its critical to game balance), aren't excited by your fascinating new way of rolling 3d8 to determine hit location realistically, and think of every additional rule you build in is as more unwanted 'fun tax'. Unless you can add something noticeably awesome to the players without too much mechanical overhead, don't bother.

And those people are well served with the OSR games out there and coming! Huzzah for them!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;619718And those people are well served with the OSR games out there and coming! Huzzah for them!

-clash

Indeed. I'll keep writing my wee unloved little games..

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;619706elf chicks.
Game

I agree with everything in this post, except the missing line between Chicks and game.

"That's about standards..."

Quote from: flyingmice;619718And those people are well served with the OSR games out there and coming! Huzzah for them!

-clash

Meow!

Honestly I've little idea what OSR means and don't really care one way or the other. I think it has something to do with D&D, last I checked they were making distinctions based on capitalisation... hey, there's a man vanishing up his own jacksie...

When I'm cooking up games or a setting I'm right there with the players having a blast. I feel like my avatar to your left, cackling insanely while taking a spanner to the internals of the universe, surrounded by blue and green spikes of static electricity. I love it, it's a living thing. I want to infuse everything with that life. If it goes in, it's awesome by definition.

Does that make me a freak? Damn right it does! And thank whatever god you believe in for freaks.

I think "will a six year old who want to be a Tyrannosaurus be able to understand this rule" is a good guideline for me for how complicated stuff should be allowed to get on the player's end of things. At least for most games

We have to remember it has all been done before.  (I can make tall people with pointed ears and call them anything, but they are elves in some way.)  If a person has played any game system, they get the basics.  Sure, there is a place for telling people "What is an RPG", but it shouldn't be the focus of the introduction.  We forget at times that designers are players (that being we designers forget) and start looking at a game as (as stated) math, cool ways to roll dice, new worlds, rehashed settings, and lots of spare paper.  We look at games like the film industry looks at movies... when is a good time to reboot the franchise...  then destroy what was in an effort to make it better.  Give the players what they want, create innovative worlds, give them good tools (not just cool ones), and KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid!).  That last one I forget at times...

Quote from: The Traveller;620009Meow!

Umm, I wasn't trying to be catty, Traveller! I just meant that niche is really well served already. The fact that it's a huge niche compared to others in the hobby is immaterial. There are a metric buttload of games perfectly suited for this niche. That's awesome, but nothing I'm interested in doing. I think the corollary of this is more important to most designers - be happy with your tiny niches if you want to serve up something else.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;620134Umm, I wasn't trying to be catty, Traveller! I just meant that niche is really well served already. The fact that it's a huge niche compared to others in the hobby is immaterial. There are a metric buttload of games perfectly suited for this niche. That's awesome, but nothing I'm interested in doing. I think the corollary of this is more important to most designers - be happy with your tiny niches if you want to serve up something else.

-clash

Maybe my rant didn't come across right? When I say players want elf  babes and monsters, that could just as easily be baseball groupies and  submarine battles I didn't necessarily mean Fantasy is the one true  way, if that's how it read.

Leaving aside the hyberbole, rway put  it best as KISS. If you want to design niche games hey that's  cool, as long as you realize that! What I was trying to say is that I think newbie designers in particular get excited by odd  (gimmicky) new mechanics, without realizing those things will mainly  excite other designers, and maybe be more fun writing than they are playing.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;620270Maybe my rant didn't come across right? When I say players want elf  babes and monsters, that could just as easily be baseball groupies and  submarine battles I didn't necessarily mean Fantasy is the one true  way, if that's how it read.

Leaving aside the hyberbole, rway put  it best as KISS. If you want to design niche games hey that's  cool, as long as you realize that! What I was trying to say is that I think newbie designers in particular get excited by odd  (gimmicky) new mechanics, without realizing those things will mainly  excite other designers, and maybe be more fun writing than they are playing.

Sorry! I totally misunderstood your argument. I have nothing but agreement for your restatement here. Of course I agreed with what you said initially too.

-clash

eh my bad
Cheers Clash.

The most important principle is that you are building a tool and support to the act of play. What you create is destined to be played. It's not a work of fiction. Not an art piece. Not a thought experiment. Not an edgy spin on whatever. It could be those things as well, secondarily, but it's first and foremost a game. From this, everything else follows.

Quote from: Benoist;621435The most important principle is that you are building a tool and support to the act of play. What you create is destined to be played. It's not a work of fiction. Not an art piece. Not a thought experiment. Not an edgy spin on whatever. It could be those things as well, secondarily, but it's first and foremost a game. From this, everything else follows.

Totally agree. When designing, my #1 principle is that the game must be fun. That hones everything else that I do.

...bring your own whiskey. And tequila. And vodka.

Quote from: Eisenmann;621504Totally agree. When designing, my #1 principle is that the game must be fun.

Actually, what Benoist said was that it should be designed to be played, not necessarily that it should be fun .