A topic that has come up in the past, though never directly, is regarding certain genre conventions and how they might, or should, be applied to the game during the design stages.

For example, in your Zombie genre, a 'weakness' leveled at most of the games out there is that the zombies are treated as monsters, rather than, say... an environment. To be true to the Zombie genre the other PC's are the real threat.  

In the Super's genre, it's 'Not about the powers, its about the Protagonists and the soap opera drama that comes with wearing tights!'.  After all, a true super will already have, or spontaniously develope, exactly the right power to handle whatever threat is tossed at him, but dealing with the consequences of his ex-wife, who is really the clone of his one true love, turning into a demon from hell isn't something you can just handle with powers... it requires FEELING. Or something.

Is the heart of Pulp 'Action' or is it 'Optimism'?  Is transhumanism a proper them to explore in your cyberpunk game?







I have the answer.  It doesn't lie in close, literary examinations of 'Genre' or 'theme'; it doesn't lie in any high handed academic studies, or intellectuliod posturing theories.  It lies in how we game, why we game. Not why we play 'Supers' or whatever, why we game in general.  I don't know about you, but when I set my way back machine for....way back, I come up on the childish glee of wishing 'I could do that'.. be it swing a sword at a dragon, fly and blast folks with the awesome powers, or blow apart zombies with a shotgun.  

Now, these days I'm a bit older, and bit wiser and a bit more mature. In theory. But when it comes to sitting down at the table, all I really want to do is recapture some of that 'I wish I could do that' magic.    I don't much care for the 'deeper meanings' of shit, or the emulation of 'genre conventions'.  Some folks do, some folks don't.  

Now, if I extrapolate gaming to, say, movies I get a sort of analog here. See, I love stupid movies, sure. But I love disecting every aspect of the film, good or bad, and catching on to some awesome shit (like the fact that  Neo is the only Character (as opposed to NPC) in teh Matrix films who wears non-reflective clothing... what does it mean?... you know what? Nobody want to talk about that shit with me.  They represent your mainstream gamers. They don't care about the high-falutin' shit. Sure, it's awesome if its the infrastructure of a fun game, but you bring that shit to the front and they'll get bored, they'll walk away.

They are, like I am in gaming, interested in having fun. Presto, the heart of the game.  If Superman doesn't fly, they'll demand their money back. If he doesn't moon after Lois Lane some internet geeks will bitch.


Ima gonna highlight me some important shit and let this discussion roll...

I think it's important not to lose the basics when messing with the details.

Gamma World D20 got wrapped up in nanotech, societies, and forming a history and forgot that the heart of the game was cool mutations and fighting weird stuff.

A problem occurs when people disagree about even the core is.  Not everyone wants the same thing from supers; some want the angst, some want godlike powers, some like crime fighting, some want golden age thoughtless pounding on bad guys.

Good point.

I've seen a lot of games where they take a "setting" and layer a generic RPG system over top of it.  Actually, this is probably exactly the complaint so frequently levelled at White Wolf's Vampire game or any of the one's mentioned in the "Bait and Switch" thread.

Quote from: NicephorusA problem occurs when people disagree about even the core is.  Not everyone wants the same thing from supers; some want the angst, some want godlike powers, some like crime fighting, some want golden age thoughtless pounding on bad guys.

That's why it's best to have lots of different games.

Quote from: droogThat's why it's best to have lots of different games.

Until there is one game to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them...


The core of the game is simple, childish fun. All else is gravy.  Good gravy can make bad food paletable, and good food doesn't need gravy (good or bad)...but good food and a selection of gravy can make everyone happy in their pants... if they wear any.

Quote from: SpikeThe core of the game is simple, childish fun.

For you, right?

This looks like it'll be a real interesting topic, once it starts up.

So, Spike:  You said you were gonna highlight some important, core stuff.  We're all ears.  What'choo got?

Quote from: droogFor you, right?

For the supermajority, actually.  D&D is the God of RPGs for a reason.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerFor the supermajority, actually.  D&D is the God of RPGs for a reason.

What the fuck do I care about the 'supermajority'?

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerFor the supermajority, actually.  D&D is the God of RPGs for a reason.

Are you saying that D&D is simple, childish fun?  I really don't agree with that.

This is an excellent thread that's really made me think about game design.  You find the core of whatever genre your working in (or at least your concept of the core), and then every detail you add to the game (mechanic or setting) is then judged against that concept

Me likie

Quote from: LostSoulAre you saying that D&D is simple, childish fun?  I really don't agree with that.

At its heart, yes.  That's not a bad thing.  The pure challenge of a well-designed dungeon is the heart of the hobby, and yet it is simple and childish fun.  Sure, it is quite possible to expand upon that heart and make something complex and mature out of that--I've done so, as have many others--but to deny the heart of the hobby (and thus the power therein that draws and keeps so many into it) is foolish, however well-intentioned, because that heart is a great strength.

Quote from: droogWhat the fuck do I care about the 'supermajority'?

Sooner or later you will lose your current group.  If you wish to maintain yourself as an active hobbyist, then you must create a new group.  To do that you will have to deal with the rest of the gamers out there.  Ignoring D&D means that you will cut yourself off of the vast majority of the tabletop gamers in the world, and that doesn't do anything to guarantee that you'll get the folks that you want at your table.  Knowing D&D and the audience that plays it goes a long way towards being able to effectively and efficiently achieve that goal, no matter what you think of D&D, as it is--and ever shall be--the standard against which all other RPGs--tabletop, console and online--are measured against.

I'm doing fine, thanks.

QuoteWhat the fuck do I care about the 'supermajority'?

You might care what's popular if:

You are designing games or working in the gaming industry.

You are trying to setup a new gaming group, or find new players for your group.

If you aren't doing those things, and have a group that you're enjoying playing [whatever game] with -- who cares what everyone else is doing.