Has anyone ever done this? It might be accomplished using a diceless system proper (e.g. ADRPG), or a variation on another system (e.g. AD&D).

You would certainly use the OD&D method of trap finding (that is, "manual" searches). An elf might be able to automatically find secret doors as long as he was moving carefully. Combat would be descriptive (as per Amber), although many different health systems would work. Many actions that normally require die rolls would come down to GM judgment; for example, listening at a door would simply allow the players to hear whatever could reasonably be heard through a door.







As a side note: What diceless systems are there that do not rely on a metagame resource? I know of Amber, Nobilis, and Marvel Universe.

Theatrix was a pretty good system. Long out of print now.

It's just WRONG.

Quote from: greylond;339557Theatrix was a pretty good system. Long out of print now.

Theatrix involves "Plot Points" to perform actions. This is what I meant by a "metagame resource".

I would concede that the "Stones" of Marvel Universe could be considered the same.

Didn't Rick Swan (he used to review games for Dragon Mag ) run his D&D games diceless ?

Regards,
David R

Diceless D&D (and especially diceless AD&D2e throughout the 90s)  wasn't unusual where I was, but it rarely involved dungeons.

Does anyone else remember the dungeon-shame of the 90s? It was like that was  not cool anymore. I was so excited when 3e came out and promised to go "back to the dungeon".

All that you really need for a dungeon crawl in Nobilis is an excuse for entering some hostile underground Chancel. Heck, it might even be your own realm, if the Imperator is slumbering and the local Landlord left in charge has gone mad with power. As I recall, this topic has come up before in the past.

(Miracle points in the game are no more a "metagame resource" than, for instance, the Strength attribute in D&D is. The PCs may not call them that, but they know fully well that one point represents precisely enough miraculous energy to perform a single normal miracle.)

Quote from: David R;339570Didn't Rick Swan (he used to review games for Dragon Mag ) run his D&D games diceless ?

Would that be in (un)reason's Let's Read thread?

Quote from: GrimGent;339671All that you really need for a dungeon crawl in Nobilis is an excuse for entering some hostile underground Chancel. Heck, it might even be your own realm, if the Imperator is slumbering and the local Landlord left in charge has gone mad with power.

I was thinking more about the mechanics of a crawl, rather than how to set up a dungeon.

Quote from: GrimGent;339671(Miracle points in the game are no more a "metagame resource" than, for instance, the Strength attribute in D&D is.

I didn't mean to say that they were.

Quote from: Hieronymous Rex;339860I was thinking more about the mechanics of a crawl, rather than how to set up a dungeon.

Well, Nobilis effectively runs on a roll-over system without dice, as it were, replacing random chance with resource management. Obviously you lose the vicarious thrill of the idea that sheer bad luck may kill the PC at any time, but apart from that there's no real difference from randomized mechanics.

For example, perception is automatically governed by the Aspect attribute, meaning that finding secret doors would depend on their difficulty level, from 0 (not really hidden at all) to 5 (concealed so thoroughly that no ordinary human could possibly notice them). Miracle points can be exhausted for additional effort if the characters suspect that they might be missing something, so that someone with Aspect 1 might search a particular corridor at Aspect 3 by spending two points; and it's also possible to purchase, say, a personal Gift for detecting all hidden entrances in the vicinity at no extra cost.

There's one I read once.  It's one of them internet freebies.  I'm pretty sure it was just called Dungeon, which is of course making it a pain in the ass to find.

It was one of those GMless things, where the players bid on shit or something like that.  I think it was more of a screw your neighbor thing though, one player could make a trap or monster, to try and end the others.

EDIT:  I'm wrong.  It's Fungeon, and it's not diceless, just GMless.  It's here:  http://www.harlekin-maus.com/games/fungeon/fungeon.html

It's simple enough some clever bastard could probably manage to make it diceless somehow.  I'm mostly saying that to make myself feel better about wasting everyone's time though.

Quote from: GrimGent;339895Well, Nobilis effectively runs on a roll-over system without dice, as it were, replacing random chance with resource management. Obviously you lose the vicarious thrill of the idea that sheer bad luck may kill the PC at any time, but apart from that there's no real difference from randomized mechanics.

For example, perception is automatically governed by the Aspect attribute, meaning that finding secret doors would depend on their difficulty level, from 0 (not really hidden at all) to 5 (concealed so thoroughly that no ordinary human could possibly notice them). Miracle points can be exhausted for additional effort if the characters suspect that they might be missing something, so that someone with Aspect 1 might search a particular corridor at Aspect 3 by spending two points; and it's also possible to purchase, say, a personal Gift for detecting all hidden entrances in the vicinity at no extra cost.

The problem with the mechanics of Nobilis is that they only make sense for that setting. Characters in a gritty, D&D-style dungeon crawl don't have miraculous powers (not all of them, anyways) so miracle point allocation wouldn't work for that sort of game.

Quote from: Hieronymous Rex;339562Theatrix involves "Plot Points" to perform actions. This is what I meant by a "metagame resource".

I would concede that the "Stones" of Marvel Universe could be considered the same.

Taking out the "Game" elements just turns it into a self-masturbatory "group storytelling" event. If I sit down at a table to play a "Game", I want to play a Game. That is afterall what the "G" in RPG stands for...

Quote from: The Worid;340040The problem with the mechanics of Nobilis is that they only make sense for that setting. Characters in a gritty, D&D-style dungeon crawl don't have miraculous powers (not all of them, anyways) so miracle point allocation wouldn't work for that sort of game.

That's simply a matter of tweaking the background out of the system and possibly putting a cap on the ability ranges, though. Another diceless game, Active Exploits, does something similar in a more generic fashion: as I recall, in it spending points represents only additional "effort" instead of chi or what have you.

Quote from: greylond;340071Taking out the "Game" elements just turns it into a self-masturbatory "group storytelling" event. If I sit down at a table to play a "Game", I want to play a Game. That is afterall what the "G" in RPG stands for...

He didn't want metagame resources. That's big difference from "no mechanics".

Quote from: GrimGent;340074That's simply a matter of tweaking the background out of the system and possibly putting a cap on the ability ranges, though. Another diceless game, Active Exploits, does something similar in a more generic fashion: as I recall, in it spending points represents only additional "effort" instead of chi or what have you.

While I could see changing Miracle points into something like Vitality points or Focus points that everyone has, I'm not sure that something like that would work in a half-way realistic (oh dear, time for an argument) fashion. Active Exploits has too many point pools to keep track of for my taste. I'm not saying that it's impossible, just unlikely.

In consideration that there is a board devoted to ADRPG, it can be assumed that this site has many ADRPG players. As a result, it is reasonable to assume that some of these people have attempted a dungeon crawl in that system.

RPGPundit, I summon you from your ebony chamber, where you sit wrapped in lotus-dreams of evil!

Also jibbajabba, just in case.