Quote from: StormBringer;590053And what is preventing you from posting only the sets that give the results you want, and why can't the other person just do that?

Re-read his post.

Quote from: This Guy;590054Re-read his post.

Reading comprehension isn't his strong subject, or his friends. Just ignore them entirely. As I'm assuming that means no, we need something mutually agreeable correct?

As for an arrangement, I suggest a game hosted live on an online service like roll20.net, observed by a third party who can be trusted to be impartial and avoid derailing the event with side-commentary.

Quote from: This Guy;590057As for an arrangement, I suggest a game hosted live on an online service like roll20.net, observed by a third party who can be trusted to be impartial and avoid derailing the event with side-commentary.

That's fine with me. I don't know anyone here that can be impartial or avoid derailing the demonstration with side commentary as this thread has demonstrated. I'm not sure such a person exists.

Quote from: This Guy;590054Re-read his post.

In other words, with a proven vested interest in making sure his point is 'correct', we are to assume his integrity is above reproach, but the party is assumed guilty until proven innocent.

I smell a ringer.

Quote from: StormBringer;590066In other words, with a proven vested interest in making sure his point is 'correct', we are to assume his integrity is above reproach, but the party is assumed guilty until proven innocent.

I smell a ringer.

Would you like my posting credentials?  You can google "This Guy," which I use on all RPG posting sites, and see what comes up.  Posts on RPGnet's videogame forums and some old battle reports from my Napoleonics campaign.  I'd never heard of the 'denners' or whatever until they started posting here.

Quote from: This Guy;590068Would you like my posting credentials?  You can google "This Guy," which I use on all RPG posting sites, and see what comes up.  Posts on RPGnet's videogame forums and some old battle reports from my Napoleonics campaign.  I'd never heard of the 'denners' or whatever until they started posting here.

Yeah.  Anyway, you two have fun playing with yourselves, I've said about all I need to.  It's not going to demonstrate anything, but the process should be amusing to all involved.

Quote from: StormBringer;590077Yeah.  Anyway, you two have fun playing with yourselves, I've said about all I need to.  It's not going to demonstrate anything, but the process should be amusing to all involved.

Yes.  That's the point.  Absent the precious little war going on regarding the correct way to play pretend elves, it sounds like a fun challenge.  Maybe I'll win, maybe not, but it'd be neat to try.

Quote from: This Guy;590080Yes.  That's the point.  Absent the precious little war going on regarding the correct way to play pretend elves, it sounds like a fun challenge.  Maybe I'll win, maybe not, but it'd be neat to try.

There's a reason I told you to just ignore him. You're seeing that reason now.

I have no idea who this guy (who is named This Guy) is. Right now, he seems like basically a reasonable person. That's more than fine with me.

Edit: So anyways, thoughts on the third party observer thing? If it isn't possible to exploit dice rolls there that shouldn't even be necessary, but if you want one sure. I'm open to ideas, I just don't think anyone here fits the bill.

Just agree on a time and do it live, use something free like Screenmonkey or MapTools that has a die roller built in and can save the chatlogs.

Still not sure what this is supposed to accomplish.  If a non-optimized party doesn't make it through a "standard adventuring day", in one test, it's supposed to prove what?  That they never will?  That on average they won't?

Quote from: CRKrueger;590091Just agree on a time and do it live, use something free like Screenmonkey or MapTools that has a die roller built in and can save the chatlogs.

Still not sure what this is supposed to accomplish.  If a non-optimized party doesn't make it through a "standard adventuring day", in one test, it's supposed to prove what?  That they never will?  That on average they won't?

What most people here think will happen: The party will do just fine, acing it despite the enemies being limited to the same list of weak classes that they are.

What I think will happen and what will certainly happen: The party will get rofflestomped, likely in the very first fight. Not only could they not survive long term so as to play a campaign they could not even make it short term through a single day. There would be absolutely no doubt, even to the densest of people the group is not capable of playing D&D, and the only reason said people think they are is because they're used to DMs that let them play pretend instead because D&D is too hard. Likewise, the reason people keep adamantly attempting to derail the thread with bullshit is so the mods will get pissed off and lock it before they are forced to concede such characters are entirely nonfunctional. As being forced to say anything concrete would make them wrong 100% of the time they must instead hide behind irrelevancies.

I don't think That Guy would do this as in the absence of any evidence to that effect I'm going to assume he's not a basket weaver, but it is true of everyone that is.

That said, OOE still has about 30 hours to make an appearance.

Quote from: Mr. GC;590104I don't think That Guy would do this as in the absence of any evidence to that effect I'm going to assume he's not a basket weaver, but it is true of everyone that is.

That said, OOE still has about 30 hours to make an appearance.

Eh.  I play a lot of different ways.  Sometimes I go non-optimal and sometimes I don't.  It depends on the system and the GM and what intent we're going for.  Of my long-term D&D group, I wasn't the core optimizer, but I could at least avoid embarrassing myself.  Then again, I get the impression that my GM wasn't as serious about a mechanical challenge as you are.

Whether that's "real" roleplaying or not is something I leave for bigger assholes than myself to pontificate.  I just play the games.

Quote from: This Guy;590126Eh.  I play a lot of different ways.  Sometimes I go non-optimal and sometimes I don't.  It depends on the system and the GM and what intent we're going for.  Of my long-term D&D group, I wasn't the core optimizer, but I could at least avoid embarrassing myself.  Then again, I get the impression that my GM wasn't as serious about a mechanical challenge as you are.

Whether that's "real" roleplaying or not is something I leave for bigger assholes than myself to pontificate.  I just play the games.

That's actually a reasonable response. So not basket weaver.

Any idea on the third party thing, or what are we doing about that?

Quote from: Mr. GC;590128That's actually a reasonable response. So not basket weaver.

Any idea on the third party thing, or what are we doing about that?

If we can keep a log of the session in the system we shouldn't need it, although I would recommend keeping it open to observers in case anybody's interested.  I'll have to check to see if it's available.  But all of this is theoretical in my case until OOE is confirmed or denied, so I won't claim to speak for him.

Quote from: This Guy;590131If we can keep a log of the session in the system we shouldn't need it, although I would recommend keeping it open to observers in case anybody's interested.  I'll have to check to see if it's available.  But all of this is theoretical in my case until OOE is confirmed or denied, so I won't claim to speak for him.

I've never heard of that site until now, so can you?

If he does show up, we're just covering the basic questions here so I think it's relevant to him as well.