Every time you post in this thread a star goes out.

Thanks! OK then...I have made 2 more characters so there's a full party of sorts here. I guess I can try running them if there are no other volunteers, and I don't mind wait for TNN to finish so we can attempt two runs of testing, of course.
 
Rounding out the rest of the party we have a charge-power attack fighter and a warmage.
 
 
Turlo
Barbarian 3/Fighter 4
Mongrelfolk - looks like a particularly ill-favoured half-orc
Str 18 (20 w/ gloves), Dex 15, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 4
13+8+6+4+1+0 = 32 +1 Str at L4.
HP: 12+2d12+4d10+35 Con = 12+13+22+28 = 85 HP (99 raging)
 
(Mongrelfolk - Races of Destiny - +4 Con, -4 Cha, -2 Int; low-light vision, +4 racial bonus to Hide/Sleight of Hand, +1 save vs. poison, +2 save against spells targeting or ignoring a particular race, immunity to sleep, Sound Imitation (can mimic any voice or sound heard; DC 16 Will save negates), +1 to Appraise, Climb, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. Favoured class- rogue; Human subtype).
Languages: Common
 
Class features:
*fast movement replaced w/ Pounce special ability (Complete Champion)
Rage 1/day
Uncanny Dodge, trap sense +1
 
 
Skills:
Jump 10, Listen 5, Ride 10, Survival 5
Skill tricks (2 skill points each):
Dismount attack - quick dismount off horse treated as a charge (Complete Scoundrel)
Extreme Leap: On a jump, gain +10ft to movement that turn.
 
Feats:
L1- Two-Weapon Fighting
L3-Leap Attack
L6- Oversize Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighter bonus feats
F1- -Power Attack
F2- Improved Bull Rush
F4- Shock Trooper (complete warrior, PA penalty applies to AC on charge; also Bull Rush gives free trip, and can trip two opponents if push one into the same square as another foe.
 
 
Full attack: +11/+11/+6 (d8+6/d8+3 offhand). (includes -2 TWF penalty)
*power attack/leap attack/charge +2 hit, +14 extra damage , -9 to AC.
 
Saves:
Fort +7 base +4 Con +2 resistance= +13
Ref: +2 base, +2 Dex +2 resistance = +6
Will: +2 base, -1 Wis +2 resistance = +3
+3 competence bonus vs. mind-affecting abilities (Crystal)
 
Items
Gloves of Strength +2 (4000)
2 x battleaxe +1 (2310*2) (edit: note - made on commission to glow; DMG 221,286)
Cloak of Resistance +2
Dagger (2)
Crystal of Mind Cloaking; +3 competence bonus to saves vs. mind-affecting abilities (4000 GP)
Backpack (2)
chain shirt +1 (1250)
Composite Longbow (+5 Str bonus): 600 gp
60 arrows (3 gp); 20 cold iron arrows (2 gp); 10 silver arrows (21 gp);
warhorse, heavy (400 GP)
Military Saddle (60 GP)
40 gp

Matthius
 
Human Spellthief 1/Warmage 6
LN
Str 11, Dex 14, Con 16 (18 w/ bracers), Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 16
(point buy 3+6+10+6+0+7 = 32)
 
6+6d6+28 Con bonus = 55 HP
AC 10+2 Dex +4 armour = 16
 
Class features:
spellthief: trapfinding, steal spell (on successful sneak attack), sneak attack +1d6
Warmage: warmage edge (+Int mod to spell damage), Armoured Mage (light armour)
Eclectic learning (PHB II, replaces Advanced Learning)
L3- can use Detect Magic as a 1st-level warmage spell
L6- can use Web as a L3 warmage spell.
 
Spells:
(spontaneous cast from below list+eclectic learning)
1st - Accuracy, Burning Hands, Chill Touch, Fist of Stone, Hail of Stone, Magic Missile, Orc of [various] Lesser (Acid, Cod, Electricity, Fire, Sound), Shocking Grasp, True Strike
2nd- Blades of Fire, Continual Flame, Fire Trap, Fireburst, Flaming Sphere, Ice Knife, Melf's Acid Arrow, Pyrotechnics, Scorching Ray, Shatter, Whirling Blade
3rd- Fire Shield, Fireball, Flame Arrow, Gust of Wind, Ice Storm, Lightning Bolt, Poison, Ring of Blades, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud
 
Skills
(1st level spellthief)(6+Int mod+human bonus = 9):
Gather Information 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Spellcraft 4, Spot 4, Open Locks 4, Concentration 4, Tumble 4, Knowledge (local) 1, Jump 1,
Knowledge (religion) 1 (cc), Knowledge (engineering) 1 (cc), Know (planes) 1 (cc)
Warmage skills (2+Int mod/level+human bonus = 5/lvl):
+6 Spellcraft, +6 Concentration, +6 Know (arcana), +4 Spot (cc); 4 skill points spent on skill tricks.
 
Skill tricks (complete scoundrel)
*Collector of Stories - 1/encounter, +5 to any Knowledge check to identify monsters and their special abilities.
*False Theurgy - 1/encounter spell appears during casting to be a different spell of the same level (difficult to counterspell)
 
Languages: Common, Draconic, Ignan
 
Feats:
1st-Still Spell, Wild Talent - expend psionic focus to "take 15" on Concentration check.
3rd- Sudden Maximize
6th- Master Spellthief (spellthief level stacks with caster level to determine caster level, level of spells that can be stolen as a spellthief (= 4th level)
 
Saves
Fort +2 base +3 Con +1 resistance; 1/day use Concentration check instead (take-15 w/ +19 bonus)
Ref: +2 base +2 Dex +1 resistance
Will: +7 base -1 Wis
 
Items:
Chronocharm of the Uncaring Archmage (500 gp, Magic Item Compendium) - swift activation, 1/day cast 3rd level or lower full-round action spell as a standard action.
Anklet of Translocation (1400) - 3/day
Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (+5 to Concentration checks)(2500 GP)
Headband of Conscious Effort (immediate action, substitute Concentration check for Fort save, 1/day; 4000 GP)
2 Haste scrolls (Caster level 5; note - on Spellthief spell list)
Artificer's Monocle (1500) - use detect magic to identify magical item in 1 minute.(Magic Item Compendium, pg 72)
Bracers of Health (+2 Con) (4000 GP)
Metamagic Rod, Silent (lesser, 1st-3rd level spells)(3000 gp)
Cold iron Longspear (10 GP)
Thieves tools (30 GP)
Light Mace (5 GP)
Spell component pouch (5)
chain shirt (+4 AC, 1250 GP)
cloak of resistance +1 (1000 GP)
4 scrolls - protection from evil, magic weapon, detect secret doors - (all on spellthief list)
Backpack
2 additional platinum rings (shield other component)(100 gp)
Sunrod (2 gp), 5 torches (5 cp)
20 GP, 9 sp, 5 cp remaining

Right, so skipping past irrelevant basket weaver bullshit.

Ok. I haven't looked over everything thoroughly yet but it all seems to be in order there.

Bloody Stupid Johnson, when building your PCs, keep in mind how they would deal with a bone devil: A creature with reach, poisons, that can fly, turn invisible, teleport, and divide the party with walls of ice.  It has DR/Good and is immune or resistant to many common attacks... It's the poster child for monsters that are tough to deal with.  They need a few more consumables to deal with these abilities, along with cold iron, alchemical silver, or adamantine weapons.  The barbarian looks like he's on the way, but a couple of potions would bolster his ability to deal with problem encounters.

Sir Wulf, you seem to know what you're doing. Here are my sheets so far:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465599
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465161
Keep in mind that my last two characters are a warlock and a healer and will have a lot of spellcasting.
Any advice?

Also, where is that bone devil? I have all the monster manuals but don't know where to find it offhand.

I'm not nearly as splatbook savvy as some of the others around here, but I'm an old hand at organized play.  When you can't be sure who else will be at your table, it pays to be ready for anything.  

In this case, the most versatile spellcasting classes have been disallowed, so you need to be ready to deal with the sort of magical menaces that you might normally target with dispel magic, invisibility purge, protection from evil, and other mid-level magic.  

Since GC seems a competitive sort of fellow, I'd expect him to hit you with some APL+1 or APL+2 encounters that target your party's weakest points.  Encounters that could reasonably challenge such a group might include a 7th level wizard with two 4th level barbarian ogre followers, a pair of advanced (11 hit dice) huge owlbears, or a ten-headed hydra.  

I expect to instead see a single 10th level CoDzilla, a bone devil, or a young adult black dragon (with mage armor and shield up).   Those encounters would put your team through hell.

Bone devils can be found online at D20 SRD Devil.

Quote from: The Noobiest Noobie;597228Sir Wulf, you seem to know what you're doing. Here are my sheets so far:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465599
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465161
Keep in mind that my last two characters are a warlock and a healer and will have a lot of spellcasting.
Any advice?

Also, where is that bone devil? I have all the monster manuals but don't know where to find it offhand.

The Bone Devil thing is an old reference. A couple of months ago another person challenged the gimps to take on a single Bone Devil as a single per day encounter with a 10th level party. It ended at first contact because the party realized it had absolutely no answer to something that can divide and conquer them with illusions and ice walls.

The class restrictions work on both sides so using a wizard or CoDzilla opponent would be violating the rules. There are ways I could get around that but I hardly consider it necessary. There are no restrictions whatsoever on SLAs so I leave it as an exercise to the reader if I would do that or not.

And since this is a "standard adventuring day", certainly no one should be using any monsters that don't appear on the wandering monster charts for that location in the DMG.

Quote from: The Noobiest Noobie;597228Here are my sheets so far:
 (snip...)

Any advice?

Tweak Akali's gear to give her ways past DR (cold iron, silver, and adamantine), a way to fly or strike at range, and a way to deal with invisibility.  She has no magic weapons, but has dedicated a lot of her resources to defense:  I'd balance defense and offense a bit more.  Also, have all her feats been assigned?  She could use some Extra Rage.

Her saves are very good, with the exception of her Will save (a common achilles heel).  You might want to consider ways to protect her against fear effects or compulsions (two of the most common and frustrating Will-save attacks).

In addition to the DR issues noted above, Poppy needs additional weapons.  What does she do if she's grappled, swallowed, or disarmed?  She also needs a ranged fighting option (Javelins might suit her).

I haven't noted it, but characters may also have to deal with hostile environments or underwater combat.  Those threats are less common than some others, but it's wise to devote a few resources to appropriate magic.

Quote from: Mr. GC;597240The class restrictions work on both sides so using a wizard or CoDzilla opponent would be violating the rules. There are ways I could get around that but I hardly consider it necessary. There are no restrictions whatsoever on SLAs so I leave it as an exercise to the reader if I would do that or not.

Your rules seemed to all be about limiting the players' options to establish your hypothesis that a party of "lower tier" classes would thrash about helplessly against the sort of foes that more potent classes would merely find dangerous (APL+1).  As such, a bone devil is the poster child for such troublesome encounters.

I honestly expect GC to pull out slightly less brutal foes, lest he be accused of inflicting encounters that would shred even a party of munchkin powergamers, much less a party of second-stringers.  Nonetheless, if you're ready to take on a bone devil, a dark stalker with assassin levels (deeper darkness at will: Ouch!), or a pyrohydra swimming in 30 ft. deep water, you're ready for anything.

Quote from: Sir Wulf;597164Bloody Stupid Johnson, when building your PCs, keep in mind how they would deal with a bone devil: A creature with reach, poisons, that can fly, turn invisible, teleport, and divide the party with walls of ice. It has DR/Good and is immune or resistant to many common attacks... It's the poster child for monsters that are tough to deal with. They need a few more consumables to deal with these abilities, along with cold iron, alchemical silver, or adamantine weapons. The barbarian looks like he's on the way, but a couple of potions would bolster his ability to deal with problem encounters.

Not really enough resources to cover everything, unfortunately. Invisibility is an issue (no bags of flour in the 3.5 phb, this is an outrage ; the party does have some AoO effects and bless weapon. At worst I can hope to dimensional anchor it, glue it to the floor, cast haste and leg it. But please, no giving the GM ideas - I'm very interested to see what's going to be put up.
 

Quote from: The Noobiest Noobie;597228Sir Wulf, you seem to know what you're doing. Here are my sheets so far:
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465599
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=465161
Keep in mind that my last two characters are a warlock and a healer and will have a lot of spellcasting.
Any advice?
 
Also, where is that bone devil? I have all the monster manuals but don't know where to find it offhand.

Not addressed at me, but I had a quick look and did notice that the gnome has favoured class: rogue so as a Ranger3/Scout4/Barb1 it would have an xp penalty. GC did say 7th level start rather than a specified xp figure, but still I think bad practice. (I went with human for the warmage only due to favoured class, actully - otherwise I could have picked up psionics for free with any psionic race).
 
There is an 'Extra Favoured Class' feat in Unearthed Arcana, or potentially you can find some other way to get Pounce - Hurling Charge or Two-Weapon Pounce would give some extra attacks on a charge but would need +6 BAB, so with scout levels its tricky to pick up with a level 7 character. Maybe there's a magic item somewhere that would help.

Actually, flour is listed among the trade goods:  1 lb. flour is 3 cp.

Most of my melee-oriented characters have the following items:

One or more magical weapons
One or more cold iron weapons
One or more alchemical silver weapons.  
A light weapon
A bow with adamantine, cold iron, and silver arrows
(e.g.: My 1/2 orc barbarian used a +1 cold iron falchion and carried a silver sickle and a +1 bow as alternative weapons)

They also carry the following consumables:
Oil of bless weapon
Potion of fly
Oil of protection from evil
Tanglefoot bags
alchemical fire
lamp oil
flour

Quote from: Sir Wulf;597251Actually, flour is listed among the trade goods: 1 lb. flour is 3 cp.

Thanks!
Will go back, OK will go back and add in a couple of minor items.