TheRPGSite

IT ALL BEGAN WITH A BRAINFART
I had an idea this morning driving through muddled traffic on the way to my office.   It's no surprise driving through traffic would conjure images of playing a badass hero with a tank, but today was something different.  Here's the idea.   Tell me if this is cool or a sure sign of crack smoking insanity!

TANKS: the RPG
You play a tank commander...who lives in his tank.   Your crew does your bidding and you hire your services out to causes and patrons.  You gather with squad of other tanks and delve into gigantic ancient ruins, blast monstrous aliens and enemy tanks, and then loot the area for wondrous tank weaponry of the past.   And you get paid so you can further upgrade or repair your tank...or learn new magic tank spells.

CORE IDEA: Tanks + Classic D&D tropes

You would roll 3D6 for the Tanks attributes.   Then pick a Class of Tank - it could be Support, Combat, Artillery or Stealth and probably a couple of Alien designs as well.   And then you would buy Gear for your tank with your base amount of money.  

As you achieved more kills, your tank would be eligible for higher level upgrades and somehow morph (or be engineered) into more and more powerful versions.  

Adventuring would be at the vehicle level.   In this setting, infantry is meaningless due to the foes on the battlefields and in the ruins.  Roleplay would exist almost entirely in non-combat situations where your 3D holographic avatar would interact with NPCs for the talky-bits of the game.

The look of the game would be akin to Chaos and Ork vehicles in 40k - aka, highly customized and each an individual piece of murderous art.  

And some tanks can cast Magic!  But it won't be called magic.   It will be some kind of techno-wizardry doodadia that lets tanks cast spells.  Vancian tanks baby!  And tank spells will be limited by tank class.  Woot!  No, I'm not kidding.

My brain stopped here...probably to protect what was left of my sanity...but all day I have been flipping back to the idea.   Is there coolness here?  Is there a kernel of fun?  Is it too weird to be playable?

Sounds odd and fun, albeit I might go with small sentient tanks used for Urban combat (i.e outside dungeons), and then have each tanks specialty focus down. Albeit without arms and legs you have some problems, and I suspect it will become a bit more miniature game than rpg in many aspects.

It's not quite the scale of swinging on ropes, climbing walls, snarking at an enemy before using the environment against them that D&D used to be...

After all, what do tanks do? Shoot and move. Well that'...uhm...alright. Oh and shoot and move and scan!

Need a bit more material in there. (Small robot tanks hunting evil mutant creatures to return civilization in a PA world, with class like abilities including Gadgeteers aka magic users? That might be cool.)

sounds strangely entertaining!  kinda video game'y, but still...there's something there.

reminds me of fusing OGRE/Rivets on various War Worlds (like 3:16 (http://boxninja.com/)).  might be a better boardgame than rpg, but regardless it's a cool idea.  also fusing the TC with the tank (like the Dreadnought in 40K, i think?) might be a cool idea as well.

i agree with Silverlion though...odd and fun! :D

The idea of rolling attributes and choosing a "class" for a tank...yech.

But give players a budget to build starting tanks, and we're starting to get somewhere. See: Metagaming's old Helltank game, or the Armored Core series of videogames. The latter is kind of like Battletech but with highly customizable mechs.

Sounds cool to me!

I like the idea of classes for tanks, or more appropriately, classes OF tanks that can be customised a little.  Rolled attributes, though, not so much.

I love the idea of magic tanks casting spells like shrink, fly, teleport or polymorph on themselves!

It's a good, hilarious idea. Make it.

Also, I'm very tired. For the love of sanity, don't make it.

Sounds like you have been listening to too much ELP and Tarkus!

I think the question is what do you get to do other then fight? Because if the answer is "not much", then to me it's not really a roleplaying game. Even such an originally combat-oriented system as D&D (up to and excluding the WotC editions) allows you to do lots of non-combat stuff, and that stuff very often crops up in actual play.

I thought it was going to be that your character was the tank.

Wouldn't your idea just be like a role-playing game in the Car Wars world?

Tank: Whippoorwill
Class: Surveillance Tank
Commander: "Poor" Will Randal (Cdr Bonus +2 to hit, +4 comms)
Level 1
HP: 40

Armor: 12
Treads: 15
Comms: 16
Assault: 10


Main Gun: Sonic Cannon I (+6 to hit, 1d10+8 damage)
Gear: Sonic Cannon I, Creek-Crawler Treads (+2 to move in difficult terrain), Radar-Targeter (provides +2 to hit to 1 ally within range), laser antipersonnel turret I

I would totally play this, haha.

Quote from: Silverlion;285684I suspect it will become a bit more miniature game than rpg in many aspects.

That is my initial design problem.   My goal (that coalesced in the haze of the brainfart) is the game must be an RPG that can be played without minis.   Everything beyond paper and dice would be optional.

Quote from: Silverlion;285684It's not quite the scale of swinging on ropes, climbing walls, snarking at an enemy before using the environment against them that D&D used to be...

Very true.   I have to figure out what the equivalent of these things would be...for tanks.

Quote from: C.Jay;285840I love the idea of magic tanks casting spells like shrink, fly, teleport or polymorph on themselves!

These are the words of a crazy person!!!

And yes, the "magic-user" tanks will absolutely will be doing that!

Quote from: Lawbag;285862Sounds like you have been listening to too much ELP and Tarkus!

I never heard of Tarkus!   I just googled it and I will definitely check it out.  I suspect part of my vision comes from Zakk Wylde's Black Label Society.  There is some crazy art in the Blessed Hellride CD book...including tanks with faces and Doomsday Jesus.

Quote from: Premier;285866I think the question is what do you get to do other then fight? Because if the answer is "not much", then to me it's not really a roleplaying game.

Yes, very true.   I must pulp many brain cells to figure out why and how the non-combat aspect would be interesting and fun.

Quote from: Age of Fable;285920Wouldn't your idea just be like a role-playing game in the Car Wars world?

Kinda.   Except in Tanks, you never get out of your vehicle.   I keep getting images that flip between being trapped inside versus you being the tank itself.   I am unsure.   Hopefully copious amounts of tequila this weekend will solve this dilemma!

Quote from: Spinachcat;285980Kinda.   Except in Tanks, you never get out of your vehicle.   I keep getting images that flip between being trapped inside versus you being the tank itself.   I am unsure.   Hopefully copious amounts of tequila this weekend will solve this dilemma!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no2GNY4GHDE

Just take a look at it.

'They offered me a way out. A way out, they said. Trapped. I was trapped. The doctors, they said that. Trapped. Maybe not in so many words, but trapped. Trapped in scale of "Q-u-a-d-r-e-p-a-l-g-i-c".

So they offered me a way out. Trapped. Move again. Move again, they said. They said I'd move again.

And I can move. I can move, I can thunder, I can roam. Nothing can stop me. Nothing but another. Trapped.

Trapped in a tank.

Trapped as a tank.

Trapped.'

I forgot about Tiny Tank!   He's the cutest little killing machine!  Too bad the game wasn't as cool as the commercial clips.

I am working on reasons why humans or at least their consciousness would be trapped within machines and their only social interactions would be via holographic avatars.

Much of dungeon exploration is tactile, so every tank will have micro-drones to go out an touch/feel/smell the world.   However in OD&D, often touching the "bad thing" would have repercussions...so many you only have XYZ drones and losing them is bad.  Or maybe the world sends direct damaging feedback to the tank body.

The main combat in fantasy is melee and tank combat is mainly ranged.   However, my favorite thing to do in OGRE/GEV was ramming and overruns.   Thus there will be lots of that.   Also, in the case of monsters, many of them will be hand to hand...or claw to tread in this case.

In my fevered brain, I have images Tyranids charging a party of Mechanized Imperial Guard, Eldar Hovercraft and a few red painted Orc Wagons.   The Orc goes close combat with grindas and choppas while the IG tanks unload first long range and then steamroll bugs under their threads and the Eldar zip about laying down weird weapon effects and using Psi-F/X to change the battlefield.  

Remember that level in Halo when you drive the Warthog down into the underground Covenant base and you drive down ramp after ramp into the darkness?   Yeah, that's Tank Dungeon Crawling.

For variety,  I am going to let players choose manuever type - aka Hover, Wheels, Legs or Treads...but treads will be the default because I want there to be options, but most should be in the classic WW2 mode of the armored crawler.  'Cuz how else are you gonna fight the Giant Centipede?

If you STILL want it to be a group of adventurers inside a "Tank"  - then why not make it a really big and long tank-like vehicle ?

...change the setting to post-apocalyptic and you either have the Landmastrer vehicle from DAMNATION ALLEY or a reall violent version of the Ark from "Ark II".

Or hell - MERGE the two. Your vehicle has really nasty weapons that can blow up just about anything , but it alsoi has a decent scientific lab built inside of it and rations that last a really long time.


- Ed C.

"Ark II" :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujpmM1qQcAI

Damnation Alley scene featuring TWO Landmasters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tI4InQ7fZE

Landmaster/The LEGO Version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ssLae4ETc

I suspect that's the reason mecha are humanoid--because that allows them to do human like things (have hands, use weapons beyond what is mounted on them.) It makes the "tank" more appealing to play it as a person that way.

...A party of tanks!

Quote from: Spinachcat;286285I am working on reasons why humans or at least their consciousness would be trapped within machines and their only social interactions would be via holographic avatars.

Wha?! I thought the whole appeal of this game was that the rules don't say you can't live your entire life in armor. The stereotypical D&D fighter dreams of the day he can eat, sleep, and take a dump in his armor without negative repercussions. No further incentives are needed.
 

QuoteMuch of dungeon exploration is tactile, so every tank will have micro-drones to go out an touch/feel/smell the world.

That's a step in the wrong direction. What the player should imagine is the sensations of being in a tank. Remote drones disembody the player from that experience. You should focus on what it's like to be in a tank and then go from there. Off the top of my head, I'd go with as much tremor sense as possible so that the player can focus on the sensation of over running stuff. (Something you're quite fond of anyway right? :D)
 

QuoteHowever in OD&D, often touching the "bad thing" would have repercussions...so many you only have XYZ drones and losing them is bad. Or maybe the world sends direct damaging feedback to the tank body.

I think touch is the best way to describe the world from within a tank.
 
You investigate a bridge by edging towards it.
You make a perception check to see if it feels tank worthy.
If you're wrong, it colapses.
 
You investigate a wall by probing it with your main gun.
You make a perception check to see if it gives way.
If you're wrong, you damage your turret.
 
You investigate a possible ambush by popping the hatch and spraying an unexploded bomb with bullets.
You make a perception check to see if it's safe.
If you're wrong, you waste a couple shells on it just to be sure.
 
You investigate a possible avalanche by firing a couple of shells at it.
You make a perception check to see if it's stable.
If you're wrong you waste a nuke firing at it -- it was the only way to be sure.
 

QuoteThe main combat in fantasy is melee and tank combat is mainly ranged. However, my favorite thing to do in OGRE/GEV was ramming and overruns. Thus there will be lots of that. Also, in the case of monsters, many of them will be hand to hand...or claw to tread in this case.
 
In my fevered brain, I have images Tyranids charging a party of Mechanized Imperial Guard, Eldar Hovercraft and a few red painted Orc Wagons. The Orc goes close combat with grindas and choppas while the IG tanks unload first long range and then steamroll bugs under their threads and the Eldar zip about laying down weird weapon effects and using Psi-F/X to change the battlefield.

As far as the nids go, as soon as you start overrunning them your tank is essentialy blind. That's another arguement for having a tremorsense-centric perception system, and also a good reason to eschew the God's Eye view of miniatures gaming.
 

QuoteFor variety, I am going to let players choose manuever type - aka Hover, Wheels, Legs or Treads...but treads will be the default because I want there to be options, but most should be in the classic WW2 mode of the armored crawler. 'Cuz how else are you gonna fight the Giant Centipede?

Ok, but don't lose the tank focus.

In what ways would you see it overlapping or departing with Battletech / Mechwarrior?  (Vehicle (Mech) construction, missions, etc.)

A big old game of tanks could be fun, given the right circumstances.  1) Do each player have something fun to do?  2) Does players have distinct roles to play, should they choose to follow them?

Would you see it more as a story driven game or a tactical, get out the maps, game?  Story based would have player them leave their tanks often, which can be alright.  Alternatively, you have intelligent tanks that can "transform" and assume a humanoid shape so they can do things a vehicle couldn't.

Just my wandering thoughts on the subject.  I think a person could spend a lot of time playing with the idea, developing types of stats, and have a good time in the process.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;286626...A party of tanks!

Yup.  Get your Battlewagons up front, make sure your Hierarchs defend the Evokers and have the Corsair cover the rear.

Its a biker gang...with treads and turrets!

Quote from: Silverlion;286447I suspect that's the reason mecha are humanoid--because that allows them to do human like things (have hands, use weapons beyond what is mounted on them.) It makes the "tank" more appealing to play it as a person that way.

This is the disconnect of "Tank as PC".  Powered Armor or Mecha or Transformable Anthromorphic Bots can all essential become Armored Person and interact with the world as biped humanoid.

That's why I am unsure how my concept of "Tank as PC" will play out with actual players.   Ken St. Andre wrote Starfaring in the mid-70s and that was all about your PC being a starship and its crew.   Each player would have their own ship and go on adventures.

Obviously, Starfaring wasn't the big hit like T&T.

Quote from: Koltar;286425Your vehicle has really nasty weapons that can blow up just about anything , but it alsoi has a decent scientific lab built inside of it and rations that last a really long time.

The Landmaster and the Ark are both good examples.   Certainly, the "spellcasting" abilities will be focussed on lots of non-combat applications.

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;286672The stereotypical D&D fighter dreams of the day he can eat, sleep, and take a dump in his armor without negative repercussions. No further incentives are needed.

I think you are correct.   I was pitching this to some friends and they wanted to have the tanks have some kind of sleep/rest/downtime cycle because being all-armor, all-guns, all-the-time was a big draw.

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;286672What the player should imagine is the sensations of being in a tank. Remote drones disembody the player from that experience. You should focus on what it's like to be in a tank and then go from there.

You are absolutely right.  The prime focus must be seeing and experiencing the world from the viewpoint of a living Tank.   Drones will be "magic items" that are cool, but not core systems.

Explaining "Tank Perspective" to both players and TMs will be all important.

TM is Tank Master! :)

Quote from: Malleus Arianorum;286672If you're wrong you waste a nuke firing at it -- it was the only way to be sure.

Sweet!   Tactical Micro-Nukes...the 10 foot pole for the new generation!

Quote from: spellchrome;286707In what ways would you see it overlapping or departing with Battletech / Mechwarrior?  (Vehicle (Mech) construction, missions, etc.)

Some overlap with Battletech / Car Wars / Heavy Gear / Robot Warriors.   Certainly vehicle construction will be an integral part, but there will be no calculators involved.   Creation choices will be about hey, that sounds fun much more than hey, that's good physics.   I am not worried about trying to simulate the What If about futuristic tanks, but the What If about spellcasting tanks in a setting where the tanks are the adventurers.

The biggest departure will be that Tanks will be designed as an RPG that does not require minis or terrain.  

Quote from: spellchrome;2867071) Do each player have something fun to do?  2) Does players have distinct roles to play, should they choose to follow them?

I am a big fan of niche protection in class design.   Also, I am fanatical that each class must have its own distinct role and flavor BUT there will be plenty to customize in a meaningful way.

Quote from: spellchrome;286707Would you see it more as a story driven game or a tactical, get out the maps, game?

Both...but maps and minis will be 100% optional.

Quote from: spellchrome;286707Story based would have player them leave their tanks often, which can be alright.  Alternatively, you have intelligent tanks that can "transform" and assume a humanoid shape so they can do things a vehicle couldn't.

That's where the crack smoking comes in.   My goal is that the PCs are the tank just as much as our brains are trapped in our bodies...so there is no leaving the tank.   Also, I don't want to do the transforming thing to mecha biped because my insane goal is to delve into stories about what a vehicle can do and how the vehicles with their kewl powerz solve the drama.

Quote from: Spinachcat;286840You are absolutely right. The prime focus must be seeing and experiencing the world from the viewpoint of a living Tank. Drones will be "magic items" that are cool, but not core systems.

Drones are the Tank version of herding animals into traps.
 

QuoteThat's where the crack smoking comes in. My goal is that the PCs are the tank just as much as our brains are trapped in our bodies...so there is no leaving the tank. Also, I don't want to do the transforming thing to mecha biped because my insane goal is to delve into stories about what a vehicle can do and how the vehicles with their kewl powerz solve the drama.

Honestly, what this reminds me of is Star Wars games where you spend the entire time piloting a starfighter. There's really no reason to get out since anything you can do in the vacuum of space you can do better with 120 MGLS of thrust and quad laser cannons. Anyway... you know how in D&D if things go really badly your soul gets seperated from your body? I think that in your tank game if things go really badly your pilot is seperated from your tank. Instead of becoming a ghost, you become a pedestrian!
 
Pedestrians are the ghosts of Tank world. Ghosts can't interact with physical objects unless or have some sort of ghostly significance, or the object is very small. Pedestrians can't interact with physical objects unless they way a fraction of a ton or have teeny tiny pedestrian sized controls.
 
Ghosts are wierdly mobile (they can walk through walls) yet immobile (they typicaly stuck haunting one location.) Pedestrians are wierdly mobile (they can walk through doors, climb ladders and swim) yet immobile (they typicaly get stuck in areas they can't ram their way out of.)
 
And most telling of all -- the ultimate aim of every ghost is to get their body back, and the ultimate aim of every pedestrian is to get their tank back. Some ghosts/pedestrians are so desperate they can even posess/comandeer someone else's body/tank!
 
I could see my tank from the outside.
--Tank Commander Fjordcrusher on his near pedestrian experience (NPE).

I have tenatively built up a list of Tank classes and their D&D equivalent:

CORE CLASSES

Battlewagons (Fighters)
Heavy chassis so they load up on armor plating, heaviest weapons and generally go with tracks or rarely legs.  Their main ability is their strong assault both with overruns and weaponry.   Think Heavy Battle Tank in Ogre terms, though at high levels, a Battlewagon could become an Ogre Mark III in its own right.

Corsair (Thief)
Light chassis and always hovercraft with stealth technology and access to ancient code machines that allow them to Cycle Locks, Decipher Alien Languages, Assess Threats and so forth.  Good accuracy with weaponry, but rarely mount more than 2 light weapons or 1 medium weapon.   Think GEV in Ogre terms.   Fast, manueverable, tricky with options that exist in no other tank class.

Heirarch - (Cleric)
Medium chassis tank with ability to load heavy armor and most weaponry, but main ability to channel Uplink codes to enhance and support allied tanks.   They have the ability to Recode undead enemy tanks, causing them to lose fire control and sometimes, set off their self destruct mechanisms.   Most Heirarchs opt for treads, but have the option for legs or wheels.  

Evoker - (Wizard)
Light chassis tank with specialized Rune Caster Mortar that allows the tank to utilize iron shells covered with alien magical runes for a variety of effects, mostly battlefield control.   Evokers may choose wheels, legs or hover capabilities.  Evokers rarely have more than one hold-out weapon and sometimes go unarmed, using the weapon mount space for advanced sensory equipment or booster systems for their Rune Casters.   Think Mobile Missile Launcher in Ogre terms.

HYBRID TANKS

I am working on mixing and matching the 4 core into hybrid tanks that have their own speciality.    There are 6 possible match-ups and I am trying to make sure they balance with the core tanks.

In general, Heirarchs will cast spells out of combat for repair, buffing, info gathering while Evokers will cast spells in combat to harm, confuse or rout enemies and to alter the battlefield.

Hybrids will be able to weld on magic items that pertain to either of their parent tank classes.  AKA, an Impaler (F/T) could mount either Battlewagon or Corsair magic items.

One of the hybrids, the Voodoo tank, is a Cleric/Mage so you get to tool around in decent armor and launch spells all the damn time.   Of course, your spells only go to 3rd Rank by 10th level whereas a full Heirarch or Evoker would have more spells of their type and go to 5th rank at 10th level.

I like the four classes! :D
 
The different treads for battlewagon and corsair is golden -- an iconic way to see at a glance who is who and good rationalization for why those two classes have different powers. I'd like to see that concept, that tread form follows function, emphasised more in the other tanks.
 
Like, if the Evoker tank is as fragile as the wizard, perhaps Evoker treads could be something fragile like a mass of spindly spider legs? Something made of wierd materials to augment casting at the expense of durability.
 
And perhaps the Hierophant is a walking tank, elevated so that it can get line of sight but built on combat legs so it can still do overruns? Since it has the uplink ability, it could benefit from extra height to get better broadcasting range.

I like the Evoker on spider legs!   I am hoping to have default motion choices for each class, but also some option to choose an alternate so people can't be 100% accurate just looking at the tanks.   Treads = Battlewagon should be a mostly correct assumption, but it could also be a heavy chassis Heirarch or one of the hybrids.

Currently, we have three chassis:

Heavy Chassis - allows the tank to carry more armor, heavier weapons and overrun bigger foes, but limits the motion to treads and maybe walkers with slower speeds due to the weight.

Medium Chassis - is standard default and can use treads, wheels or walkers.  

Light Chassis - although the weakest, the light chassis can use hover engines and get more speed out of walkers or wheels.   It is more manueverable and can traverse areas considered too unstable for a heavier tank.

Instead of Tanks I've been doing a starship version of this type of game for the past 15 years.  (It evolved from a tank game predecessor.)

Battlestar Excalibur

Shield = 10
Hull = 7, Hull Points = 21
Engine = 8, Maneuver = 3, Xtra = 4
Armament = 13.3, Weapon Points = 40
Armor = 7, Armor Points = 14

Weapons
Ultra Cannon, Pwr = 8, Arc = Fwd
MR Rack, Pwr = 7, Arc = RS
MR Rack, Pwr = 7, Arc = Ls
Laser, Pwr = 3 SP, Arc = RS
Laser, Pwr = 3 SP, Arc = RS
Laser, Pwr = 3 SP, Arc = LS
Laser, Pwr = 3 SP, Arc = LS

Options
Sensors = 2
Targeting Computer + 1
Cloak = 2
Tractor Beam = 3
Damage Control = 2
Vital Area Targeting Computer

Captain, Rank = Admiral, Skill = 6

Archeologists, Treasure Hunters, and Adventurers are now landing on a hostile world all trying to search for alien artifacts.  You can't land a ship there, but you can beam down to a preset beaming station. (SOmeone managed to get it placed). (There might be a safe base or two out there).

The environment is so hostile, that only a tank like exploration vehicle can survive. And that is before things try to eat you and your tank.

Exploration vehicles now are armed to deal with the hostile robots and alien creatures, as welll as claim jumping tankings.

The aliens were huge by our scale, so your tank with its crew of 4 or so is "people sized".  

The idea is still odd, but here are some ways to explain some of it.

Quote from: Gabriel2;293310Instead of Tanks I've been doing a starship version of this type of game for the past 15 years.  (It evolved from a tank game predecessor.)

Have you played Ken St. Andre's Starfaring?  He published it after T&T, but it never caught on.  Definitely a Star Trek homage.  

How have your players adapted to the idea of playing a starship instead of just one of the crew?

Quote from: MoonHunter;293437The idea is still odd, but here are some ways to explain some of it.

We are on the same page.  However, my twist is that your Treasure Hunter had his brain downloaded into the tank and clones of yourself are your crew, but the clones are imperfect and mostly are ineffecient outside of their core function.

Quote from: Spinachcat;293515Have you played Ken St. Andre's Starfaring?  He published it after T&T, but it never caught on.  Definitely a Star Trek homage.  

I've seen mention of the game, but that's about it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;293515How have your players adapted to the idea of playing a starship instead of just one of the crew?

Technically, the players play a person playing a game.  The premise of it is that it's an online game where players control a starship in a vast universe.  Think EVE Online, except we were doing this with pen and paper back in the early 90s.

Like Dream Park, there are two levels to the game.  There's the actual game where the starship cruises around, explores the virtual universe and engages in various activities with other ships.  A big chunk of the fun was improving your ship.

The other part of the game is the pure roleplaying of pretending to be this character completely absorbed in this game of starship battles and galactic alliances.

We also blue-book campaigns.  The idea is that there were various BBSes (now messageboards) dedicated to this game and the participants get together and post about stuff as well as read for intel.  We record all this in a notebook, and great feuds, alliances, and double-crosses are told therein.

Looking at it now, it seems rather quaint and a not so subtle commentary on MMORPGs.  However, we had all this going before Ultima Online was even being developed.  It's funny how prophetic a lot of stuff in the little game was.

This sounds pretty damn cool!  I like tanks much more than people shaped battle platforms.

H2H combat...a staple of RPGs...what to do?

Close combat is the main fighting for most D&D battles.   Modern warfare is ranged, but even futuristic games like 40k and Mutant Chronicles romance the H2H combat aspect because players enjoy it.

I was watching Total Recall last night (special edition with a great interview with Paul Verhoeven) and there was a cool scene with a mining tractor with multiple chewing grinders and nasty corkscrew devices.    I've always been a fan of chainsaws and chop meat so somehow I have to make lots of cool close combat options work for tanks too.

Certainly, the preferred range should be medium to long, but mixing it up in the close combat crunch is too much fun to ignore.

Do you know how yogurt is made?   You use fresh milk and a bit of culture from another yogurt.   Thus, a single strain of yogurt bacteria could replicate itself over many batches, definitely over years, maybe over centuries.   Also, the presence of the culture is the key that changes milk into yogurt.

So WTF does this have to do with Spellcasting Tanks?

It's how magic items work!!!

For melee I picture spikes/blades for crippling movement, dense front ends for ramming.  Maybe some close range defenses like flame throwers/oil sprayers which temporarily blind other drivers or hinder their ability to fight effectively.

Quote from: Spinachcat;298593Do you know how yogurt is made?   You use fresh milk and a bit of culture from another yogurt.   Thus, a single strain of yogurt bacteria could replicate itself over many batches, definitely over years, maybe over centuries.   Also, the presence of the culture is the key that changes milk into yogurt.

So WTF does this have to do with Spellcasting Tanks?

It's how magic items work!!!

Neat!  Are you going to go somewhat "old school" and assume that caster tanks have thinner armor plating?  Sorry if this was mentioned already. :D

Quote from: Idinsinuation;298673Neat!  Are you going to go somewhat "old school" and assume hat caster tanks have thinner armor plating?  Sorry if this was mentioned already. :D

Each class will have a chassis type and the power of your chassis will determine your locomotion and how much armor you can carry.   The Heirophant tank (cleric) has a medium chassis and casts spells with good armor plating.  The Evoker tank (mage) has a light chassis and casts spells, but uses faster / weaker locomotion and barely any armor.

Rune Tank will be very old school in most approaches.

Quote from: Spinachcat;298593Do you know how yogurt is made?   You use fresh milk and a bit of culture from another yogurt.   Thus, a single strain of yogurt bacteria could replicate itself over many batches, definitely over years, maybe over centuries.   Also, the presence of the culture is the key that changes milk into yogurt.

So WTF does this have to do with Spellcasting Tanks?

It's how magic items work!!!

The magic items are powered by self-replicating information-embodying matter?

Is this more like bio-yeast or more like chrome-plated-nano-gears?

Sounds cool to me. I don't know how much long term viability it might have, though.

RPGPundit

Quote from: riprock;298719The magic items are powered by self-replicating information-embodying matter?

Is this more like bio-yeast or more like chrome-plated-nano-gears?

Currently, I am envisioning the recovery of ancient widgets which can be attached to a particular tank system (the armor, the main gun, the threads, etc) and the "self-replicating information-embodying nano gears" would warp and transform that system into something greater, but maybe with a more specific bonus.  AKA, an iron cannon may become a Geode Flame Hurler that instead of shells, draws power from the earth (becoming more powerful the deeper it is) and fires great gouts of fire (but capable of indirect targeting like a mortar).

To push the process along, I am doing two playtests of Rune Tank at the Gateway Convention over Labor Day Weekend.  I have no freaking clue if this game / setting is viable and there's no better way to find out than throwing it in front of players!

The big problem I see is that immersion aspect.   We can immerse outselves in other humanoid minds - elves are easy, but seeing yourself as a VR construct whose physical shell is a 20-ton tank?  Hmm...from day one, I know this game at best would be a curiosity, but for it even to become that, it will need way for the player to get invested in their tank.  

The playtest mission will be put in the final product.  The PCs have to destroy a caravan before it reaches a city.   To locate the caravan, they will have to cut through a mountain range with dungeons so we get to do some exploring on the way to the goal.  

Gonna give them 3rd level tanks to see what those are like.  I am still putzing about to see how I feel about the power level.   Tanks at any level have to be built tough so even a 1st level tank has to be able to impress.   I may go the Mazes & Monsters route and only have 6 levels so you start meaty and become really meaty as you level up.

So it's been 3 years since I farted around with Rune Tank. I had run 4 sessions of playtests at different cons and I was not happy, even though the players found it a neato idea.

I was at PolyCon this weekend (awesome con on the Central Coast of California), and several gamers wondered why I hadn't finished it because they wanted to run some RT for their home groups.

I asked them what they remembered about the game that they liked, what they wanted the game to do, what would be cool, etc. I took some notes and I have been letting the ideas percolate in my brain.

The big issue was this: they loved having a tank, they loved the tank being the focus of the game, but they wanted to be able to get out of the tank. They liked the idea of squishy crew of a heroic tank.

In every playtest, the feedback was the same - they are RPGers and wanted abstract narrated combat instead of a boardgame and loved how I made that front and center. They enjoyed fighting godzillas, not orcs and the weirdness of the world with lots of hologram and virtual places was fun.

I will be posting some new ideas this week I hope if my brain allows.

If you're going to create a tank-based RPG, you should, nay must call it Kelly's Heroes.

What about making the Tanks, have downloadable "Robot" people that mimic them on a human scale, the class concept is kept, they can get out and go do things.

Or you could handle it like mecha--the human side is all about maintaining the mecha, drama between the character/allies/enemies/whatever, and the Tank is visual spice for the action.

Why does this give me a Shadowrun vibe? Fun idea though about the tanks.

Quote from: Marleycat;554360Why does this give me a Shadowrun vibe? Fun idea though about the tanks.

Troll Adepts=Magic Tanks?

Quote from: Silverlion;554356What about making the Tanks, have downloadable "Robot" people that mimic them on a human scale, the class concept is kept, they can get out and go do things.

The crew issue is something I am definitely considering. I am thinking Robots or Androids so the tank does not have multiple personas.

I am also playing around with the idea of Tank Commander PCs and their crew being followers ala OD&D.

I tossed around the Mecha-like concept, but I want the game world to be on the tank scale and humans to be puny, squishy in comparison to the predators on the planet. But I do have to find a way to make the human drama work.

Quote from: Marleycat;554360Why does this give me a Shadowrun vibe?

I think any RPG with Magic + Tech = Shadowrun vibe. Its the gold standard that any Magic + Tech will be compared to. Also, Rune Tank has an aspect of being a game all about Riggers jacked into their vehicles.

Quote from: Spinachcat;555312The crew issue is something I am definitely considering. I am thinking Robots or Androids so the tank does not have multiple personas.

I am also playing around with the idea of Tank Commander PCs and their crew being followers ala OD&D.

I tossed around the Mecha-like concept, but I want the game world to be on the tank scale and humans to be puny, squishy in comparison to the predators on the planet. But I do have to find a way to make the human drama work.



I think any RPG with Magic + Tech = Shadowrun vibe. Its the gold standard that any Magic + Tech will be compared to. Also, Rune Tank has an aspect of being a game all about Riggers jacked into their vehicles.

Totally, good to see I'm not offbase then.