OK, this is going to be rant of sorts, although I'm kind of at a loss here.  I'm playing a 1st level Jedi in a Star Wars: Saga Edition PbP game.  There is (err, or was) another Jedi character.  We get in a fight in a warehouse with some Stormtroopers.  The other Jedi uses the Move Object force power on two Stormtroopers that were standing near each other and rolled really high on her Use the Force skill check, and did 8d6 to both of the stormtroopers.  

This other Jedi player stacked feats and stats to 'trick out' the Move Object Force power.  The GM is dismayed that this Jedi can do so much damage to 1st level opponents, and starts looking for ways to limit Force power use in the game.  I suggested bumping all the Force power DCs by +5.  He agreed and all the DCs for all Force powers are bumped up by +5.

However, he also wants to make all Jedi's roll twice when they use the Use the Force skill and take the lower roll.  The GM is bent out of shape because my Jedi has a Use the Force skill of +7 and the Soldier in the group only has an attack roll of +5 with his blaster.

I don't see how my Jedi's +7 is so overwhelming to the game.  My Jedi has a +2 CHA modifier and is trained (+5) in that skill.  I don't see that as being overpowered, or game destroying.  I pointed out that my Jedi's attack roll with his lightsaber is only +2, or, if he ever used one, his attack roll with a blaster is still only at +2.

I explained to the GM that I am cool with the +5 DC bumps across the board, but I can't wrap my mind around the two skill rolls and taking the lowest roll.  I explained that I would probably bow out of the game if he instituted both solutions (+5 DC bumps and 2 skills rolls, taking the lowest).

The GM's compromise is to maintain the DC bumps and to make all Force power roll vs. the opponents Reflex defense instead of whatever is listed (i.e., either Fortitude or Will defenses).

I'm not sure how I feel about his proposed compromise.  I don't see the need for making all Force power skill checks against Reflex only.

What would you do, deal with it or bow out of the game?

Elbow Drop that shit, Holmes, and stomp out of there with your head held high!

Nobody puts Jedi in a corner!

Nobody.

I don't know if he ever saw starwars, but Luke was an ill trained Jedi who had his powers for about a month before he started using them in combat. Furthermore, his natural talent only went so far as to let him learn at all, judging by how hard the laser ball was for him.

My point is that a starting Jedi is suppose to make light work of normal people. If they aren't doing that, you aren't playing starwars.

Hell, in my opinion, if his first level Soldier has a +5 strike, you can't even be a jedi with less than a 25 AC and the ability to deal 10 damage on average.

Well, the thing is that most Force power target an opponents Reflex Defense anyway.  There are only a few powers that target an opponents Fortitude or Will Defenses so it wouldn't be that much of a big deal as far as the game mechanics go.  It just rubs the wrong way since it doesn't make any sense in the game world to me, and I feel that's a knee-jerk nerf across the board for all Jedi and Jedi powers.

8d6 points of damage done to two no-name mooks situationally close to each other? Big whoop. The GM and you should not have cared. The +5 to DC was the start of retardedness. You deserve the deepened bite in the ass for encouraging it.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;4162748d6 points of damage done to two no-name mooks situationally close to each other? Big whoop. The GM and you should not have cared. The +5 to DC was the start of retardedness. You deserve the deepened bite in the ass for encouraging it.

I personally don't see why it matters when people power game. When one guy gets to powerful in one of mine, and I'm careful to decide when that happens, I just power up other players.

For fuck's sake, the GM arbitrarily picks how strong the enemies are, so the power of players doesn't matter.

Quote from: DeadUematsu;4162748d6 points of damage done to two no-name mooks situationally close to each other? Big whoop. The GM and you should not have cared. The +5 to DC was the start of retardedness. You deserve the deepened bite in the ass for encouraging it.

Yeah, I don't give a shit about the damage.  I don't think that the game is destroyed.  The GM asked us for suggestions on how not to completely nerf Jedi in the game, and I felt the DC bump was reasonable given the GM's need to do something about this travesty.  I guess one man's reasonable is another man's 'retardeness.'

Jedi are weak in SWSE.
At least that's what i got from my players' feedback.

Quote from: Cranewings;416286I personally don't see why it matters when people power game. When one guy gets to powerful in one of mine, and I'm careful to decide when that happens, I just power up other players.

For fuck's sake, the GM arbitrarily picks how strong the enemies are, so the power of players doesn't matter.

Yep.

Ultimately all issues like this rest on the "GM", to create scenarios that are a proper challenge to the players "level" and keeping an eye on emulation of the genre is paramount so...

GM FAIL.
A hamhanded attempt to save his precious take on SW style.
Stick around if other aspects of the game are cool. If this sticks in your craw then flee lest the dark side take hold!
May the force be with you young Jedi...

+5 isn't reasonable. +5 fucks over people who weren't powergaming and powergaming isn't bad in the first place.

Quote from: skofflox;416352GM FAIL.
A hamhanded attempt to save his precious take on SW style.
Stick around if other aspects of the game are cool. If this sticks in your craw then flee lest the dark side take hold!
May the force be with you young Jedi...

Yeah... Besides the reactionary nerfing, the GM gave the Jedi that wasted the two Stormtroopers a Darkside Point.  The player left the game because of this fiasco.

Quote from: Drohem;416140The GM is dismayed that this Jedi can do so much damage to 1st level opponents, and starts looking for ways to limit Force power use in the game.

That's where the GM fails. Exactly at this point.

Instead of changing the rules, nerfing the characters the players already created, or just adding to the DCs, the GM should challenge the character. If the Jedi is so talented with his Force powers, sooner or later there will be a witness. Some footage (in the warehouse for instance...). Reporting to Imperial authorities. Maybe a specific warrant will be issued to get this guy dead or alive. Individuals, including maybe some servants of the Sith, will want to find him. They might fail at first, but ultimately will come back with more fire power. And when the PC is matched in power, he'll suddenly find out that he might match Force powers, but still is of MUCH lower levels than these guys. And that's where the player might realize that optimizing a Jedi and using his powers so blatantly might not be such a good idea after all. That, or he will really love the challenge, so... that's win-win, in the end.

Quote from: Cranewings;416286I personally don't see why it matters when people power game. When one guy gets to powerful in one of mine, and I'm careful to decide when that happens, I just power up other players.

For fuck's sake, the GM arbitrarily picks how strong the enemies are, so the power of players doesn't matter.

This too.

Basically, when people start to optimize at my game table, I take it as an invitation to indulge as well, from MY side of the screen. I start looking at Ogres and Giants instead of Goblins for First level characters.

Quote from: Benoist;416464This too.

Basically, when people start to optimize at my game table, I take it as an invitation to indulge as well, from MY side of the screen. I start looking at Ogres and Giants instead of Goblins for First level characters.

I'm of a mixed mind about this - depending on the context, I may interpret optimization as an indication that the PCs want combat to be less dangerous, so I might be disinclined to "toughen up" opposition that is difficult to avoid, or pre-emptively attacking the PCs.

I would leave "native" encounters alone - the tougher PCs can just opt to go FIND tougher fights if they want.