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S&W [0e] 'Swords & Sorcery' house rules

Started by Akrasia, June 11, 2009, 12:47:53 AM

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Akrasia

Here is a draft of an article that I'm writing for Knockspell on how to tweak Swords & Wizardry (the 0e D&D 'retro-clone' system) in order to more closely simulate the classic 'pulp' 'swords and sorcery' genre (as represented by the stories of R. E. Howard, F. Leiber, and others).  I'm going to submit the article (hopefully) this weekend, so any comments, suggestions, or criticisms over the next two days would be much appreciated.  

Thanks! :)
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Akrasia

Character Races

Normally, only human characters should be permitted in a classic style 'swords and sorcery' campaign, although various human sub-races or 'cultures' may be available.  Intelligent non-human creatures should be quite rare.  Most humans will react to such creatures with fear, even though not all may be hostile or 'evil.'  For the most part, though, the motivations and values of intelligent non-human creatures will be quite alien to the majority of humans.

Of course, if a group would like to include some or all of the standard fantasy races in their game – dwarves, elves, and so forth – there is no reason why they cannot do so.  These optional rules easily can be used in a 'standard' fantasy setting if players dislike the traditional cleric and/or magic-user classes, and would like to make magic more dangerous or rare.  However, a setting in which non-human player characters are possible and not uncommon would differ from classic swords and sorcery settings.

Character Classes

There are three permissible classes: Fighter, Thief, and Magician.  Groups may use one of the 'standard' versions of the thief class found in various versions of the most famous fantasy role-playing game, or come up with a new version of the class.  A number of different versions of the thief class were published in the second issue of Knockspell – including one by yours truly.  Alternatively, the Game Master may choose to allow only Fighters and Magicians (allowing members of both classes to attempt 'thief-like' actions if they so choose).

The magician is a new class, detailed below, that replaces both the standard cleric and magic-user classes.

Wisdom and Sanity

Witnessing unspeakable supernatural horrors – always a professional risk for any protagonist in a 'swords and sorcery' adventure – can drive a mortal man or woman mad.  Deliberately delving into ancient eldritch secrets for the purposes of unleashing unnatural forces or contacting demonic intelligences radically increases this risk.  Insane sorcerers and men whose minds have been broken by ancient evils are standard staples in 'swords and sorcery' tales.

In order to simulate this aspect of the 'swords and sorcery' genre, these rules treat a character's Wisdom score as a measurement of his/her sanity.  A character with a Wisdom score of 18 has a firm grasp of the nature of reality, considerable self-discipline, and remarkable strength of will.  In contrast, a character with a Wisdom score of 3 is barely lucid, easily confuses reality with fantasy, and is on the border of lapsing into madness.  Characters with Wisdom scores of 2 or lower are utterly insane, and must be treated as NPCs.  (If this Wisdom loss is temporary, as explained below, the character is under the control of the GM until he/she regains his/her sanity.)

If a character witnesses an unspeakable horror, the GM may require the player to make a saving throw.  The saving throw should be modified by the severity of the horror in question.  If the character fails his or her saving throw, he or she loses points of temporary Wisdom.  The exact amount should be determined by rolling 1d6.  There is also a chance that this loss is permanent (this should be determined by the GM, but in my view 10 percent is a good baseline, to be modified as appropriate).  If the loss in Wisdom is temporary, points may be regained at a rate of one point per day of complete rest.  The spell 'Restoration' (which is treated as a 6th level spell of 'White Magic' in this system) will restore instantly temporarily lost Wisdom points, but will not restore any permanently lost Wisdom points.

Characters may also lose Wisdom by casting spells that are characterized as 'Black Magic' in nature.  This is explained below.

Hit Points and Constitution

Because of their heroic nature, first-level characters start with the maximum number of hit points possible for their class, plus five additional hit points.  Thus, before applying any constitution modifiers, first-level fighters start with 13 hit points, first-level thieves start with 12 hit points, and first-level magicians (presented below) start with 11 hit points.  After first level hit points are rolled normally (although Game Masters may allow players to re-roll any '1').

Hit points represent only 'superficial' damage (i.e., exhaustion, light bruises, minor scrapes, and so forth.).  Because of this, hit points may be recovered by resting at a rate equal to the character's level per hour (so, for example, a 6th level fighter would recover 6 hit points per hour of rest).

Once a character's hit points have been depleted, any further damage is done to the character's constitution score.  Damage to a character's constitution score represents 'serious' damage.  Every time a character takes damage to his/her constitution, he/she must make a saving throw or fall unconscious.  In addition, a character who has taken damage to his/her constitution suffers a penalty to all actions equal to the amount of damage taken to his/her constitution divided by two, rounded up (so a character who has taken 7 points of damage to his/her constitution is at a -4 penalty to all actions, including attack rolls and saving throws).  

If a character's constitution score is reduced to 0 or lower, that character must make a saving throw (modified by the character's constitution bonus or penalty, if he/she has one).  If the saving throw is failed, that character is dead.  If the saving throw is successful, the character is on the 'verge of death' and will be assumed to be dead by his/her foes.  Any further damage done to a character on the 'verge of death' will automatically kill that character.  Characters can recover one constitution point for every two days of complete rest.

Game Masters should assume that most NPCs and monsters are dead or unconscious when they reach 0 hit points or lower.  Only special NPCs – important allies or antagonists of the player characters – should use the complete rules outlined above.
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Akrasia

The Magician Class

The magic-user and cleric classes are replaced with the magician class.  Magicians may be benevolent witches, reclusive shamans, eccentric sages, enigmatic priests, malevolent necromancers, or megalomaniacal sorcerers – their exact nature depends on their background, goals, spells, and sanity.

There is no longer any division between 'cleric' and 'magic-user' spells.  Instead, spells are categorized as 'white,' 'grey,' or 'black' (as explained below).  Magicians may learn and cast any kind of spell.  Magicians who focus on white magic tend to be called wizards, savants, or thaumaturges.  Magicians who focus on grey magic often are called enchanters, mages, or illusionists.  Magicians who focus on black magic tend to be called sorcerers, warlocks, or necromancers.  Magicians of any focus who are associated with a cult or religious order might be called priests, adepts, or acolytes.

Magicians use the 'magic-user' experience chart, combat chart, spell chart (ignoring spells above level 6), and saving throws.  Like magic-users, they typically eschew armour, although they may wear leather armour without interfering with their spell casting, and generally are not trained in the use of shields.  

Unlike magic-users, magicians may use any weapon, although they receive a -1 to all damage rolls (but always do a minimum of '1' point of damage), except for daggers, darts, and quarterstaffs.  (If using the 'Class-Based Damage' system that I presented in Knockspell #1, magicians use the 'cleric' damage table, and do not suffer any penalty to their damage rolls.)  Since magicians normally need at least one hand free in order to cast their spells, however, they rarely will use two-handed weapons (except for quarterstaffs, which are easily held in one hand when necessary).  

Magicians use a d6 (no modifier) as their hit die.  So a first level magician will have 11 hit points (assuming no constitution modifier).

Spells

There is no division between 'clerical' and 'magic-user' spells – all spells can be learned by magicians in the same way that magic-users do (i.e., by recording them in spellbooks, and 'preparing' them to be cast later).  If a spell has both a 'cleric' and a 'magic-user' version, use the 'magic-user' version.  No spells above level 6 exist (although unique and costly 'rituals' may be created by the Game Master in order to simulate the powers of higher-level spells).  

There is no 'read magic' spell.  Instead, all magicians know the ancient eldritch language in which all magic is written.

Spells are divided into White Magic (spells that promote or maintain life, protect against harm, and generally are 'in tune' with the natural laws and forces of the universe), Grey Magic (spells that typically involve the manipulation and/or alteration of objects and/or minds), and Black Magic (spells that typically are destructive and/or 'contrary to nature,' say, by being necromantic in character or by drawing on forces beyond this universe).  

White Magic

First Level: Cure Light Wounds, Detect Evil, Detect Magic, Light, Protection from Evil, Purify Food and Drink, Read Languages, Shield.

Second Level: Bless, Continual Light, Detect Invisibility, Find Traps, Speak with Animals, Strength.  [Excruciating Cauterization] [Force of Forbidment]

Third Level: Cure Disease, Dispel Magic, Prayer, Protection from Evil (10 ft radius), Protection from Normal Missiles, Remove Curse, Water Breathing.  [Word of Ioun]

Fourth Level: Create Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Neutralize Poison, Plant Growth, Protection from Evil (10 ft radius), Remove Curse, Speak with Plants.  

Fifth Level: Animal Growth, Create Food, Dispel Evil, Insect Plague.  

Sixth Level: Anti-Magic Shell, Control Weather, Conjure Animals, Legend Lore, Restoration.

Grey Magic

First Level: Charm Person, Hold Portal, Sleep

Second Level: ESP, Invisibility, Knock, Levitate, Magic Mouth, Miror Image, Phantasmal Force, Pyrotechnics, Silence (15 ft radius), Snake Charm, Web, Wizard Lock.

Third Level: Clairaudience, Clairvoyance, Darkvision, Fly, Haste, Hold Person, Invisibility (10 ft radius), Rope Trick, Slow, Suggestion.  [Ball of Ice]  [Filigree]  [Omar's Mistake]  [Red Bull]  [Rejectment]  [Strange Waters]

Fourth Level: Charm Monster, Confusion, Dimension Door, Fear, Hallucinatory Terrain, Massmorph, Polymorph Other, Polymorph Self, Sticks to Snakes, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice.  [Hylogenesis]  [Imperfect Suspension]  [Infuse]  [Seven Gates]

Fifth Level: Feeblemind, Hold Monster, Magic Jar, Passwall, Quest, Telekinesis, Teleport, Transmute Rock to Mud, Wall of Iron, Wall of Stone.  [Crystallogenesis]  [Magpie]

Sixth Level: Animate Object, Enchant Item, Geas, Lower water, Move Earth, Part Water, Project Image, Repulsion, Speak with Monsters, Stone to Flesh, Word of Recall.  [Twilight of Thieves]

Black Magic

First Level: Magic Missile.

Second Level: Darkness (15 ft radius), Stinking Cloud.  [Strangulations]  [Tarnu's Collaring Coiffure]

Third Level: Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Monster Summoning I, Speak with Dead.  [Tarantella]

Fourth Level: Ice Storm, Monster Summoning II, Wizard Eye.  [Beast of Chaos]  [Deadly Bliss]

Fifth Level: Animate Dead, Cloudkill, Commune, Conjure Elemental, Contact Other Plane, Finger of Death, Monster Summoning III.  [Deadly Dissolvative]  [Most Horrible Absorption]  [Six Mouths of Horror]  

Sixth Level: Death Spell, Disintegrate, Invisible Stalker, Monster Summoning IV.  [Cohesive Cocoon]

Missing Spells

In addition to all 7th-9th level spells (except for 'Restoration,' which I have made a 6th level spell), I have removed the spells 'raise dead' and 'reincarnation,' as they seemed inappropriate for a 'swords and sorcery' setting.  To ameliorate the consequences of 'permanent death,' the modified rules concerning hit points and damage should make character death less frequent.

The 'Extension' spells (I-III) do not belong to a particular colour (white/grey/black).  Rather, they belong to the same colour as the spell they are used to 'extend.'  So using Extension I to extend the duration of a 'fly' spell means that the magician in question has cast two 'grey magic' spells (and thus would suffer 14 points of exhaustion damage, as explained below).

Spells in square brackets are taken from Matt Finch's 'Eldritch Weirdness: Book One.'

Spell Casting: Exhaustion, Corruption, and Sanity

Magicians can cast 'white' magic just as the core magic-user casts normal magic-user spells.

When magicians cast 'grey' magic they suffer exhaustion damage equal to twice the level of the spell cast (so a magician who casts a third level grey magic spell would suffer six points of damage).  This exhaustion damage becomes real damage once the magician runs out of hit points (i.e., the costs of casting the spell are deducted from his constitution score once his/her hit points equal 0).

When magicians cast 'black' magic they suffer exhaustion damage identical to that caused by 'grey' magic spells (twice the spell level).  In addition, magicians casting 'black' magic must make a saving throw (the magician adds his/her level to the roll, and subtracts twice the spell level to the roll) in order to avoid corruption.  If this saving roll is failed, the magician is corrupted slightly and suffers a loss of one temporary point of Wisdom.  Lost points of Wisdom can be recovered at a rate of one point per complete day of rest and meditation (no other action possible).  The spell 'Restoration' will restore all temporarily lost Wisdom points instantly.

Furthermore, if a magician loses a temporary point of Wisdom there is a chance that this loss will be permanent.  The chance is a percentage probability equal to five times the spell level (thus there would be a 20% likelihood that a magician who cast a fourth-level necromantic spell, and failed his/he saving throw, would lose a point of wisdom permanently).  The spell 'Restoration' will not restore any permanently lost Wisdom points.

A magician whose permanent wisdom score is lowered to 2 becomes insane, and possibly the thrall of an extra-planar demonic force.  He/she henceforth is a non-player character!
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Akrasia

Magic Items

'Permanent' magic items (weapons and armour with permanent bonuses; rings with continual or daily abilities; etc.) should be very rare in a 'swords and sorcery' campaign.  A tenth level fighter might only have one permanent magic item (say, the sword of a legendary hero).  What permanent magic items do exist, though, should be quite unique and flavourful – avoid banal +1 weapons and armour!  Rather, try to give every permanent magic item a special history (the sword 'Frost-breather' was wielded by the great northern hero Magnus Magnusson during the terrible Yeti wars) and at least one unusual ability (the sword 'Frost-breather' allows its wielder to cast 'cone of cold' once per day, and adds +1d4 bonus 'frost' damage on a successful hit).

Instead of using magic items that confer limited bonuses (+1 or +2), Game Masters of 'swords and sorcery' campaigns should make use of superior non-magic items that confer the same bonuses.  For instance, leather armour made from the hides of the Great Blue Oxen of the Eastern Steppes might be especially tough, granting a bonus of 1 to AC.  Swords forged from 'Atlantean' steel might be especially sharp, granting a bonus of 2 to damage.  And so forth.  Expand the range of non-magical but beneficial items to compensate (partially) for the relative dearth of permanent magic items in a 'swords and sorcery' setting.

Magic items with limited charges – such as wands, staffs, and certain rings – may be somewhat less uncommon than permanent magic items.  However, they should still be quite rare and special, and the number of charges of such items typically should be half the number of such items in a standard S&W campaign.  Make the players prize and conserve these items!

Potions, because they can be used only once, need not be significantly more rare in a 'swords and sorcery' campaign than they are in a standard S&W campaign.  Indeed, alchemists plying their mysterious trade are a standard staple of 'swords and sorcery' tales.  Potions should be bulky, though, preventing characters from carrying more than a couple with them.  The Game Master may also want to replace the normally ubiquitous 'potions of healing' with non-magical herbs and salves.  Given the alternative way of understanding hit points outlined above, though, there should be less overall need for magical healing in a 'swords and sorcery' campaign than in a standard S&W campaign.

As for scrolls, because they only can be used once (unless the magician records the spell in his/her spellbook), they can be about as rare as potions in a 'swords and sorcery' campaign.  Unlike potions, though, scrolls typically should not be available for sale, as most magicians will be inclined to hold onto them for the additional power that they provide.  Magician characters can write their own scrolls (copying the spells from their spellbooks) at the cost of 100 gold pieces per spell level (thus writing a scroll of a fourth-level spell would cost 400 gold pieces).  It takes a full day of work to copy a scroll (one has to be very careful when dealing with the mystical powers!)  Since scrolls enable a magician to cast more spells per day than he/she normally could, they are a valuable part of any magician's arcane arsenal!

Gold and Treasure

Most 'swords and sorcery' settings are not overflowing with treasure.  Gold and precious gems are relatively rare.  To reflect this aspect of 'swords and sorcery' settings, it is recommended that much smaller amounts of treasure be distributed to adventurers.  As a rough guide, I recommend cutting treasure amounts to about 20 percent of the value recommended by the standard S&W rules.  Magic items should be reduced even further, as per the discussion above.

Moreover, indulging in dice, cards, ale, wine, and women (or men) – or seeking ancient texts in private libraries or distant shrines, for more ascetic magicians – are de rigueur for the protagonists of 'swords and sorcery' tales.  A full week of carousing or studying will cost a character 100 + (1d4 x 100 gold pieces).  (A character must have at least 200 gold pieces before going on his/her binge/research.)  If the amount exceeds the character's current wealth, the character will have one gold piece left at the end of the week.  However, at the end of the character's week of revelry/study, he/she will gain a bonus of (100 x current level) experience points.  This can be done only once per level.
 
Experience Points

Because of the relative dearth of valuable treasure in most 'swords and sorcery' settings, experience points should not awarded for treasure found (gold pieces, magic items, etc.).  Instead, experience points should be awarded for opponents and obstacles overcome, missions completed, and clever playing (as outlined below).

Experience points are awarded for foes overcome, whether slain, subdued, fooled, dealt with diplomatically, or whatever.  (If characters unnecessarily fight non-player characters or monsters, experience point awards should be reduced or even eliminated.)  Keep in mind that combat should be slightly less common in a 'swords and sorcery' adventure than in a normal S&W adventure.  Crafty heroes in 'swords and sorcery' tales frequently figure out how to achieve their goals without exposing their precious lives to danger!

The amount awarded = 100 x HD + bonuses for special abilities (d4 HD creatures = 50 exp; d6 HD = 80 exp).

Experience points should also be awarded for traps, tricks, and other obstacles overcome.  In general, 50-1000 experience points should be awarded, depending on the difficulty of the obstacle in question (a rough guide is 100 x average character level).

Experience points should also be awarded for missions completed (typically 1000 x Party Average Level).

The above awards are totalled and divided amongst all characters at the end of an adventure.  The Game Master may also provide individual experience awards for clever thinking, good ideas, etc.  Such awards normally should not exceed 100 x character level.
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Akrasia

Sample 'Swords & Sorcery' Characters

Here are some sample characters that I have created using the rules outlined above.  (I also used my system of 'fighting styles' from Knockspell #1, my 'thief' class from Knockspell #2, and my system of 'background professions' from Fight On! #5.)

Nanoc the Savage

Human ('hill person') fighter.
Strength 18 (+1), Intelligence 10, Wisdom 11, Dexterity 15 (+1), Constitution 15 (+1), Charisma 13.
Level 4.  
Hit Points: 33  
Armour Class: 5 [14] (Ring Mail)
Background Profession: Frontiersman
Fighting Styles: berserker, weapon specialization (two-handed swords), unarmed combat (fists do 1d6 regular damage).
Special Items: Two-handed sword named 'Brom's Revenge.'  It was forged from 'sky iron' by Nanoc's father (confers a +2 bonus to hit and damage).

Brief Background:  Nanoc hails from a barbaric northern hill people.  His naturally fair complexion typically is bronzed by prolonged exposure to the elements.  Many foes have fled simply by becoming the focus of Nanoc's steely blue eyes.  Nanoc reveres no god, but sometimes invokes the deity of his people, 'Brom the Uncaring,' when cursing.   His clan was slain by a raiding party of the vile 'Golden Prince' of the North when Nanoc was away on a hunting trip during his sixteenth year.  He will not rest until he gains revenge against the Golden Prince!

The Silver Mouse

Human ('city dweller') thief (from my article in KS2).
Strength 14 (+1), Intelligence 14, Wisdom 6, Dexterity 16 (+1), Constitution 9, Charisma 14.
Level 4.  
Hit Points: 25
Armour Class: 4 [15] (Leather Armour + 'artful dodging' ability)
Background Profession: Scholar
Special Abilities: +3 to all 'thief-related' tasks (stealth, etc.), two-weapon fighting, artful dodging
Special Items: Superior (non-magical) set of lock picks (+1 bonus on a d20/+5% bonus on d%).  A rapier made of Fey steel called 'Mouse Bite' (+1 bonus to hit; +2 damage versus goblinoids and other 'enemies of the Fey').

Brief Background: An orphan, the Silver Mouse was enlisted in an ascetic order of scholars called the 'Grey Savants' as a young child.  He studied and served the Grey Savants for many years, learning much of the history and customs of the lands of men.  At the age of 19, however, the Silver Mouse encountered a beautiful Fey maiden threatened by a ghastly night goblin.  Smitten by the Fey maiden's beauty, the Silver Mouse overcame his normal timidity and assaulted the goblin, driving the vile craven creature away.  In gratitude, the Fey maiden gave the Silver Mouse a rapier from the Realm of Faerie before disappearing from the mortal realms.  Having tasted real adventure for the first time, the Silver Mouse left the Grey Savants to find his fortune ... and perhaps, someday, the mysterious Fey maiden again.

Neveldar the Grey

Human ('city dweller') magician ('mage').
Strength 7 (-1), Intelligence 18, Wisdom 13, Dexterity 10, Constitution 5 (-1), Charisma 12.
Level 4.  
Hit Points: 20
Armour Class: 6 [13] (No Armour, magical bonus from quarterstaff)
Background Profession: Aristocrat
Special Items: Spellbook of Blyth (includes all 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level 'Grey' magic spells).  Quarterstaff of Blyth (magical, grants +3 to hit and damage, and provides a -3 [+3] bonus to armour class when held).

Brief Background: The sickly fourth child of a decadent noble family in the city of Arsilon, Neveldar quickly realized that his forte lay in study and not in physical feats.  For years he studied under his master, the caustic mage Gareth Blyth, in the scholarly town of Bookbridge.  Eventually Gareth died by choking on a chicken bone at dinner.  Rather than reporting this event to the local magistrate, Neveldar quietly collected his master's spellbook and staff before heading out of town in the darkness of night.  He vowed to not return to his family in Arsilon until he had accumulated considerable wealth and fame.  They would eventually rue their cruel taunts from his childhood years!
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Narf the Mouse

...How come your mage has a weapon which is better than the fighter's or thief's?
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

Akrasia

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307591...How come your mage has a weapon which is better than the fighter's or thief's?

Why not?  :)

Sometimes, that's the way things go ... (He did take it from his former mentor, a very powerful magician!)
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Spinachcat

When is the deadline for Issue 3?  

I will give you feedback on the article, but I might need a few days.

Akrasia

Quote from: Spinachcat;307599When is the deadline for Issue 3?  

The 15th (Monday).

Thanks in advance for any feedback that you might have.  :)
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

LordVreeg

Can curative spells heal CON lost?
I will say you hit the nail on the erhad with the 'feel' part of it.
Currently running 1 live groups and two online group in my 30+ year old campaign setting.  
http://celtricia.pbworks.com/
Setting of the Year, 08 Campaign Builders Guild awards.
\'Orbis non sufficit\'

My current Collegium Arcana online game, a test for any ruleset.

Akrasia

Quote from: LordVreeg;307662Can curative spells heal CON lost?

I'm thinking 'yes' (they heal CON first, and then hit points), but I'm worried that that might prompt magicians to stock up on them to much, as well as downplay the potential deadliness of combat.

Quote from: LordVreeg;307662I will say you hit the nail on the erhad with the 'feel' part of it.

Thanks! :D
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Narf the Mouse

Have them heal only half or a third their value in Con?
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

Akrasia

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307709Have them heal only half or a third their value in Con?

Yeah, that's a good idea.  My only concern is that I want to keep the complications to a minimum.  Simply having the heal spells apply to CON first and HP second would be easier overall.  I'll have to think about this ...
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!

Spinachcat

RACES
Stormbringer is S&S and the Melniboneans are certainly inhuman if maybe even non-human.   I suggest discussing how such "alien" races could interact in a S&S game.   Maybe the concept of using the abilities of elves, dwarves, halflings and translating them to human bodied races who have non-human outlooks.  Also, I would discuss Monsters in S&S versus High Fantasy, such as human vs. human combat is far more common than Man vs. Orc.

WIS / SAN
Hmmm....lots of high level characters with low WIS.   Instead of the 10%, might say if you lose 6 SAN at once, you lose 1 permanently.   I don't like the too many rolls progression - Roll Saving Throw, Roll WIS Loss, Roll for Permance is

HP / CON
Not bad, but deeply increases the HP of the PCs.   A 1st level Fighter with 13 CON has 27 HP effectively!   Is this too high?    The wound penalty math feels cumbersome, a flat modifier might work better in actual play.   Also, I am not sure it jives with the feel you are going for.   Is the goal more gritty combat?  If our party's fighter is at -3 to his rolls, I wonder if we just stop everything until he's healed up his 6 CON.   It creates an ugly death spiral.

MAGICIAN
I like the White / Grey / Black magic concept.   However, instead of ignoring spells over 6th level, should they get some bonus spells to make up for the loss of those 7th-9th spells?  

Also, sword weilding mages are common in S&S.   Why not just add Sword to their list of weapons?

SPELLS
Exhaustion is good stuff.   For Black Magic, I might make temp WIS loss automatic equal to the spell level with less exhaustion (x1 instead of x2).

MAGIC ITEMS
I have been considering an article about "Masterworks", all highly expensive non-magical items that do some of the stuff of magical items.   Its definitely good stuff for a S&S campaign.

As for charges, I agree on half and the user should suffer Exhaustion / San loss for using items that cast Grey / Black magic.  

GOLD
I disagree that S&S has less gold.  Maybe less piles of coins, but certainly lots of jewelry and gemstones.  

I do like that Whisky & Whores = XP.  

XP
Why not give XP for gold?   S&S is often driven by greed, so why take away this option?   If anything, I would double the XP for gold and decrease the XP for killing monsters if you want more Thinking and less Slashing.

Quote from: Akrasia;307586Crafty heroes in 'swords and sorcery' tales frequently figure out how to achieve their goals without exposing their precious lives to danger!

If you want to model this, you need to give LESS hit points, not more.   PCs avoid combat when the chance to death is high.   If they have tons of XP, then its chopping time whenever a foe shows up.

Akrasia

Lots of helpful comments, Spinachcat.  Thanks!

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772RACES
Stormbringer is S&S and the Melniboneans are certainly inhuman if maybe even non-human.   I suggest discussing how such "alien" races could interact in a S&S game.   Maybe the concept of using the abilities of elves, dwarves, halflings and translating them to human bodied races who have non-human outlooks.  Also, I would discuss Monsters in S&S versus High Fantasy, such as human vs. human combat is far more common than Man vs. Orc.

I agree that such a discussion would be helpful, but the article is already too long, so I may forgo it, except for the point about making monsters more rare, which I should work in somewhere.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772WIS / SAN
Hmmm....lots of high level characters with low WIS.   Instead of the 10%, might say if you lose 6 SAN at once, you lose 1 permanently.   I don't like the too many rolls progression - Roll Saving Throw, Roll WIS Loss, Roll for Permance is

Incomplete sentence! :)

Anyway, perhaps you’re right about too many rolls.  I’ll have to think about this.  I like the idea of a flat loss to WIS.

I think that I want to keep the random aspect to permanent WIS loss, however.  Otherwise magicians will simply cast ‘up to their limit’ with respect to temporary WIS loss.  

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772HP / CON
Not bad, but deeply increases the HP of the PCs.   A 1st level Fighter with 13 CON has 27 HP effectively!   Is this too high?    

If you want to model this, you need to give LESS hit points, not more.   PCs avoid combat when the chance to death is high…

There are no raise dead or resurrection spells, and magical healing should be rare, so I’m fine with the higher amounts of hit points, especially if they are understand simply as ‘fatigue’ and ‘superficial damage.’

However, your point here does make me think that perhaps I should not allow healing spells to work with respect to lost Constitution points, or at least at a much reduced effectiveness.  That would make most characters want to avoid losing Constitution points at all costs.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772The wound penalty math feels cumbersome, a flat modifier might work better in actual play.

Good point.  I think that I might just have a flat -2 modifier, and a saving throw to avoid unconciousness.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772MAGICIAN
I like the White / Grey / Black magic concept.   However, instead of ignoring spells over 6th level, should they get some bonus spells to make up for the loss of those 7th-9th spells?  

Even without 7th-9th level spells, magicians would still gain spells every level, using the magic-user chart.  Also, the rules make it relatively easy for magicians to make their own scrolls.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772Also, sword weilding mages are common in S&S.   Why not just add Sword to their list of weapons?

They can use ANY weapon!  It’s in the description.  They just have a -1 modifier to damage done (minimum of 1) with any weapon other than dagger, staff, and darts -- unless they use my “Class-based damage” system from KS#1.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772SPELLS
Exhaustion is good stuff.   For Black Magic, I might make temp WIS loss automatic equal to the spell level with less exhaustion (x1 instead of x2).

I like the idea of the automatic WIS loss equal to spell level.  I think that I’ll still keep the same exhaustion level, though.  I want to keep black magic rare and dangerous.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772MAGIC ITEMS
… the user should suffer Exhaustion / San loss for using items that cast Grey / Black magic.  

Good point!

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772I disagree that S&S has less gold…

I guess that we just disagree on this.

Quote from: Spinachcat;307772XP
Why not give XP for gold?   S&S is often driven by greed, so why take away this option?   If anything, I would double the XP for gold and decrease the XP for killing monsters if you want more Thinking and less Slashing.

Lots of S&S tales involve simple survival, as well as other goals (revenge, etc.).  I have in mind many Conan stories, for instance.  Anyway, I think that the alternative experience system rewards Thinking well enough, since characters get experience for overcoming challenges, not simply killing things.  And, in fact, I mention that characters should NOT be rewarded for fighting things unnecessarily.

Even though I don’t agree with all of your points, Spinachcat, I’m grateful for them, and will definitely incorporate some of them into the final article.  Thanks again!  :D
RPG Blog: Akratic Wizardry (covering Cthulhu Mythos RPGs, TSR/OSR D&D, Mythras (RuneQuest 6), Crypts & Things, etc., as well as fantasy fiction, films, and the like).
Contributor to: Crypts & Things (old school \'swords & sorcery\'), Knockspell, and Fight On!