I'd include a enough of the setting to allow some game-play, at least - Enough so that someone can play long enough to get a feel for the game and wether they want to buy the setting book.

Note - I tried downloading StarCluster 2E, but the Drivethru download kept croaking.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363183I'd include a enough of the setting to allow some game-play, at least - Enough so that someone can play long enough to get a feel for the game and wether they want to buy the setting book.

Note - I tried downloading StarCluster 2E, but the Drivethru download kept croaking.

Hi Narf:

There will be no default setting book - of this I am certain. Setting will be generated at the group level other than the very least of frameworks. You can use the setting from SC2E if you want to, but what is included in the SC3E main book will be setting generators and a framework to hold it together. I would bet there will be setting ingredients available, which you can use or not as you choose. They may in fact form the bulk of the 'support' available, as it looks like most everything I put out for 'support' in SC2E will be included in the SC3E book or in IHWSC.

-clash

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363183Note - I tried downloading StarCluster 2E, but the Drivethru download kept croaking.

Just noticed this! Hmmm - that's odd! Have you talked to their service department?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;363205Just noticed this! Hmmm - that's odd! Have you talked to their service department?

-clash

Not at the moment, figured I'd try tomorrow because it might just be a lot of downloaders. But if it's still happening, that might be a good idea.

Civilian Experts are sometimes called in for somethings. Might write those up as possible sidebar PC's.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363236Not at the moment, figured I'd try tomorrow because it might just be a lot of downloaders. But if it's still happening, that might be a good idea.

If you still have trouble, I can email it to you. I just hope other people aren't stuck DLing it.

-clash

Quote from: Silverlion;363238Civilian Experts are sometimes called in for somethings. Might write those up as possible sidebar PC's.

Well, the military game is already out. If you mix and match IHWSC and SC3E, though, you should cover everything.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;363282If you still have trouble, I can email it to you. I just hope other people aren't stuck DLing it.

-clash

It downloaded this time, so no worries.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363338It downloaded this time, so no worries.

Excellent! thanks for letting me know!

-clash

Mini-review of StarCluster 2E:

Ok, the fonts bother me. It's kinda plain and the more military? one isn't very readable.
Pages and pages of nigh-indistinguishable Table of Contents. Also, did you detail every single star in the cluster?
It could use a grammar editor. I'm running into awkward phrasing.
...My willingness to continue with character generation took a sharp plunge when I saw the "Year by Year Employment" list. But, I'm continuing for now.

I roll 7 for Strength, 9 for Coordination and Agility, 5 for Endurance, 108 for IQ, 2 for PSI, 4 for Charisma and G: Poor Aristocratic Family, 100 CR for Rank. I decide he's the ambitious, slightly unpleasant scion of his family, who promptly ship him off to Tech School, in the hopes of improving him.

Tech school merely sharpens and clarifies his mind and, afterwards, finding himself not suitable for further schooling (Due to lack of funds), he takes a job as a Robot Repairman - Not because of any humility, but because he'll learn Cryptographic skills - Being able to hack is tweaking his interest because of the potential power he could have.

Plus, the pay is niiice...And it is here that I realize it's either-or on those year lists. Oops...Time for a retcon..."Skills sharper and honed his ambition"

He takes two years of Robot Repairman, earning himself a tidy sum of 200 CR - And earning a promotion (Roll of 22), his ambition paying off - In his mind. This entices him into further work...
He also increases his Program skill by 1 and his Coordination by 1 - A little vanity showing through.

Another two years as a Robot Repairman, he takes Cybernetics and Crypto. He's also starting to feel something new - Satisfaction in a job well-done. He sends 100 CR back to his family, justifying it in part as making himself look good - But it's something he'd never have done, before.
He also earns another promotion - A roll of 03 on the dice. He's earning 300 CR a year and he's only 20.
He's definitely sticking with this...
(The GM (Me) decides his noble (No pun intended) gesture raises his Charisma by 1)

(Lifepath character generation is kinda fun. At first, I was impatient, but now I want to see where this leads...)

Impusively, he takes Electronics, then Evaluate, leaning away from his earlier hacker dreams. As if in reward, he gains another promotion (26 roll)
By now, his ambition is starting to be replaced by genuine self-respect and he sends another 300 CR back to his family. The GM bumps his Charisma another notch. He now has 800 CR and it is at this point that his comfortable life is upset, just as he's considering wether to continue in his job or go back to school - Either could help both his family and himself...(Adventure begins)

(And I finish by giving him his forgotten Metaskils - Analyze and Repair)

All in all, it looks fun and I'm interested in seeing what play would be like. However, it seems to me that skills should be percentile right off, rather than converting to percentile to roll.

...And the Equipment section kicks that down, to a certain extent. It really needs a central list. So do the schools and employment opportunities, too.

Style: 3 (60%) - Adequate. I'm sorry - It's just not very well organized and the information falls flat. Also, Tables of Contents should not make the eyes glaze over. Try indentation and two columns - Also, you don't need to cover everything, you just need to let the reader know where something will be covered. The images are good, though - Solid. I'd give them a 4. Overall, it all works, but it could definitely be better.
Substance: 4.5 (90%) - There is a *Lot* here. It seems like everything major was covered - And making more wouldn't be hard. I found myself wishing for a generator for professions and schools not covered, though.

Overall, I'd place this on a list for buying and playing if, y'know, I had one of those "Gaming Group" things and we decided to play sci-fi. But, honestly, it may (In this theoretical scenario) get bumped off by better organized-games.

StarCluster 3E, if it is the improvement I expect, would be a product I'd definitely be interested in buying. Just don't throw "the baby out with the bathwater".

QuoteJack Starnel, Aristocratic Robot Repairman

Stats
Strength: 7
Coordination: 10
Agility: 9
Endurance: 5
IQ: 108
PSI: 2
Rank: G (Poor Aristocratic Family)
CR: 50
Charisma: 6

Skills
Analyze
Crypto + 1
Cybernetics + 1
Electronics + 2
Mechanics + 2
Program + 5
Repair + 1

Tech School Year One: Program + 2, CR -50
Tech School Year Two: Electronics + 1
Tech School Year Three: Mechanics + 1
Tech School Year Four: Electronics + 1
Tech School Year Five: Mechanics + 1
Tech School Year Six: Program + 2

Sixteen Years Old:

Robot Repairman Year One: Program + 1, +100 CR
Robot Repairman Year Two: Coordination + 1, +100 CR, Promotion
Robot Repairman Year Three: Cybernetics + 1, +200 CR
Robot Repairman Year Four: Crypto + 1, +200 CR, Promotion, -100 CR sent to family, +1 Charisma
Robot Repairman Year Four: Electronics + 1, +300 CR
Robot Repairman Year Foor: Evaluate + 1, +300 CR, -300 CR sent to family, +1 Charisma

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363352Mini-review of StarCluster 2E:

Ok, the fonts bother me. It's kinda plain and the more military? one isn't very readable.
Pages and pages of nigh-indistinguishable Table of Contents. Also, did you detail every single star in the cluster?

StarCluster was my first game. The layout is awful. I was thinking of the TOC as a kind of front index, but that was wrong thinking. Currently, my TOCs clock in at one to two pages. And, yes, every star had a stat block, and every world on every star. IHW:SC has a generator and a few examples.

QuoteIt could use a grammar editor. I'm running into awkward phrasing.
...My willingness to continue with character generation took a sharp plunge when I saw the "Year by Year Employment" list. But, I'm continuing for now.

I roll 7 for Strength, 9 for Coordination and Agility, 5 for Endurance, 108 for IQ, 2 for PSI, 4 for Charisma and G: Poor Aristocratic Family, 100 CR for Rank. I decide he's the ambitious, slightly unpleasant scion of his family, who promptly ship him off to Tech School, in the hopes of improving him.

A good place for the rascal!

QuoteTech school merely sharpens and clarifies his mind and, afterwards, finding himself not suitable for further schooling (Due to lack of funds), he takes a job as a Robot Repairman - Not because of any humility, but because he'll learn Cryptographic skills - Being able to hack is tweaking his interest because of the potential power he could have.

Hehe!

QuotePlus, the pay is niiice...And it is here that I realize it's either-or on those year lists. Oops...Time for a retcon..."Skills sharper and honed his ambition"

He takes two years of Robot Repairman, earning himself a tidy sum of 200 CR - And earning a promotion (Roll of 22), his ambition paying off - In his mind. This entices him into further work...
He also increases his Program skill by 1 and his Coordination by 1 - A little vanity showing through.

Another two years as a Robot Repairman, he takes Cybernetics and Crypto. He's also starting to feel something new - Satisfaction in a job well-done. He sends 100 CR back to his family, justifying it in part as making himself look good - But it's something he'd never have done, before.
He also earns another promotion - A roll of 03 on the dice. He's earning 300 CR a year and he's only 20.
He's definitely sticking with this...
(The GM (Me) decides his noble (No pun intended) gesture raises his Charisma by 1)

A kind and generous Gm. I've never met one of those...

Quote(Lifepath character generation is kinda fun. At first, I was impatient, but now I want to see where this leads...)

That's what always sucks me in. Where is this life going?

QuoteImpusively, he takes Electronics, then Evaluate, leaning away from his earlier hacker dreams. As if in reward, he gains another promotion (26 roll)
By now, his ambition is starting to be replaced by genuine self-respect and he sends another 300 CR back to his family. The GM bumps his Charisma another notch. He now has 800 CR and it is at this point that his comfortable life is upset, just as he's considering wether to continue in his job or go back to school - Either could help both his family and himself...(Adventure begins)

Creating a system that allows folks to make people like Jack was where I went right. As time went on, I refined it in other games, but that's the core of the game.

Quote(And I finish by giving him his forgotten Metaskils - Analyze and Repair)

Metaskills are a concept that appeared in StarCluster 2E and no-where else. It mostly just confused people, so I never implemented it again.

QuoteAll in all, it looks fun and I'm interested in seeing what play would be like. However, it seems to me that skills should be percentile right off, rather than converting to percentile to roll.

Except that would make it awkward to play with d20 dice pools, or 4d6-4 roll over, which you could also use to run a StarCluster game. StarCluster was conceived of from the beginning as a framework with standardized interfaces to which any subsystem could be bolted. In Harm's Way: StarCluster has all three of these sub-systems as options. SC3E will have three (at least) different ones.

Quote...And the Equipment section kicks that down, to a certain extent. It really needs a central list. So do the schools and employment opportunities, too.

There are a *lot* of professions. I like options, but they are poorly organized.

QuoteStyle: 3 (60%) - Adequate. I'm sorry - It's just not very well organized and the information falls flat. Also, Tables of Contents should not make the eyes glaze over. Try indentation and two columns - Also, you don't need to cover everything, you just need to let the reader know where something will be covered. The images are good, though - Solid. I'd give them a 4. Overall, it all works, but it could definitely be better.
Substance: 4.5 (90%) - There is a *Lot* here. It seems like everything major was covered - And making more wouldn't be hard. I found myself wishing for a generator for professions and schools not covered, though.

That's more than fair. It does discuss how to make a new profession, with an example, but it doesn't go far enough. Later on in the system development I dropped the random roll for skills earned. Much has been simplified, and several things added.

QuoteOverall, I'd place this on a list for buying and playing if, y'know, I had one of those "Gaming Group" things and we decided to play sci-fi. But, honestly, it may (In this theoretical scenario) get bumped off by better organized-games.

StarCluster 3E, if it is the improvement I expect, would be a product I'd definitely be interested in buying. Just don't throw "the baby out with the bathwater".

I don't think I did, but I would think that if I were your typical megalomaniac rich game designer, like Bill or Brad or Brett... wait just a minute! they all begin with "B"! Two could be a coincidence, but three? That has to be a conspiracy!

-clash

For comparison, here's my example character from IHW:SC.

Example Character: Seela Keltay

Jim decides to create the character Seela Keltay. The character concept is that of a VaHu lass, gifted with PSI, who decides to join the Special Forces. She joins the Army and is pushed into PSI School because of her talent. After her first hitch, she goes to Drop Troop School, and then to Special Forces.

Jim chooses to have Seela grow up in an Rural Middle Class lifestyle on Faren, the Vantor homeworld. Faren is a waterworld, so he chooses the Rural, Maritime, and Sport Skill Sets. From these, he picks Swim+3, Dash+2, Gun+2, Weather+2, Beam, and Flying +2. This is to reflect that Seela was an adventurous "tomboy" who had all sorts of hair-raising exploits while she was growing up.

Jim now decides on Seela's attributes, dividing 46 points up between STR, COOR, AGY, END, and CHAR. He chooses STR-9, COOR-9, AGY-9, END-9, and CHAR-10. Further Jim now divides 180 points between INT/IQ, PSI. LUCK, and Family Lifestyle. Having already decided that Seela came from a Rural Middle Class family, he spends 31 points on Lower Middle Class. She's also supposed to be talented at PSI, so he spends 51 points to give her a PSI of 2. He wants her to be very smart, so he spends 97 points to get an INT of 9/IQ of 135. The remaining 1 point gives Seela a Luck of 0. Seela Keltay is now 18 years old and joins the Army.

Since Seela is to be psionically adept, she needs to attend PSI School. While attending the SaVaHuTa Army PSI Training School, Seela acquires Alert+1, Observe+2, Interrogate+3, Sight+2, Sheild+3, Stun+2, Telepathy+1, Proxy+1, TK+1, Locate+1, and Heal+1. She also gains the Edge of Keep Steady 2.

The next three years in her hitch are spent as a PSI specialist, and she picks up Stun, Unarm, and Gun skills. Seela Keltay is now 22 years old. She rolls for promotion, and gets a YES her second year, making her a Private rather than Recruit, and a NO her fourth year.

Seela then goes to Drop Troop Specialist School, the gateway to all other SpecOps training, and gains the following skills: Insert+3, Gun+2, Blade+1, Demolitions+2, Gunnery+2, Course+2, Unarm+1, and Focus+1. She also gains the Edges of Drop Capsule 2, Night 2 and Platoon 2, and +1 to her STR and END attributes.

Seela spends the next three years of her hitch as a Drop Trooper, and gains ranks of Unarm, Gun, and Telepathy. She also gets promoted twice - to Private First Class and to Lance Corporal, and thus an Upper Middle Class Lifestyle. She is now 26 years old.

Jim decides that Seela should move on to Special Forces, and she attends Special Forces Specialist School. There she gains the following skills: Tactics+2, Instruct+3, Linguistics+2, Gunnery+2, Insertion+1, Sneak+2. Snare+2, Gun+3, Strategy+2, Tactics+2, Observe+2, Survival+3, Unarm+2, Cryptography+1, Bow+1, and Beam+2. She also gains the Edges of Ambush 2, Night 2, and Interrogate 2, and +1 to her STR and END.

Seela now spends three more years in the Special Forces and gains the skill ranks of Beam +2 and Sight +1. She also gets promoted once more, to Corporal, in the second year of her third hitch.

Jim thinks about Seela's nature and gives her Hot-Tempered 2, Gregarious 3, and Meticulous 2 for Traits.

Seela Keltay is now 30 years old. Her Constitution is: Full- 400, Hindered- 300, Stunned- 200, and Critical 100. Her Honor and Practicality are 10 and 10, respectively.

Seela Keltay

Attributes:
STR 11, COOR 9, AGY 9, END 11, CHAR 10, IQ 131, INT 9, LUCK 0 PSI 2

Skills:
Gun+9, Beam+5, Unarm+5, Blade+1, Bow+1, Stun+3, Alert+1, Observe+4, Tactics+2, Instruct+3, Linguistics+2, Strategy+2, Course+2, Survival+3, Weather+2, Insert+4, Sneak+2, Swim+3, Dash+2, Flying+2, Demolition+2, Gunnery+4, Snare+2, Track+2, Cryptography+1, Interrogate+3, Sight+2, Shield+3, Telepathy+2, Proxy+1, TK+1, Locate+1, Heal+1, and Focus+1.

Edges:
Platoon 2, Keep Steady 2, Drop Capsule 2, Ambush, Night 4, and Interrogate 2

Traits:
Hot-Tempered 2, Gregarious 3, and Meticulous 2

Jim is now ready to equip Seela with her basic gear and start playing In Harm's Way: StarCluster.

Hmm...A lot more skills, but then, it is a much more focused game. The Edges sound interesting, but aren't really descriptive (Not knowing the system) If they give bonuses to relevant activities, I'd expect them to be proceeded by a '+' sign.

I like the Meta-Skills idea (Insofar as I understand it) - Maybe if you renamed them "Aptitudes" it would help? (Mind if I yoink them?)

I want to play more SC...

Le sigh.

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;363356Hmm...A lot more skills, but then, it is a much more focused game. The Edges sound interesting, but aren't really descriptive (Not knowing the system) If they give bonuses to relevant activities, I'd expect them to be proceeded by a '+' sign.

I like the Meta-Skills idea (Insofar as I understand it) - Maybe if you renamed them "Aptitudes" it would help? (Mind if I yoink them?)

Hi Narf:

Yeah - the PCs in IHWC are very highly trained. Edges are bonuses which apply in certain conditions - night during the dark, split-second for very short reactions, platoon for working with a large group, etc. Traits are bonuses which can be pulled when the PCs personality could actually aid him. Traits are more descriptive than Edges.

As far as meta-skills go, you are welcome to use any and all mechanics.