as the title says, or "what it says on the tin"...
Without Christian upbringing, without morals, without a defined "right and wrong"
IN MY OPINION
Writing adventure modules for any RPG becomes moot.
**********************
The goal of every lifeform becomes either; opportunistic, or predatory.
You do things because "Might makes right" and "take stuff+break toys" = "have money to get laid".
I think we need to not be preachy, nor manipulative.
Reality does plenty to speak for itself.
the laws of reality are absolute, constant, and consistent.
our wishing is not consistent. Our subjective views and delusion only cause PAIN when
they conflict with reality. Reality always wins.

Deception in all of its forms is a tactic to inflict HARM.
***********************

without external law that is enforced by an eternal afterlife,
the ONLY GOAL is pleasure for the self.
Do you care to discuss?

what does all the above have to do games?
how do you define a "Good deed"?
How do you define a "Villain"?
How do you describe "Harm"/"Evil"?
What motivation is there to "CARE" about others?
Is altruism possible?

Can an adventure module work if;
a. The quest giver, can not pay others to do risky "adventure" upfront? nor "Afterward"?
(*what is the guarantee that the players will do as they have been Tasked, once they have cash?)
b. The villain is a clever manipulator who is all three: "SEXY-RICH-POWERFUL", as FUCK!
C. the threats that the players know they would face are beyond their power, equate "Certain death"?

what becomes the "Definition" of heroism?

The GM is not there to railroad the adventure, he's lucky to be blessed with a human thinking brain so he's supposed to provide limitless interactions.
If the players want to join the villain, they have every right to.

I keep seeing "Christian morality" constantly being brought up on this forum. Do y'all have any familiarity with the morality of any other cultures? Confucianism? Dharma?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2022, 09:17:42 AM
I keep seeing "Christian morality" constantly being brought up on this forum. Do y'all have any familiarity with the morality of any other cultures? Confucianism? Dharma?

Sorry, I do not address topics I have no knowledge of and no experience with.

Quote from: Hellfire on May 26, 2022, 12:43:59 AMThe GM is not there to railroad the adventure, he's lucky to be blessed with a human thinking brain so he's supposed to provide limitless interactions. If the players want to join the villain, they have every right to.

If an adventure pits the players against a dragon, what I am getting at is the "WHY" the Dragon has to be stopped.
I believe that the ONLY way to provide motive and a plot for an adventure is if the PLAYERS have a thorough knowledge of the consequences.
without morality...

You are only an animal.
(*having a brain doesn't mean anything if you choose to not be more than an animal. *no offense intended)

And like that he's gone. How sadly predictable.

Quotewithout external law that is enforced by an eternal afterlife,
the ONLY GOAL is pleasure for the self.
Do you care to discuss?

For all generations to come - lack of objective morality does not enforce hedonism. It invalidate hedonism just as any other possible moral system. If there is NO POINT, then there is no point in pleasure as well. And sheer observation shows that even atheists are driven by plethora of contradictory impulses and drives, that cannot be reduced to PLEASURE.

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2022, 09:17:42 AM
I keep seeing "Christian morality" constantly being brought up on this forum. Do y'all have any familiarity with the morality of any other cultures? Confucianism? Dharma?

As the fusion of Christianity (birthed from Judaism) and Greek Philosophy are the basis of western society it tends to dominate discussions on morality in English speaking places.

Quote from: thornad on July 02, 2022, 12:52:26 PM

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on May 26, 2022, 09:17:42 AM
I keep seeing "Christian morality" constantly being brought up on this forum. Do y'all have any familiarity with the morality of any other cultures? Confucianism? Dharma?

As the fusion of Christianity (birthed from Judaism) and Greek Philosophy are the basis of western society it tends to dominate discussions on morality in English speaking places.

Yeah, but I see people talking like Christians have a monopoly on morality and everyone else is a godless heathen sacrificing children to Moloch. It's incredibly strange and offputting.

I have found in the past that players have a moral compass all of their own if you restrain them just enough to motivate them. That might sound odd, but legends, myths, fairy tales, and fantasy stories often do have very strong moral underpinnings, and I found that players actually relate to that instinctively, though on the day when I'd had enough of hack ^ slash for 'evil' characters (most of whom did not understand evil motives and used the category to avoid restraints on their game behaviour), they did moan and whinge - but the result was a more focused group identity. Acting in the name of 'Good' meant monsters really were adversaries, though I did often introduce elements of decision. A few examples....

1 - The group met a strange patron who remained behind a curtain, asking them to obtain an item of rare significance. The players were curious but warned off. Having completed the quest, they learned they had been working for demon that was trapped on the material plane and needed help to go home. The end justifies the means? They seemed to think so even after the shocking expose at the end of the quest.

2 - The group reach an important city and found it had been razed to the ground, a mysterious being ruling the area as a tyrant. They started searching the runs and I told them a group of evil guards were approaching, led by a gaunt, impossibly tall and thin leader. They hid, not sure of what they were dealing with. Then I told them they heard a baby crying, the mother trying desperately to hush the child. The evil leader heard it too and suggested his guards put the sad creature out of its misery. I have never seen players move so decisively as they did then. To heck with caution, the child must be protected! All very instinctive you see.

3 - The players had come across a certain NPC many times, a noble warrior with ambition, a very violent and dark personality. One player in particular had a long standing feud which was great for role playing. But because of severe political changes, they found this NPC, left to die, hopelessly disabled, a requirement of the overall story. The players didn't gloat, not one of them. A mercy killing took place, and the player who did that was genuinely appalled and sorrowful for the fate of their long time enemy, they were almost respectful when the time came.