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[Stormrift] How would you survive in a world with no ferrous metals?

Started by pspahn, June 06, 2009, 03:44:49 PM

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Strangelove

Quote from: pspahn;307907Do all engines have steel/alloy components?  That's mainly what I was wondering.

Here is a brief synopsis of what goes into the major components:

"The intake fan at the front of the engine must be extremely strong so that it doesn't fracture when large birds and other debris are sucked into its blades; it is thus made of a titanium alloy. The intermediate compressor is made from aluminum, while the high pressure section nearer the intense heat of the combustor is made of nickel and titanium alloys better able to withstand extreme temperatures. The combustion chamber is also made of nickel and titanium alloys, and the turbine blades, which must endure the most intense heat of the engine, consist of nickel-titanium-aluminum alloys. Often, both the combustion chamber and the turbine receive special ceramic coatings that better enable them to resist heat. The inner duct of the exhaust system is crafted from titanium, while the outer exhaust duct is made from composites—synthetic fibers held together with resins. Although fiberglass was used for years, it is now being supplanted by Kevlar, which is even lighter and stronger. The thrust reverser consists of titanium alloy."

Titanium, Nickel, Aluminum, Composites, Ceramics all play a role.  There are small parts that are steel but pretty much anything that can be made from steel can be made from another alloy, it is just a matter of cost.  Some alloys you may want to look into are:

Aluminum-Lithium [Al-Li]
Nickel-Titanium [Ni-Ti] (aka Nitinol)
Zinc-Aluminum [Zn-Al] (aka Zamak)
Nickel-Chromium [Ni-Cr] (aka Chromel)
Cobalt-Chromium [Co-Cr] (aka Stellite)

The question for you is rather going to be how fast can alternate materials get put into production?  Can this nanite of yours only attack certain concentrations of iron?  Can it separate like 1% iron out of another 4 part metal alloy?  There are many other alloys that use very small amounts of iron that become available if these little buggers can't get at tiny bits such as this.

If you are curious about carbon fiber check into how Formula 1 teams made transmissions out of the stuff to reduce weight.

Narf the Mouse

I'd imagine the invaders also have some means of counter-acting their own agent.
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

Spike

I suspect this setting is failing the 'but why?' tests.

I'll buy a metal corroding bacterium, stranger things can and do exist and it actually makes a bit more sense than 'Iron just sorta went spoogy on us'.

Particularly a bio-weapon spread by these 'bologs'... have an issue with DailyKos? Drudge? The Pundit's Blog?

Whatever: Aliens did it.

But.... why?

If the goal is to 'take over the earth'...

But why?  

Do they want it for land? For its mineral value (see where that leads?)...

Why stop at 'corroding metal bacterium' and just make 'it kills everybody' bacterium?  

So we can rule out land or mineral resources.

So... why?

Slaves?

Surely it'd be easier to make a bacterium that works on humanity like, say, an opiate. Then they just fly through the cities scooping up stoned victims...

What is the purpose of this voss?  What are the Bologs doing this for?

But WHY?
For you the day you found a minor error in a Post by Spike and forced him to admit it, it was the greatest day of your internet life.  For me it was... Tuesday.

For the curious: Apparently, in person, I sound exactly like the Youtube Character The Nostalgia Critic.   I have no words.

[URL=https:

Narf the Mouse

The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

pspahn

Quote from: Spike;308608I suspect this setting is failing the 'but why?' tests.

I'll buy a metal corroding bacterium, stranger things can and do exist and it actually makes a bit more sense than 'Iron just sorta went spoogy on us'.

Particularly a bio-weapon spread by these 'bologs'... have an issue with DailyKos? Drudge? The Pundit's Blog?

Whatever: Aliens did it.

But.... why?

If the goal is to 'take over the earth'...

But why?  

Do they want it for land? For its mineral value (see where that leads?)...

Why stop at 'corroding metal bacterium' and just make 'it kills everybody' bacterium?  

So we can rule out land or mineral resources.

So... why?

Slaves?

Surely it'd be easier to make a bacterium that works on humanity like, say, an opiate. Then they just fly through the cities scooping up stoned victims...

What is the purpose of this voss?  What are the Bologs doing this for?

But WHY?

Hi Spike,

The blog answers those questions, as far as I can tell.  If not, I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look and let me know (I can tell you haven't looked because the bologs are actually just a bioengineered servitor creature, not the invading race that is referred to repeatedly).  I think most of the answers can be found in the writeup for the race, which was the second post in the blog, here:  

http://petespahn.xanga.com/703566139/stormrift-the-korr/

QuoteWhy stop at 'corroding metal bacterium' and just make 'it kills everybody' bacterium?  
This one is at least easily answered here.  The warrior caste is leading this war and there would not be much of a chance for honor and glory in hand-to-hand battle if you just sprayed bacteria in the air and killed everyone.  

The short version: the aliens have subjugated several other races in the past, but those races were all primitive and had not evolved to the level that 21st century humanity has.  The deadliest weapons they had faced in the past (outside of their own civil war) were bow and arrows.  Their warrior culture feels that ranged weapons are dishonorable and cowardly.  

If your question is still "but why" because you can still think of easier ways to commit genocide, I can point to countless cultures in the past who have established a way of fighting and stuck with it, only changing after numerous defeats.  Why didn't the British Army immediately become guerilla fighters when faced with Colonial irregulars?  Why didn't the samurai immediately start using guns and cannons since they had access to gunpowder long before the rest of the world?

That's just the culture, and it's the premise for the setting.  Hopefully that and the writeup answered your questions.  If not, again, let me know and I will try to make it clearer.

Thanks!

Pete
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

pspahn

Quote from: Strangelove;307950The question for you is rather going to be how fast can alternate materials get put into production?  Can this nanite of yours only attack certain concentrations of iron?  Can it separate like 1% iron out of another 4 part metal alloy?  There are many other alloys that use very small amounts of iron that become available if these little buggers can't get at tiny bits such as this.
Hey, thanks for this post!  Very helpful indeed, especially the aircraft info.  The situation deteriorated rapidly.  Within about a month or so of the meteor strikes, the effects of the voss was being felt all over the world and governments were stretched thin with humanitarian crises, collapsing infrastructure, etc.  Then, the armed conflict portion of the invasion began, so there was very little time to devote towards revamping manufacturing procedures on a large scale.  The governments spent more time and resources finding ways to combat the effects of the corrosive voss, which they did to a limited degree.  

Alloy substitutions are done now only on a small scale, by units of the Resistance, refugees, etc.  

The voss does affect iron alloys--it's basically going to affect anything that is subject to oxidation/rust including nonferrous metals such as aluminum, but the rate of deterioration will be much much slower.  

Again, thanks!

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;307953I'd imagine the invaders also have some means of counter-acting their own agent.

The invaders have their own alloy, an unknown type of lightweight metal (called Alloy K by the humans) that is impossible to mold with current human technology (it is actually molded by plasma energy).  Resistance cells are making use of the alloy whenever they can, gluing it to tanks, helos, and other combat vehicles.
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

pspahn

Quote from: pspahn;308631I think most of the answers can be found in the writeup for the race,

Oh, I forgot I added a bit more in a later entry:

a couple of snippets that should go in the Korr's Attitudes and Customs section, which hopefully highlights some more of their outlook:

Korr society is based around strict adherence to tradition and laws.  In fact, the recent civil war was fought between Korr old guard conservatives and those who wished to break with many of the ancient traditions.  The Korr believe they are the master race who holds dominion over all other lifeforms and that it is their right and duty to decide the fate of the lesser races.  In their view, it is only pure chance that humanity has evolved enough to pose a serious threat to the Korr.

As well as:

If the Korr have a weakness that humanity can exploit, it is the race’s unyielding nature.  The Korr are a stubborn race who despise change.  In their view, if something works 1000 times, there is no reason it should not work another 1000 times.  This makes them reluctant to adapt to changing situations or admit defeat, even in the face of overwhelming odds.  During the initial stage of the invasion, this ideology almost proved to be their undoing as wave after wave of living war machines broke against the devastating weapons of earth’s defenders.  Only the fact that the Korr’s legion of bioengineered servitors had swelled during the civil war gave them the resources to continue the invasion.
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

Narf the Mouse

...Why can't humanity ever be invaded by adaptable, intelligent and capable enemies?

...Oh, right. Because then they might loose.
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

pspahn

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;308639...Why can't humanity ever be invaded by adaptable, intelligent and capable enemies?

...Oh, right. Because then they might loose.

yes, they might lose, and it usually doesn't make for interesting gameplay, although I would play Titan A.E. if someone wrote it up.  The dretch were intelligent and capable, just not adaptable.  

Stormrift is about playing members of the Resistance, so there has to be some way to resist, otherwise the war would be lost and humanity would be nearly extinct and that would be another type of game entirely--not necessarily a bad thing, just not what this setting is about.
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

Narf the Mouse

Why not make their tech levels roughly equal - Different, but both capable of devastation? Then you don't have to mind-nerf one of them.

But...Er...No need to change your game for my pet peeve. :)
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

pspahn

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;308653But...Er...No need to change your game for my pet peeve. :)

No, man, that's what feedback is all about.  Otherwise, the post would be [Stormrift] Seeking Ego Stroking on a New Setting.  :)

They're both capable of devastation, just different forms of it.  Earth has superior firepower, but it's failing.  The Korr have their relentless living war machines.  In gamer terms, you get to blow a bunch of alien critters to smithereens until you run out of ammo and then you have to fight on and avoid getting chomped.  

I've seen way too many alien invasion books/movies/games where the tech levels were equal or, usually, earth's was inferior.  War of the Worlds, Independence Day, The Day the Earth Stood Still, V, etc.  I wanted to try something different with this, so you still have access to modern weapons and vehicles--for now.  But, as the game progresses it will almost take on a more medieval feel as people have to resort to more archaic weapons like swords, axes, bows, the sort of weapons you can easily maintain.  

That's why I was looking for innovations, like what other people would do, what sort of weapons could be constructed, that sort of thing.  One thing I've already gotten from Strangelove's posts is that there will be a lot more military aircraft flying around than I had initially thought as the aluminum and magnesium alloys will be more difficult for the voss to break down.  In fact, earth's air superiority will likely be a major factor in keeping the hordes at bay, at least until the planes stop flying.
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+

Narf the Mouse

The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

pspahn

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;308673Earth will want to Nuke'em'all as soon as possible.

Already happended.  When things started looking real bad, earth's armies tried strategic nuclear strikes using precision-guided nuclear missiles and artillery, with mixed results.  Some of the missiles failed to launch and some fell short, but many struck their targets and succeeded in slowing down the invaders.  It also clearly demonstrated humanity as a threat that had to be eliminated.  

The big bad tactical nukes are being held in reserve, sort of a last ditch defense that might save the world from aliens by destroying it.  So far no one has decided to press the button, but it's only a matter of time.  One of the subplots that's going to be running is that time is running out to use the tactical nukes as voss corrosion is wearing down the capability to effectively launch them.  Do the PCs help prep the nukes (delivering launch codes, defending silos, etc.) or do they side with generals and leaders who still believe there is still hope for the Resistance?  

--Just to be clear on my earlier post, the alien Korr _do_ have the technology to build more advanced weaponry, their culture just won't allow it at this point.  In fact, in the civil war I mentioned, the outnumbered reformists developed ranged plasma weapons to use against Korr warriors which helped them win military victories, but eventually cost them the support of many of their own people for resorting to such cowardly tactics.  Those are two more underlying PC subplots--the remnants of the reformist faction and the possibility of securing weapons of the enemy.
Small Niche Games
Also check the WWII: Operation WhiteBox Community on Google+


Kyle Aaron

Quote from: pspahn;306806But, if ferrous metals suddenly started breaking down, becoming brittle and eventually rusting away, what sort of effect would that have on the world?

[...] earth is being invaded by aliens from a parallel dimension.
What are the aliens using? Can humans use their equipment?
Quote from: pspahn. The invaders aren't omnipotent, they's just good at making use of what's available--in this case a microorganism that's capable of feeding on metals.
What protects their own stuff? Can humans acquire this vaccine?

This is what it comes down to: either the aliens use a vaccine against this anti-ferrous bacteria, in which case humans can capture the vaccine; or else aliens don't use ferrous metals, in which case humans can capture their equipment and use it.

More than one guerilla movement has got itself going purely by weapons captured from enemies...
Quote from: Narf the Mouse...Why can't humanity ever be invaded by adaptable, intelligent and capable enemies?

...Oh, right. Because then they might loose.
The aliens can be adaptable, intelligent and capable, but so are humans :) Plus, alien victory may seem inevitable, but some people will still fight on, and the victory mightn't be overnight. If everyone surrendered as soon as it was plain they couldn't win, wars on Earth would be much shorter! And some countries who ended up winning would have given up too soon.

Preview looks good, mate.
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