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Stat increases vs. 'feats'?

Started by Bloody Stupid Johnson, September 15, 2013, 08:08:02 PM

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ggroy

#30
October 03, 2013, 07:57:54 PM Last Edit: October 03, 2013, 10:37:25 PM by ggroy
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;696044Makes sense.
For really crap I suppose a -5 or -6 (a la 3E) is OK for the most part

I did some calculations on this awhile ago.

http://rpgmechanics.blogspot.com/2010/09/in-game-probability-in-practice-part-3.html

For a bonus or penalty to be "noticeable" in a game of several dozen d20 attack rolls per session (assuming something resembling "always fighting orcs"), the bonus or penalty would have to be at least a +/- 4 or +/- 5 on the d20 roll.

A +/- 1 or +/- 2 bonus or penalty would require over a hundred d20 rolls to be "noticeable".  (On the other side of the coin, a +/- 1 or +/- 2 bonus or penalty will not be overly disruptive in an "always fighting orcs" game session of several dozen d20 attack rolls).

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#31
October 03, 2013, 08:51:08 PM
Thanks for that..
There is I think likely a difference between 95% mathematically provable and noticeable, though your analysis is interesting.
Psychologically it may be that people 'feel' a difference more than it actually occurs. After some searching I found this from ages back, for instance:

Quote from: Thanlis;373966Six of one, half dozen of the other. I don't think it's that critical -- as AM notes, his rogues get by just fine without 18s in his primary stats. On the other hand, there's a psychological effect insofar as it's easy to say "oh, I missed, it's the fault of my stats!"

I saw this the other day when I was running D&D Encounters. One guy had a warden with I think a 16 in his primary stat, and he was using a weapon with a +2 proficiency bonus, so he was rolling a d20 and adding 5 to hit. A more experienced player was adding something like 7 to hit.

Warden guy was rolling under 10 most of the time, and not surprisingly missing. Experienced player would have missed too... but warden guy definitely noticed the difference in stats and underplayed the role of the dice. Truth is, tactics are at least as important as stats. See AM's post again.

Either way, when I look at the original post I see a group that's trying to level out expectations so that everyone's on the same page. I'm not sure why this is so remarkable; it strikes me as good social dynamics. I guess it's only OK if the group is trying to get on the same page and it's the page you (yes you) want them to be on.

ggroy

#32
October 03, 2013, 10:45:46 PM
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;696476Psychologically it may be that people 'feel' a difference more than it actually occurs.

As in the knowledge of a bonus or penalty acting like a "placebo"?

Bloody Stupid Johnson

#33
October 03, 2013, 11:01:43 PM
Quote from: ggroy;696506As in the knowledge of a bonus or penalty acting like a "placebo"?
I think that's pretty apt. Some of what's actually randomness may be blamed on the bonus.

Other than that, sometimes a PC will know when a +1 has made a difference (if they know the DC)
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