Dark heresy began 'proper' last night. Here are my observations and some actual play notes. Essentially the plot revolves around a raid on a tavern by the two acolytes (raid is probably the wrong word to use), who discover some cultists, evidence of chaos, which will lead them to uncover a scheme to summon evil at an opera performance in the posh part of town. The setting was 'an hive on Baraspine (pick your spelling, FFG'. The two characters are fresh faced acolytes: one an assassin the other a psyker.

It has been somewhat difficult preparing this adventure, which was actually frustrating. I put this down to the portioning out of starting skills, that the game has a great deal of skills. There are loads of various lores/forbidden lores/common lores etc, some of which are a bit redundant or vague – for instance what exactly does Forbidden Lore Cults tell you? Cults can be anything surely? Starting characters also have very little training in skills, only one or two, so their chances of success are so minimal. They were reasonably competent in combat, but beyond that not much else, and so I'm a little concerned their skill sets are too narrow. This is something that is perhaps less of an issue with more players and thus, perhaps, a broader mix of characters. However I don't like dictating choices to players unless it's explicitly part of the campaign setting. This is also a learning curve, and the players are completely new to the 40k universe as well.

So, it's dawn in a region called Cankertown where and before the sun comes up the two, complete with glow globes (the real starts of the show) were contemplating their orders: raid the tavern. It seemed abandoned and with no visible signs of life; no apparent light sources.

Here comes the first hurdle, which fortunately didn't become an issue: the two discussed their approach. At first they were going to wait until the place was open, though they quickly realised that wasn't likely to happen as it was boarded up. Then they thought maybe we could ask the neighbours! That doesn't seem very grim dark! In the end they just broke in via a fire escape (if they have such things in the Imperium, I know not) to the second floor which has rooms that can be rented.

The tavern was intended to be sort of empty: I had a sleeping cultist in one of the rooms. But boarding up the doors was probably not a good idea as the slightest complication can become a huge detour in the minds of players. The real action is in the cellar, I merely wanted to set a scene.

In many ways this encounter probably should have been shorter. It wasn't that we were bored it was that it probably seemed more interesting than it was and probably could have been simplified: the sleeping cultist was no threat. But also, and here's where the skill set starts to become an issue, they wanted to question him. They had found a heretic – apparently – and they wanted to know what was going on. Unfortunately neither of them has any decent social skills or even training in something like Intimidate (an attempt failed). Also I'm not entirely sure what a cultist in that situation is supposed to say "damn you caught me, me and the boys are worshippers of Slaanesh, curses!" I felt it was a bit of a stalemate which was unfortunate. I also think the players assumed that being able to interrogate/question people was something they could do a lot easier. They understand that the characters start off weak, and that's fine per se, but they need to realise they are really just fighters for now and really trying to do anything else, even it seems threatening people into talking, is going to be difficult.

Furthermore the rulebook isn't terribly clear on the finer points of how acolytes go about this business of theirs; especially given these guys are just starting out on their careers as low level acolytes. Can you call up the inquisitor and say 'hey boss we've found something', and if so how would you do it? Do you just go round killing any old cultist (probably), what about calling in the cops/local militia/arbiters? It's very easy to presume real world sensibilities here, but the world of the Imperium is very very different and even I, as the GM, am a little unsure as to the procedures. Inquisitors themselves are a law unto themselves given their authority, but the acolytes aren't inquisitors. I'm not even sure how they can represent their authority in that regard (I gave them a sort of 'letter of authority' they could use in this instance).

After the cultists did say there were others in the cellar (the players assumed they'd be within the other two rooms and I mistakenly said there were 2 other cultists when there should have been 3, oh well). There was one clue, some chaos signs on the wall at the top of the stairs leading down into the tavern proper. This gave me a chance to have the psyker use his Forbidden Lore Daemonology skill. Now as low ranking players exposing them to Chaos (the fun stuff) this early on might be a mistake and in some ways it might have been more cool to have them build to it quicker, but hey ho.

I'm not entirely sure Daemonology is the right specialty, but I fudged a lot of skill use and gave out a fair amount of bonuses otherwise it would have gotten a bit silly. The assassins spotted the markings and the psyker was able to recognise, through the Forbidden Lore, they belonged to chaos – but nothing more specific (i.e. markings of Slaanesh). Maybe Warp was the more appropriate specialty, but he doesn't have that. I mention this because I'm concerned that I'm setting wrong precedents for skill use here which would be a bad thing. I think there are a few too many specialties, that's the problem for starting characters. As a voidborn the pysker also has some skills that are far too specialised (i.e. flying spaceships!).

So the pair now know that these are proper heretics and, interestingly, give up all ciompunctions about showing no mercy. Eventually they make their way into the basement. It's a largish cellar with no light save a glowglobe on a makeshift table atop some barrels. Two people are conversing out of earshot over it. The pair ambushes them and proceeds to las pistol them to oblivion fairly easily. Although I forgot to apply the cultists' TB it really wouldn't have made any difference.

They are still eagert to question them – or at least one that was knocked down and winded before being executed. Again I find myself unsure as to what he'd say, but convinced that I need to throw them a bone. Said cultist points to the table upon which lie two cluyes and mutters something about a cathedral before expiring.

The two clues become more of an issue for me than I'd liked. They are an ornate key (a symbolic key to the cathedral the cultist mentioned) and a map of the sewer from an entrance the pair quickly discover at the back end of the cellar. We call it a night as they open the cellar door. The reason the clues are a problem is that they had no proper way to discover them and I didn't want to just tell them what they meant, I wanted them to work for it. That was a mistake. I did tell them that they could see the key was a Ministorum key. The idea was they'd discover which cathedral by simply taking it to any other church and asking an ecclesiarchal representative. Just a bit of colour really. Its function is symbolic and just to say a cathedral is a location involved. The map is more important: it shows the route through the sewer to that cathedral in the underhive (it had sunk due to an earthquake years ago). More importantly it has points on it saying where a couple of mutant camps are located so they could avoid them or sneak past/ambush as they saw fit. I wanted the map to need some measure of deciphering (as opposed to basically saying 'BIG CLUE HERE!') but that was a mistake as they had no sensible skill to decipher. I think that I will just say mea culpa and tell them what it means. My players are forgiving, and they seemed to enjoy what happened. I don't' think there were any other or egregious errors involved (other than them not tracking ammo). The assassin procured two stub auto pistols and a handful of bullets from the cultists. I was fine with that.

Ima keep hammering this point for ya: The amount of involvment and support the Inquisitor provides to the party is up to you, the GM. Its even in the book, so this isn't even generic gamemastering advice.

that especially means that you can, in fact, plan around the particular skill sets and temperments of your players and their characters.

Can't interrogate? No sweat, the Inquisitor is standing by with a pain-inducer and a full team of Interrogators.

Can't figure out the key? No sweat, they have access to an ancient Adept with a full hab-stack of data looms who can tell them the sexual preferences of the guy who fucking made the key, if they really want to know.

The Inquisition is tailor made to allowing the GM to make whatever calls he wants to make the game play the way he wants. The Inquisition totally sends out a thousand scrubs a day to die ignoble deaths far from any assistance, and they totally take random sclubs and groom them to be true inheritors of the Rosette from day one.  Got a bunch of door-kickers? The Inquisition can use them. Got a bunch of weedy guys who think dinner parties with the elite is a good time? Yup, them too.  Want to play bitter political infighting?  Set the game in the Tricorn Palace and go to town!

Now more specific advice on yer game.  (bolded for the tl;dr set)

Sure, there are fire escapes. Why not? And asking the neighbors is traditional investigative work, not particularly breaking any grim-dark. Didn't you see 'Se7en'? They surely talk to neighbors in that movie, and yet its still grim-dark. Even the grim-darkest.  Hell, half the time the neighbors are lying/in on it/secretly guilty of some unrelated crime that only confuses things... if you really gotta go grim-darkest on 'em.

Cultists are notorious for not hiding their cultism once they've been found out. Putting a shotgun to the face works for these early games.  Skills and high skills are useful for later on, when they need to figure out that hte marquis of cthuluville is secretely playing both sides against the middle or what have you.

Also: never forget that low skilled people still succeed at shit by taking their sweet time.  Difficulty matters.  Identifying a key as 'standard ministorum pattern omega x 7b' is a simple task (Ministorum made), a standard task (probably for official ecclisiarchy duties), hard (used to open cathedral doors in official ritual ceremonies, but only on Ophelia) to Impossible (This is the third key ever made for the Chapel of the Endless Tide of Blood on Ophelia, destroyed in the Age of Apostacy by Sebastian Thor, and was only used once by the Heretic Apostle Gunga Grim, after he used it to ritually violate twelve virgins who were sanctified to the Emperor, in a... well, you get the picture).

Scaling the amount of information, and its immedeate utility to the difficultly level rolled may not be official, but its hardly rocket science.

Likewise, if they can't figure stuff out now, later clues that provide more context are a traditional way to provide relevance. Can't roll a success on the key to save your life? Later they find a locked door that the key actually opens. It may not have helped them find the door, but it was still a useful clue.

Finding clues: Honestly? If the players make an effort to search, its best to hand them the things clearly marked 'clue', rather than give them a list of random junk and telling them to figure out which items are clues and which are... junk.  Assume that clues are  kept especially carefully, and therefore easily sorted by amatures. Unrealistic, but if your players really enjoyed solving crimes the hard way, they'd be cops not gamers playing cops.

On forbidden lore skills... I know the DH system of skills is a bit wonky but if its the sort of thing the average imperial wouldn't know (Like: this is an icon to slaanesh) than it falls under forbidden lore.  As a general rule, again, you shouldn't  put in things that require hard ass checks to understand unless your players can reasonably make those checks.  And again: The key is that making the check should also not be a game stopper. If they succeed it should make things easier (assumption: Even a party of keystone cops can eventually unravel any game mystery. Every successful check makes the resolution faster and less painful.   If the players fail every check then at some point the bad guys just get frustrated at the bumbling and launch and all out attack that slaughters everyone (this seems to be how the Haarlock Trilogy is planned out, actually... every adventure has the optional badguy suicide assault for even the dullest party to enjoy).

QuoteOn forbidden lore skills... I know the DH system of skills is a bit wonky but if its the sort of thing the average imperial wouldn't know (Like: this is an icon to slaanesh) than it falls under forbidden lore. As a general rule, again, you shouldn't put in things that require hard ass checks to understand unless your players can reasonably make those checks. And again: The key is that making the check should also not be a game stopper. If they succeed it should make things easier (assumption: Even a party of keystone cops can eventually unravel any game mystery. Every successful check makes the resolution faster and less painful. If the players fail every check then at some point the bad guys just get frustrated at the bumbling and launch and all out attack that slaughters everyone (this seems to be how the Haarlock Trilogy is planned out, actually... every adventure has the optional badguy suicide assault for even the dullest party to enjoy).

I'd say just go with Gumshoe advice here - if finding a clue is vital for the PCs to have a chance to complete the investigation, just give it to them.

Understanding the meaning of the clue, on the other hand - that's where they'll have to use that thing between their ears.

No, not their noses.

Quote from: Rincewind1;504373I'd say just go with Gumshoe advice here - if finding a clue is vital for the PCs to have a chance to complete the investigation, just give it to them.

Understanding the meaning of the clue, on the other hand - that's where they'll have to use that thing between their ears.

No, not their noses.

I did actually give them the clues (map and key). But I also made too many rolls (such as intimidate - the guy probably would have been automatically intimidated having been woken up by a sword wielding stranger and his white haired psyker buddy).

As for understanding, well that's the tricky part. I don't like giveng clues as puzzles for the players. I don't enjoy being the player in that position one iota and it's not how i run games. If they want to decipher a clue then it's a matter of finding other clues to corroborate the truth (which I suppose is a dilute form of the above anyway) and/or using skills, such as with the chaos symbol: the assassin spotted it with his awareness while the psyker deciphered it with his forbidden lore daemonology (but only as a chaos rune, nothing more specific). The symbol's function was basically a marker to say 'cult safehouse'.

Sounds like you have it well in hand then, so why pester us with all your 'I don't know what I"m doing' schtick?  

I'm the fucking Pika of Doom, I don't do vibes.

I created some characters for the cell the two will be part of. Seems a bit weird though; these are all experienced acolytes as opposed to rank 1 noobs! I'm not sure how that will work. Any suggestions as to how to make these more awesome (if that's of course possible) is welcomed

Oracle is the contact Assassin and Psyker have with their master, one of many Adepts whose purpose it is to oversee the operations of their subordinates, gather intelligence and report (and monitor) acolyte activity to Lord Greyfear.
Oracle’s real name is Eliphas Soliloquy. He is a highly secretive, private, if officious, follower of the Inquisition and its procedures. He serves Lord Greyfear to the letter and is notoriously exacting in pursuit of even the merest detail. Oracle has little tolerance for inaccuracy or equivocation; facts must be presented clearly.. In communication he speaks using a vox channel from his base of operations which he rarely leaves (if he is required to travel to a different field of operations, he travels way in advance to procure an equally suitable base with the same attitude). This channel is deliberately tuned to disguise his voice somewhat, even though his tone is rarely animated at the best of times. The location of the base is kept secret from even the acolytes he guides.
Oracle’s greatest strength is his ability to process reports and information and delegate positions of responsibility to agents in his care accordingly. In this he has earned a great deal of autonomy from Lord Greyfear himself. In some cases this leads those answerable to him thinking him obnoxious and authoritarian. To Oracle, such descriptions are irrelevant, but that said he brooks no fecklessness or treachery and is a dutiful servant of the Inquisition.

Kara Loan is a Verispex agent formerly serving with the Arbites on Malfi until her pursuit of the truth put her on the wrong side of the scheming nobility for which the planet is notorious. Kara is a very creative and somewhat driven agent; when confronted with a case she pursues any avenue of inquiry that inspires her to the bitter end, correct or otherwise. When this landed her in trouble with Malfi’s corrupt nobility her only escape was to serve Lord Greyfear whom she had been assisting.
Kara’s lab is located within the complex belonging to Magos Pi-Silas which is also protected by Indica Bliss. Bliss helped Kara escape Malfi. Kara is the only one close to Bliss and the only one, they believe, that knows Indica is a nascent pysker.
Kara is woman in her late thirties with a mousy, and somewhat messy, bob. Her face is lined in particular her eyes. She rarely smiles but becomes quite animate when talking about her work, in particular a current case. She is very protective of Bliss and obviously very fond of her.

Frater Nias Severin is a seedy and somewhat corpulent priest that resents his role in serving the Inquisition. Unfortunately his predilection for Kroot Shaper gland based narcotics and Slatedoll prostitutes led him to the attention of Lord Greyfear who, despite Severin’s weaknesses, saw his use to the cause and offered a perhaps uncharacteristic chance for redemption, in exchange for servitude. Prior to his taking up with Greyfear, Severin lived and worked on Sinophia.
Despite his salubrious, though well kept, appearance (perhaps too well kept given his ostentatious show of material finery), Nias is preternaturally charismatic. He is a skilled orator and is quite well connected within the Ecclesiarchy. Despite his obvious moral failings, which he regards as the just rewards of state (and he carefully notes they harm no one else - or so he fervently believes), he believes in the cause of the Imperium and the Inquisition. It takes some effort to rouse him to action, but once properly motivated he can be relied upon to do his duty. Some fear he knows more about his comrades - and perhaps Greyfear - than they do themselves.

Cinder is the only given name for one of Oracle’s most dangerous agents. Cinder is a former Guardsman and a particularly skilled interrogator of men. He is a man of few words, taciturn and isolated. There is little that can persuade him to a course of action that he would otherwise refuse. However his love of and knowledge of inducing pain are well noted. He is efficient though the Oracle has expressed private concern to his master that Cinder enjoys his duty a little too much.
In truth Cinder has seen much of the ugliness of the Imperium and, worryingly, he likes it. His appearance is somewhat unassuming: he isn’t physically imposing, though he is well proportioned and taller than average. Most of his physical presence comes from a stern and piercing gaze. Many feel that he is reading through their expression and boring into their minds, but Cinder is no psyker. Indeed he finds them unpleasant and unduly ‘complicated’. A secret that few others know is that the only man Cinder couldn’t break was indeed a psyker (though one not powerful enough to overcome Cinder psychically).

Magos Pi-Silas is the Mechanicus’ representative within this particular inquisitorial cell. His task is more to do with the maintenance of, acquisition of (in liaison with the greater machine cult), and examination and study of technology. Pi maintains the Servo Skulls used by Oracle to maintain contact and assist the acolytes in his charge. Pi and Kara often work together on assignments and rarely leave their laboratory. However it has taken a great deal of trust for this to happen and rituals are still fervently observed by Silas to ensure the consecrated territory of the Machine God remains unsullied by an outsider, even one as familiar as Kara. Pi-Silas is an enigmatic figure, part machine, part man, behind the heavy robes and cowl of the Mechanicum.
The Magos has something of a dark past: secretly he was, and technically still is, a member of the heretek cult, the Magisters of the Dread Equation. He accepted his position with the Inquisition in truth to serve as something of a spy, however his experience with Greyfear’s agents: his respect for Oracle’s remarkably rational mind and his errant fondness for the young Kara Loan has diluted his heretical leanings considerably. Logically he knows this to be a weakness of human emotion that he should purge through increased augmentation, but his heart has grown strong in serving the Emperor. Now he also fears he has become too entwined with the Inquisition and that his past could be used against him. He believes, hopes, that the other agents of the Dread Equation do not find him and believe him dead.

Knock-Knock the bounty-hunter was killed in action during the cell’s last mission. Few have ever seen the face behind the armour. His body was never recovered. He has been replaced by the Assassin chosen by Lord Greyfear, on the Oracle’s recommendation. A skilled assassin born without vocal chords, he speaks through tapping code into a peculiar device, his ‘knockbox’ constructed by Pi-Silas(though also equipped with an artificial vox unit he preferred his own unique method even if few understood). The magos believes he is still receiving transmissions from Knock Knock’s codebox somehow. The box took advantage of his unorthodox communication style.Knock Knock also knew the truth about Pi-Silas’ past; he was the only one that did.

Indica Bliss a former criminal, killer, and all 'bad girl', has gone missing, much to Kara’s dismay. The pair were close and only Kara knows that Bliss is still alive (or so she believes) and that, presumably, her reason for leaving was because of her nascent psychic power. Without Bliss Kara feels vulnerable; Bliss stayed with her and the Magos within his facility and served as security (alongside the servitors Pi-Silas controls). Greyfear has decided to induct the Psyker in her place though the lack of clarity and logic behind the decision escapes Oracle, a fact he finds troubling. Though as far as Oracle is concerned Bliss is dead; killed in the line of duty.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;505172I created some characters for the cell the two will be part of. Seems a bit weird though; these are all experienced acolytes as opposed to rank 1 noobs! I'm not sure how that will work. Any suggestions as to how to make these more awesome (if that's of course possible) is welcomed

*snip host of GMPCs*.

Sure, if you really want to slap two low ranked noobs into a bad ass group of npcs you can make it work, just like I did in the quote.

Session one: have the noobs join the team, as planned. Have the team flex their npc muscles, impress upon the noobs how pathetic they are...

... don't overdo it because your players might just leave before we get to the good part...


Then, in the first fight of hte game, have the NPCs all killed, gruesomely, leaving the noobs stranded, alone and with a mission to carry out they barely understand and are poorly equipped or trained to handle.

That is one bad ass setup, actually.  I may just steal it myself.

Quote from: Spike;505979Sure, if you really want to slap two low ranked noobs into a bad ass group of npcs you can make it work, just like I did in the quote.

Session one: have the noobs join the team, as planned. Have the team flex their npc muscles, impress upon the noobs how pathetic they are...

... don't overdo it because your players might just leave before we get to the good part...


Then, in the first fight of hte game, have the NPCs all killed, gruesomely, leaving the noobs stranded, alone and with a mission to carry out they barely understand and are poorly equipped or trained to handle.

That is one bad ass setup, actually.  I may just steal it myself.

I wasn't going to have these npc's as active teammbers to whom the acolytes would follow hanging on their coattails. Not just because it would overshadow the pc's but because I don't like running loads of NPC's at once, especially people that are essentially party members. They are their to do specific tasks: so if someone needs an autopsy, they go and see Kara. If they need to intimidae someone Oracle tells them to speak to Cinder.
The experience thing is an issue, but there's no other rational way of doing it without me having a larger party of players.

Quote from: Spike;505979Then, in the first fight of hte game, have the NPCs all killed, gruesomely, leaving the noobs stranded, alone and with a mission to carry out they barely understand and are poorly equipped or trained to handle.

Its a fun setup.

I did it in a Traveller game where the PCs were essentially flunkies to Imperial Marines in full battle dress with integrated fusion weaponry. At the end of first fight where the PCs got to marvel at the might of battle dress, one IM suddenly goes rogue and blasts the others...leaving the PCs alone with the smoldering corpses.

There was much panic amongst the players.

It's a bit late for that anyway.

Besides if a team of hardened pro's can't save, how can a pair of noobs!

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;506012It's a bit late for that anyway.

Besides if a team of hardened pro's can't save, how can a pair of noobs!

You are terribly sheltered, aren't you?

Seriously. Star Wars is about some untutored farm boy who succeeds where the entire, professionally run, Rebellion fails.... not to mention the thousands of bothan spies.

Quote from: Spike;506013You are terribly sheltered, aren't you?

Seriously. Star Wars is about some untutored farm boy who succeeds where the entire, professionally run, Rebellion fails.... not to mention the thousands of bothan spies.

I think you've posted to the wrong thread!

Not at all. I may not be posting at my usual high standard of clarity and quantity, but I know where I'm at.

You ponder how the starting characters in my scenario could possibly succeed where the well trained and well equipped experts were just slaughtered... particularly without support from 'above'...

I grabbed a very quick, and somewhat lax example of a guy who had absolutely no expertise or experience in fighting a rebellion who managed to accomplish quite a bit where the professional rebels had just been slaughtered (in orbit), their leader captured and the sheer volume of bothan spies who died getting that crucial information into... well... luke's hands.

Yet a simple farmboy and a down and out smuggler with more debt than ability (though, yes, his legend grew quite a bit in the last thirty years, didn't it) and one retired old coot managed to seriously monkey-wrench the bad guy's plans.

So it was a credible point to make. Are there better examples? Dozens. Some even that start, more or less exactly as I just laid out (Aliens comes to mind, all the marines die quickly and its one shell-shocked cargo-loader who has to save the day at the end...), but frankly I'm too assed to go looking for 'em.  Everyone knows Star Wars, thus Star Wars was it for my quick and dirty example.


Your story, should you actually listen to my advice, is a couple of nearly clueless schmucks thrown into the deep end after the 'real' throne agents are wiped out by the enemy. THe Inquisitor isn't looking for them (not to rescue them, anyway. WHen he gets around to finding out what happened to his valuable agents he'll want to ask the eye witnesses...), and the bad-guys don't care about a couple of random meat shields that missed their last ticket out... thus they have the freedom to pick up the scraps and do some damage while everyone's guard is down. By the time the bad guys twig to what's going on ( "you mean a pair of mooks have been tearing us apart?!?") they'll have put pieces together/monkeywrenched plans enough... and earned some necessary XP/scored some loot to even the odds.




Hell. If you need help knowing how the bad guys could wipe the floor with the 'big dawgs' and fail to do the same with the little guys, imagine it was a one time advantage. THe bad guys had laid a careful trap, subverted one of the Agents, struck hard with sniper/assassin types... whatever. Now that they've blown that advantage, they're back to throwing grunts into the guns and hoping for the best and the PC's (the actual important characters... the ones with fate points and shit) are not helpfully standing in the middle of a trap but are busy running around (and probably unpredictably and very much without a clue) making it doubly hard to predict what they are going to do next.   Have the bad guys make a few careless mistakes after the 'wipe out the NPC agents' strike, hitting places where you left clues for the PC's to go but they didn't, and so weren't there...

That's great but I don't want to kill off those characters.

Of course you don't. You designed them, put a bunch of work into them. They are your babies.

I get it.

Your players will probably get it too.

Which only reinforces my point. They have to die. For the good of your game.


Because honestly: NPC 'Fact Check Guy' doesn't need much more than a name and a general description. On the other hand 'Ghost Whistler's personal PC Fact Check Guy' gets a character sheet and generally makes the players feel small in the pants.

Multiplied by six or so.