4th. age setting would be great! Lots of background to draw on etc. Did some 4th age adventuring back in the day and it was neat, we were all fans of the books and used that knowledge in character for many interesting dialogues.

The only issue I take with most systems being used for this setting is in the treatment of magic. Never seems to capture the correct feel for me. One system however does come to mind that seems very appropriate and I know not many like it but 'Fantasy Wargaming' is drawn from actual magic philosophy as practiced by the Europeans during the dark Ages etc.

I know the system is a bit un-wieldy but can be culled for the feel of things if nothing else. The books support this approach as well, remember that Astrological symbols were carved into the top of Orthanc!(as related by Gandalf)

I was working on an adventure based on the Keys of Orthanc being stolen and powerful/mysterious artifacts falling into the hands of....who's to say!?

Quote from: skofflox;406271The only issue I take with most systems being used for this setting is in the treatment of magic. Never seems to capture the correct feel for me. One system however does come to mind that seems very appropriate and I know not many like it but 'Fantasy Wargaming' is drawn from actual magic philosophy as practiced by the Europeans during the dark Ages etc.

I really thought the magic system used in Decipher's Lord of the Rings RPG really nailed the feel of magic in the setting, and was meticulous in sourcing everything with direct quotes from the book. I was pretty impressed.

I used to have the game you mention, but it's been long years since I had it.

I disagree that the Decipher game nailed the magic feel of Middle-earth (I guess that might make me a Tolkienian Nazi in the eyes of some), BUT I have to say, having run the game as my wife's very first role playing game session, it is a really nice take on the whole thing, if you're not looking too closely at the accuracy of its emulation. The main thing, to me, is that it's easy to grasp and run. It's a very smooth game, and that's what made it a winner as far as her introduction to RPGs was concerned.

Quote from: Benoist;406281I disagree that the Decipher game nailed the magic feel of Middle-earth

How so?

EDIT: I ask because it was the first RPG magic system that I felt fit the setting. MERP didn't come close, D&D was just as far off, and stuff like Ars Magica seemed to work from a different paradigm.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;406284How so?

Well, starting with the fact you actually *could* play a spellcaster per se without being an Istari yourself...

Quote from: Benoist;406281BUT I have to say, having run the game as my wife's very first role playing game session, it is a really nice take on the whole thing, if you're not looking too closely at the accuracy of its emulation. The main thing, to me, is that it's easy to grasp and run. It's a very smooth game, and that's what made it a winner as far as her introduction to RPGs was concerned.

I thought from the first time I read the game, and on through when I ran it, that it would be a wonderful epic fantasy RPG divested on its ties to Middle-earth. Y'know, there are a lot of swords & sorcery RPGs, including D&D and all the recent clones of old school D&D, and lots of games that try to be "gritty," but there aren't many games that focus on epic or "high" fantasy.

I don't mean magic-heavy settings, or twee, vaguely Celtic fantasies about characters trying to find themselves, or settings where the characters are all morally ambivalent and act like "real" people, but epics precisely like the Lord of the Rings, where good and evil exist and there are clear-cut heroes, and they exist in a world where all that stuff matters and actually has an impact upon the fabric of the world.

Quote from: Benoist;406287Well, starting with the fact you actually *could* play a spellcaster per se without being an Istari yourself...

There were hints of magic-users who were non-Istari. Queen Beruthiel, for one. The Black Numenoreans seemed to have used evil magic - note the Mouth of Sauron. Plus elves use magic as others use technology. I know what you're saying, but it's not as clear-cut to me that only Istari could be spellcasters. Besides, it makes the game a little more fun.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;406289There were hints of magic-users who were non-Istari. Queen Beruthiel, for one. The Black Numenoreans seemed to have used evil magic - note the Mouth of Sauron. Plus elves use magic as others use technology. I know what you're saying, but it's not as clear-cut to me that only Istari could be spellcasters. Besides, it makes the game a little more fun.

Well that's kind of my point though: I agree with you that the use of magic -mostly sorcery or dark magic- is hinted that for some prominent characters of legend (there's the Witch King too, by the way), but it's either hinted at, JUST hinted at, which might be just legend, or hearsay, or what people don't understand which they dub "magic" just as they would the crafts of the elves, or Aragorn's healing gifts, or they are some sort of supernatural nature inherent to the creatures or characters that exude them, like the way the Nazgul inspire fear to the heart, the way the name of the Dark Lord attracts its attention, and so on, so forth.

My point is, magic in the Lord of the Rings is either legend, part of the fabric of the word, or both. Even the Istari function this way, at least as far as Saruman and his voice, or Radagast with his gifts with animals, go. Only Gandalf seems to be the one confronted with circumstances where his powers have to obviously come forward (edit - another one would be Melian, though her magic is very much part of her nature as well, as it contrasts with Elu Thingol and shapes the very nature of Doriath). But then again, it's part of the very nature of Olorin to play with fire, light, and inspire people to look for hope in the darkest of hours.

What I'm saying is, sure, you can like Decipher's magic system and find it cool for game play. As I said, I really like the game myself. But when you say they "nailed the magic feel", NAILED it, mind you, I have to answer specifically: no, they did not.

Quote from: Benoist;406298What I'm saying is, sure, you can like Decipher's magic system and find it cool for game play. As I said, I really like the game myself. But when you say they "nailed the magic feel", NAILED it, mind you, I have to answer specifically: no, they did not.

OK, then take away non-Istari using it. When I first read the magic system, and when I used it in play, I always had in mind whether or not I could see Gandalf doing any of the things the system makes possible. I couldn't find fault at all - he had used most of the non-evil magic in the books, or if he hadn't, it seemed to have been well-extrapolated. So I thought it nailed it. I'm a stickler when it comes to the Lord of the Rings, so I don't easily come to such conclusions. Take that for what it is, which isn't much, I admit.

Heh, I'll say one thing though: Decipher's magic is at least inspired from what the people of Middle-earth do in the books and the movies. It's not like MERP's system which was shoehorned into Middle-earth (if that) from RoleMaster, and really didn't work that well for it from the very start. What was that supplement that detailed Celebrimbor and the site where the rings were forged during the Second Age? They were statting Annatar as some uber Level 300 Mentalist or something. LOL

Quote from: Benoist;406303What was that supplement that detailed Celebrimbor and the site where the rings were forged during the Second Age? They were statting Annatar as some uber Level 300 Mentalist or something. LOL

You're thinking of Lorien and the Halls of the Elven Smiths.

Quote from: ColonelHardisson;406304You're thinking of Lorien and the Halls of the Elven Smiths.

Yes, this is it. I mean, the background and all, though not "canon" per se... well, it was awesome.
But the MERP stats man... that was awful.

Quote from: Benoist;406305Yes, this is it. I mean, the background and all, though not "canon" per se... well, it was awesome. But the MERP stats man... that was awful.

Yeah, I see what you're saying. The powerful characters were REALLY REALLY powerful, and the characters who were not powerful were, by comparison, nothing.

You know, thinking about Middle-earth a little bit, I think 4E could work well with a First Age game where the PCs are literally inspired (power sources) by the Valar.

Quote from: Benoist;406307You know, thinking about Middle-earth a little bit, I think 4E could work well with a First Age game where the PCs are literally inspired (power sources) by the Valar.

I played in a Dawnforge 4e campaign and it was awesome.   Dawnforge is by Fantasy Flight Games and its JRR's First Age with the serial numbers filed off just as Midnight is FFG's "what if Frodo failed" setting.   Worth a look.

If you want an RPG that feels very JRR FauxTolk, I highly suggest the Fantasia RPG.  I was quite impressed.   http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/12/12068.phtml

If you go to the New Dimension Games website, there are plenty of freebies to check out to see what you think.