This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Red Flags of Bad Game Design

Started by gleichman, March 28, 2013, 03:46:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic
Print
Go Down Pages 1 ... 26 27 28 29 30
User actions

gleichman

#405
April 12, 2013, 03:12:22 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645312Dark Heresy is 1-100, Hero is based around 3d6 (3-18). How is that narrower?

I think you're confusing how a random dice roll is use with how many faces it has on it's dice. Both the above produce results that fit inside a 100% bucket- it's just that the bucket for 3-18 holds 16 possible results while d100 holds 100.

Why is DH narrower? Because HERO can exceed it's range allowing results outside the die result bucket, and DH doesn't allow full use of its.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Ghost Whistler

#406
April 12, 2013, 03:25:12 PM
Quote from: gleichman;645316Why is DH narrower? Because HERO can exceed it's range allowing results outside the die result bucket, and DH doesn't allow full use of its.

I don't see how.

If your stat is too high, just as it can be in DH, then how can you fail? Same problem surely?
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

gleichman

#407
April 12, 2013, 03:32:55 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645324I don't see how.

If your stat is too high, just as it can be in DH, then how can you fail? Same problem surely?

DH has a max skill of something like... 80%, which would take extreme effort to reach by maxing both the Stat and the Skill own's bonuses. Space Marines can take that to 90%. HERO can reach any value over 100%, but that's normally only done with combat.

You don't see how one would use say a skill of 150%? Give it try- what possible ways could you use it? I think if you looked for it the finding would make it clearer than if I tried to explain it.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

TristramEvans

#408
April 12, 2013, 03:45:37 PM Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 03:48:57 PM by TristramEvans
Quote from: Bill;645185What about a dice pool that has reasonably clear probabilities?

d10's,target numbers on a scale of 1 to 10, retaining only the highest single d10. Most people can handle increments of 10 and percentages of 10%.


I suppose there is no compelling reason to use a die pool in the first place, other than to make a game different than another.

Most dice pools have pretty easy to figure out probabilities for anyone who has passed high school math (maybe college math if you went to school in the U.S.). Games like ORE actually list the probabilities in the gamebook.

As for why one would use it as opposed to another system, I can think of three good reasons:

1) instead of addition and subtraction of modifiers, adding or losing a dice is faster and simpler. Dice pools on the whol make any math involved with the game easier.

2) It feels good rolling handfuls of dice. Many players like the tactile experience of a dice pool system

3) It allows one to very effectivelly achieve complicated results without the addition of table, graphs and multiple rolls of dice.

Bill

#409
April 12, 2013, 04:09:43 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;645329Most dice pools have pretty easy to figure out probabilities for anyone who has passed high school math (maybe college math if you went to school in the U.S.). Games like ORE actually list the probabilities in the gamebook.

As for why one would use it as opposed to another system, I can think of three good reasons:

1) instead of addition and subtraction of modifiers, adding or losing a dice is faster and simpler. Dice pools on the whol make any math involved with the game easier.

2) It feels good rolling handfuls of dice. Many players like the tactile experience of a dice pool system

3) It allows one to very effectivelly achieve complicated results without the addition of table, graphs and multiple rolls of dice.

Makes sense. I don't like dice pools that are more than 6 dice though.
50 d10 rolls in exaulted are a bit much.

Ghost Whistler

#410
April 12, 2013, 04:20:59 PM
Quote from: gleichman;645325DH has a max skill of something like... 80%, which would take extreme effort to reach by maxing both the Stat and the Skill own's bonuses. Space Marines can take that to 90%. HERO can reach any value over 100%, but that's normally only done with combat.

You don't see how one would use say a skill of 150%? Give it try- what possible ways could you use it? I think if you looked for it the finding would make it clearer than if I tried to explain it.

You've lost me completely,

3d6 ranges from 3-18 so how is that less restrictive than Dark Heresy?
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

TristramEvans

#411
April 12, 2013, 04:31:45 PM
Quote from: Bill;645336Makes sense. I don't like dice pools that are more than 6 dice though.
50 d10 rolls in exaulted are a bit much.

Yeah, I'd cap it at a handfull at most.

Ghost Whistler

#412
April 12, 2013, 04:33:14 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;645329Most dice pools have pretty easy to figure out probabilities for anyone who has passed high school math (maybe college math if you went to school in the U.S.). Games like ORE actually list the probabilities in the gamebook.

As for why one would use it as opposed to another system, I can think of three good reasons:

1) instead of addition and subtraction of modifiers, adding or losing a dice is faster and simpler. Dice pools on the whol make any math involved with the game easier.

2) It feels good rolling handfuls of dice. Many players like the tactile experience of a dice pool system

3) It allows one to very effectivelly achieve complicated results without the addition of table, graphs and multiple rolls of dice.

I agree, but dice pools often end up quite big.
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

gleichman

#413
April 12, 2013, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645340You've lost me completely,

3d6 ranges from 3-18 so how is that less restrictive than Dark Heresy?

Don't focus on the dice being rolled, it's blinding you. Focus on how they're used and what range of values are allowed.

If that answer doesn't light the lightblub, I don't think I have one that will. I'd likely have to sit you down at the table to show you how it works with physical examples.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Ghost Whistler

#414
April 12, 2013, 04:38:13 PM
Quote from: TristramEvans;645345Yeah, I'd cap it at a handfull at most.

how would you do this? If dice are the measure I presume a success based system (eg, roll 6+ on a d10 = 1 success) that adds dice throuigh effects abilities and powers (or whatever).
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

Ghost Whistler

#415
April 12, 2013, 04:40:00 PM
Quote from: gleichman;645349Don't focus on the dice being rolled, it's blinding you. Focus on how they're used and what range of values are allowed.

If that answer doesn't light the lightblub, I don't think I have one that will. I'd likely have to sit you down at the table to show you how it works with physical examples.

You could just drop the cryptic approach.
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

TristramEvans

#416
April 12, 2013, 04:43:31 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645354how would you do this? If dice are the measure I presume a success based system (eg, roll 6+ on a d10 = 1 success) that adds dice throuigh effects abilities and powers (or whatever).

Really depends on teh system. ORE caps at ten dice, because effectivelly the percentage chances beyond that point are meaningless. Rolling ten dice garuntees a success. Anotehr way to do wthis is to base the size of the dice pool on the comparison of the attribute vs an opposing attribute. So a PC with an attribute of 5 and one with 7, would only roll 1 and 3 dice respectivelly. Relatedly, positive and negative modifer dice may cancel each other out. Its all on whow one scales the game as well. In the case of a dicepool + add system like Tribe 8, rolling 6 dice is enough to achieve superhuman results.

TristramEvans

#417
April 12, 2013, 04:44:14 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645356You could just drop the cryptic approach.

He would have to actually defend his positions rather than saying " other people just dont get it!" then.

gleichman

#418
April 12, 2013, 04:45:15 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645356You could just drop the cryptic approach.

Sorry, but I just can't seem to find the words to explain this to you. Perhaps someone else, or another time.
Whitehall Paraindustries- A blog about RPG Theory and Design

"The purpose of an open mind is to close it, on particular subjects. If you never do — you\'ve simply abdicated the responsibility to think." - William F. Buckley.

Bill

#419
April 12, 2013, 04:53:08 PM
Quote from: Ghost Whistler;645356You could just drop the cryptic approach.

If I am following this correctly, the DH system tries to force all rolls into a limited band on the percentile roll.

Hero is open ended with no hard limit on how high a bonus a roll can get.
Print
Go Up Pages 1 ... 26 27 28 29 30
User actions