I want to use the wuxia virtues (which seem to differ from source to source) as stats. These are not traditional stats, so they need to cover all forms of behaviour before being paired up with more regular characteristics. The best list I have so far is:
Bravery (Hao) - strength of will. You roll this by default, when acting heroically.
Justice (Xia) - striving to achieve correctness in all things. You roll this when seeking to put things right.
Benevolence (Jen) - kindness and charity. You roll this when helping others you don't know.
Loyalty (Zhong) - support to friends. You roll this when you would act against your own self interest.
Propriety (Li) - loyalty to the proper order of things, observance of correct ritual and custom. You roll this when observing rituals and customs and maintaining proper relations.

Weapons of the Gods, which measures virtues as points that can be earned to spend on actions through relevant behaviour, has some differences. They include Ba, the virtue of Force.

The best list online is slightly different again:
1. xia (chivalry)
2. hao (gallantry)
3. li (virtue)
4. yi (righteousness)
5. zhong (loyalty)

I need to find a way to allow characters to use these virtues for the basis of any action, be it sneaking around (which doesn't seem virtuous) to punching a thief in the face to hotwiring a starship.

What about adding Yin/Yang traits, to your virtues--and perhaps a skill/aspect like measurement. Find a way like Qin to make Yin/Yang be better balanced. (Perhaps by making imbalance work for your foes, letting them take the high result to match you..

I considered that, there's lots of mathematical things you can do with the elements of Taoist thought and the like, but in the end it gets too complicated.

Perhaps those virtues could impact traits? Example you assign values to each one and pick a number of traits equal to their value. So you can have Chivalry 5 and 5 Traits at X level (where X is the starting value or another assigned value you determine)

Like D6?

No, I don't think that's what I want.

I'm sure some would say it's 'swiney' to have more ambiguous traits, as opposed to straight measurements of skill/ability. But for me, this idea seems very in keeping with wuxia. It's perhaps more narrativey than some would like, but ultimately it functions exactly the same as a more regular system of traits, like str, dex, int, etc.

On my old blog I wrote a simple wuxia storygame that used the virtues as stats that the player could act on, as well the GM could compel the character to act on, and Szu Tsu's warrior elements ( fast as the wind, silent as a forest, ferocious as fire and immovable as a mountain) as the means by which they tried to act. In play I found the characters became torn between loyalty/benevolence/propriety, and it encouraged feeling of inner conflict. My resolution matrix was the I Ching table which gave weird non-linear results that the players hated, but using the virtues to drive story was mint.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;509752Like D6?

No, I don't think that's what I want.

I'm sure some would say it's 'swiney' to have more ambiguous traits, as opposed to straight measurements of skill/ability. But for me, this idea seems very in keeping with wuxia. It's perhaps more narrativey than some would like, but ultimately it functions exactly the same as a more regular system of traits, like str, dex, int, etc.

What about them being your experience chart? You can get more traditional traits and skills, so long as you act in accordance with those traits, and which one you focus on influences what kinds of traits you can buy?


I know how I'm doing it in my game, for the most part, I'm just trying to brainstorm to help you

Quote from: Silverlion;509914What about them being your experience chart? You can get more traditional traits and skills, so long as you act in accordance with those traits, and which one you focus on influences what kinds of traits you can buy?


I know how I'm doing it in my game, for the most part, I'm just trying to brainstorm to help you

I think this is a way to do it that would have broader appeal (assuming that is your goal GW).

I do like that the wuxia virtues are being incorporated into the mechanics.

GS can you give some examples of existing games that are close to what yiur are going for here. I am hesitant to give much advice without feeling I understand your design goal.

It would have broader appeal, and I appreciate all the suggestions. However, at the cost of broader appeal I think I will playtest the current idea with a mind to keeping it. Ultimately it's just set dressing. The Virtues are functionally no different than regular traits, but they do allow some cool things.
For instance, Justice is the default combat virtue. Let's say someone has Justice at d8 and Bravery at d6. The game also uses a fate point system (destiny points). Here's a rule: if it is thematically more appropriate to use a lower rated virtue, the hero instantly gains a point of destiny.
So, a hero is facing down a group of enemy warriors. He is outnumbered, even though he is skilled at combat. He could roll his Justice. But, as he is specifically outnumbered, he can choose to roll Bravery instead since attacking in this fashion requires some courage, perhaps more than usual, it is thematically more appropriate. The player receives a point of Destiny before the dice are rolled. Obviously there is a trade off there that has to be accounted for (otherwise why bother if you're just going to fail).

Also I'm not sure I'm a fan of regular xp systems. This is because it sends characters one way: they get bigger, badder and better and ultimately it's the inexorable way to take them beyond the system. Improving skills is one thing, but it's not something rpg's do that well.

To be more specific regarding the rules, the player would roll, by default his virtue and a die for his Skill (a set of 8 disciplines that are more akin to professions than singular skills, for example Doctor, Explorer, Soldier, Merchant...). So it isn't just a case of the Virtue acrting alone; that's only half the equation.

Design goals: simple answer, a merge between Weapons of the Gods (because, pass or fail, emulating five element theory and chinese ffolk medicine traditions is very cool) and Cortex Plus (because the systems i've seen using it are simple, effective and well written). Simple answer the second, to emulate heroic wuxia characters in space.

Not sure how to proceed with a resolution system. The two i've been thinking of are listed below,but I suspect, as they use different die types, there might be some imbalances.

The first is simple: Roll two dice, one the Virtue die (the higher the type, the better), the other the Skill die (likewise). Skills are broad descriptors covering aptitude/training/vocation, such as Soldier, Doctor, Explorer, Merchant, Priest, Scholar, Courtier, and Engineer. Difficulty is represented by either a set number (simpler, and preferred) or a 2dX roll (x being a die type representing difficulty). Of course setting a fixed difficulty is hard with different die types as some will struggle too much while others have a ridiculously easy chance. However this setup makes opposing rolls easy (replace opponent's virtue and skill for 2dX).

The second is a bit esoteric: Roll 1 Virtue die type and then a number of d6 equal to the Skill score and total the two best results. Difficulty is 7.