[Poll} Dice Pools: Yay or Nay

Kiero · January 31, 2008, 02:18:28 PM

Love them, long as there's no more than about five dice, and they're not additive.

flyingmice · January 31, 2008, 02:38:02 PM

Quote from: blakkieThe confusing part is that if you are in a system that varies the TN within different parts of the game then the characters with the lower TN are the 'superhumans' but only because they are more consistant. For overall feel the higher TN means reasonable chance for succeeding at a mundane task also provides for a more likely for the same pool to suceed at an over-the-top task that is requiring more successes.

Gotcha. BTW, that was one thing that used to bother me - a "success" doesn't mean a success in many t-r systems. Fine concept, bad choice of word.

-clash

HinterWelt · February 01, 2008, 02:17:44 AM

For dice pools, I am a fan of high-low setups ala oWoD. I am thinking of something like this for Iridium Pool. Basically, skill rank + Stat mod + sit mod equals number of d6 in the pool. Roll pool and count up 6's, subtract 1's. I do not know if this would be too simple. I might need to allow some range like 3 is easy, 4 tough, 5 is challenged and 6 nigh impossible but I am not sure I like the distribution. Maybe start with 4 and go up. Anyway, yeah, some pools are great some are not so much. If I remember, SW d6 was a o.k. while SR seemed kind of not so much fun for me. Too many dice, too much adding that took too long.

Bill

jibbajibba · February 01, 2008, 06:58:57 AM

I would say for simplicity's sake diffculty modifications should be adding and removing dice from the pool as opposed to changing the TN.
Modifying the TN does work but it adds an extra mental step that you don't really need and if you remove it you can as has been pointed out just paint up the faces with TN and up in red or whatever and then it's a really easy count.
Also explosive pools are great but I think you need to be using a d10 to make them rare enough to be 'special'
I am in 2 minds as to whether critical failure (ie 1's ) should detract from sucessess or not I think a situation where you only score a critical failure if you get no TNs and a 1 is better.

Caesar Slaad · February 01, 2008, 09:22:03 AM

I generally dislike dice pools (additive to get a total, or counting success). But as someone alluded to above, dice pools with extra little trick rules like special dice, subtracting or adding successes, different meaning of dice combos, etc., are PARTICULARLY bad. I could stand to play nWoD, for example, but wouldn't touch oWoD with a 10' pole.

flyingmice · February 01, 2008, 09:29:53 AM

Hi Pete:

Take a look at StarPool, my drop-in replacement for StarCluster's usual percentile system as used in Aces And Angels. This shows what I like in a dice pool system:

Relatively small pools, so successes are easy to count
Using a die with numbers rather than pips, and one usually available in fair quantity in a group - my biggest quarrel with Dread TFBoP was the d12 die pools! That means d20 and d10, usually
One success is still a success
Quality of success is part of the chance roll
Uses a variable TN, but the TN is part of the character rather than an arbitrary GM rating
Simple to explain - my group learned it perfectly in less than 5 minutes

I was under some contraints you wouldn't be, as I needed to make it compatable with a completely different system. Anyway, it might give you some ideas.

-clash

blakkie · February 01, 2008, 05:18:25 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceBTW, that was one thing that used to bother me - a "success" doesn't mean a success in many t-r systems. Fine concept, bad choice of word.

Agreed, it is much less confusing when the terminology is something like "hit" or such. Unfortunately there isn't yet a more global term for that. *shrug*

I also like it when you have some success (or at least effect) with a single "hit", even if it isn't all of what you expected. So 1 "hit" is always better than 0 "hits". But that's more of a personal philosophy, always looking for the positive in the larger failure. :deflated:

flyingmice · February 01, 2008, 07:58:40 PM

Quote from: blakkieI also like it when you have some success (or at least effect) with a single "hit", even if it isn't all of what you expected. So 1 "hit" is always better than 0 "hits". But that's more of a personal philosophy, always looking for the positive in the larger failure. :deflated:

Same here. That's what I did with StarPool. More than one success just means a better "hit".

BTW, nice to see you again, Blakkie!

-clash

Skyrock · February 02, 2008, 04:15:46 PM

Neutral. I can only say that dice pools for the sake of dice pools suck as much as do no dice pools for the sake of no dice pools, and I can only add to this that every base mechanic can be fucked up. Dice pools are probably a bit more prone to this as there are more angles to change them, but if they are well crafted, there's nothing to say against them, and they can have some useful effects that aren't easily to achieve otherwise (like camouflaging probabilities to make mastery of the game harder, or by mathematically easy handling by just counting successes and dice rather then calculting anything).

pspahn · February 03, 2008, 06:36:35 AM

Hi everyone,

I posted the basics for the system here:

http://www.therpgsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=173903#post173903

It's more flavor than mechanics at this point, but I'm pretty confident I can make the numbers work if it's worth pursuing. Let me know what you think if you get a chance and thanks,

Pete

Rob Lang · February 27, 2008, 10:56:30 AM

Sorry for being an ignorant but what do mean by dice pools in this case? I've heard the team bandied about but I can't say I really understand.

Thanks for your patience.

flyingmice · February 27, 2008, 11:48:37 AM

Quote from: Rob LangSorry for being an ignorant but what do mean by dice pools in this case? I've heard the team bandied about but I can't say I really understand.

Thanks for your patience.

Dice Pools refer to various dice TR systems where you roll more than three or four dice at once. Single die games or d% games are considered linear TR, games with more than one and less than 5 dice are considered to be bell curve TR, like GURPS or JAGS. With dice pools you can add all the numbers, find relationships like pairs and triplets, look for numbers over or under a threshhold or Target Number, and other such tricks.

-clash

Rob Lang · February 27, 2008, 04:48:27 PM

As always, you're a oracle, clash!

Oh right. I quite like the sound of the mechanic. As long as it remains simple, I think it would be cool to use.

Aos · March 15, 2008, 02:12:13 AM

I should be able to select options two and three. I hate them, but if a GM I like wants to run a game with a system that uses them, I'm not going to bitch about it.

Caesar Slaad · March 16, 2008, 07:04:31 PM

Quote from: flyingmiceDice Pools refer to various dice TR systems where you roll more than three or four dice at once. Single die games or d% games are considered linear TR, games with more than one and less than 5 dice are considered to be bell curve TR, like GURPS or JAGS.

Not quite. The term "dice pool system" is typically used to describe systems in which changes in odds are managed in whole or in part by varying the number of dice. This can be by adding dice or counting the number of "successes" (individual dice exceeding a certain number.)

The upshot is that these are about the only systems that typically exceed 4 dice, as you suggest, but there are some that don't.