What are the most common and obvious pitfalls to using playing cards instead of dice in terms of game mechanics?

Well I'd say the main difference (in probability terms) is that the playing cards are not independent (although this depends on how they are used.

Let me explain. If you roll a dice you get a probability of 1 out of n (where n is the number of sides). If you roll two dice then the two events are independent of each other and you get 1 out of n for die 1 and 1 out of n for die 2. With playing cards if you pick two cards from the pack you have 1 in 52 followed by 1 in 51 (or 1 in n followed by 1 in n-1).

Now you can forstall this by using two separate packs, but that is the most obvious pitfall.

Also if you don't do regular shuffles then you also have a memory issue.

Gavin

There are some obvious pitfalls. As play goes on, and there are less cards in the deck sometimes will endup resulting in some pretty big streaks of high or low cards if they get bunched together.

Some people just wont play an RPG without dice.


OTOH, a deck of cards can be a great timing device for a game that has a countdown mechanic. Such as my system based loosely the VS engine that has an infection mechanic. When the deck runs out of cards a character bitten by a zombie, dies and turns. Naturally, an bitten character "burns" a card every time they make a check or test during play. So basically if they have been bitten and want to make an attack and have a firearms of "3", they'd draw 3 for their attack then draw and discard one that is "burned" by the infection.

Funny enough the system plays somewhat like a CCG (using a standard deck of cards) with the combos and mechanics. It should endup being pretty cinematic.

Well it wouldn't be hard to have the player reshuffle the deck after each action.

I am tempted to develop something with playing cards because of their tactile nature. I like the idea of tying hand size into health, so that, as the character takes damage, his max hand size reduces. This allows a very simple way of tracking health; once a character has to play a card and can't, they are KO'd or whatever.

I came up with an idea whereby characters have stats rated 1-5. Let's say they start with an arbitrary hand of 5, for the sake of argument. They also have an 'Edge' score which pertain to how many cards they redraw after resolving an action.

To succeed at an action, players play cards from their hand to score successes. they can play no more cards than their relevant stat score. each card played that matches one of the required suits, as per the difficulty, scores 1 success.

The difficulty of the action is determined by the number of suits that the player can use to gain successes:

a simple action uses hearts, diamonds and spaces.
average actions use the red cards.
tough actions use just hearts.

This avoids using the numerical value of the cards for the simple reason that the face cards provide an uneven numerical spread unless you rate stuff from 1-13.

Castle Falkenstein has a card based system where the suits relate to types of actions. A card only scores 1 bonus point to your skill unless it is in the suit that the action is pertinent to.

I have not played this, but sounds like there may be a bit of luck involved in it.

Gavin

wow, I'm really glad I continue wasting my time posting ideas on this board.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;236262a simple action uses hearts, diamonds and spaces.
average actions use the red cards.
tough actions use just hearts.

This avoids using the numerical value of the cards for the simple reason that the face cards provide an uneven numerical spread unless you rate stuff from 1-13.

The problem with this is that clubs are useless and hearts are the mega suit that will be kept in hand to await tough actions. I'd prefer a system whereby all the cards were usable at different times.

I like the idea of health tied to numbers of cards, but this would also in a way be tied to your Edge (getting cards back after use). It could certainly work, but might need a bit a thinking about.

Gavin

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;236288wow, I'm really glad I continue wasting my time posting ideas on this board.

WTF is your problem?

As I see it we're giving you input on your ideas, it's not all possitive but what do you expect?

Seriously, if you can't take simple advice and suggestions then you shouldn't bother posting about game design or for that matter designing games in the first place.

Quotea simple action uses hearts, diamonds and spaces.
average actions use the red cards.
tough actions use just hearts.

How about a similar system but using Tarot cards. Actions performed with Minor Arcana work as above. Specific 'feats', enhancements or actions specific to the particular genre or character can only be performed with the Major Arcana. Extended actions could be pumped up by adding a Major card alongside a Minor card.

Quote from: Gavken;236290The problem with this is that clubs are useless and hearts are the mega suit that will be kept in hand to await tough actions. I'd prefer a system whereby all the cards were usable at different times.

I like the idea of health tied to numbers of cards, but this would also in a way be tied to your Edge (getting cards back after use). It could certainly work, but might need a bit a thinking about.

Gavin

There has to be a point where the hand is refreshed otherwise you have obvious problems. It seems a bit more interesting to have an actual draw mechanic, rather than a play one-draw one system.

The other problem is dealing with handlock - not having a card you can play is not only crap but it also prevents the cards from cycling.

I've played a couple of systems with mixed results. I've also read about quite a few. As much as it is nice to have something physical in your mind, I think there is a tendancy to make the card system too complex. Suit, number of the card, picture or not ends up a large number of often complex combinations. Using them to resolve actions requires a lot more thought than looking at a number on a dice (or toss of a coin).

If used, they should be used with care.