I have a bit of a problem with my current project. Let me explain.

Here is my current Project (Summary Outline)

I. This is for campaigns in a Heroic Age, with Mythic Heroes and Active Gods

*A. This is a late Bronze/ Early Iron Age kind of setting.

*B1. There will be three (or more) settings incorporated with this
**1. Greek
**2. Psuedo Greek
**3. More Connan-esk middle realm of lands and such.
Remember: This means it will be a less than perfect job on all of these, rather than one good one. Yet it is flexible.
***OR***
*B2. This is adventure in a Greek like world of mythic heroes, monsters, and active deities. You can have actual Greek adventures, but they would be boring or you would have to follow in the footsteps of the mythic heroes. This allows you to make it up as you go along, just borrowing the background from Bulfinch.
Remember:all historical games are alternate history games... no timestream survives contact with player characters.   Love that quote

*C. The whole world is simpler and easier to deal with. Use mythic measurement and mythic time, as the concept of exact time and measurement has yet to be invented.

*D. There will be active gods that will shape events to some degree, just like in the Greek Myth .

II. Characters will be Mythic Heroes
*A. They will have their own spark, a touch of the divine, that will grant them powers beyond those of mortal men and those of lesser standing will follow them.
*B. This will come across as minor fantasy super powers, like everyone from the Odyssey.
*C. Characters are "toys"/ pawns of the gods. They will lead their people forward and promote the deity's agenda.
*D. There is a deity system, which allows one to quickly and easily keep track of the God's interest in you, your relationship with them, and so on.

III. Other Rules
*A. Lots of MA, because lack of forged items. Use the MA brief System one trait, three cascading traits. Fewer manuvers and simpler system. {You can use MA if you want}  This is not MA kung fu, this is MA mechanics.  Besides Pankreton is a MA.
*B. Special action: Leaping:
*C. Special action : Running, fewer horses means people get from place A to B by walking and running.
*D. Mass Combat: Quick Section- Warriors are so similar, Lv and numbers the only difference. ..
*E. Sailing: /Ship Combat  (This will be the bigger undertaking).
*F. Monster Creation Common, Mythic
*G. Geneology and aging, as there are usually weeks/ months/ years between epic adventures.

So Convergence Point (G2, Continuum v2.0 not C0ntinuum) can handle pretty much all the rules parts of this. Sailing is a variation of the mass combat, which would need to be tuned up and the ship types and sailing components would need to be added. The Mythological Monsters would need to be statted up, but that is not too much of a chore. Character building and God system are in place, just the guidelines needed to make them "Of the Heroic Age".

My problem with the B

B1 means the same amount of space (plus a little) will be divided between 3 settings.

B2 means one setting (less flexibility), yet more identifiable.  The Map would be "mostly Greek world, with a lot more islands, and greek like cultures spread out around the Med.  

I am not doing a Greek Simulation (though it can be used for that) as it will make the learning curve easier. I know you are all hard core history people, but most gamers run screaming for historical accuracy, and will only "kind of hang around" historical movie accuracy.

**I could do B2 and give a section on how to "make your own gods/ bronze age world)

B3  I could punt all the actual greek elements and create a bronze to early iron age fantasy with Doylesk and Burroughesk influences (B1 but eliminate the other two).  

My head is going back and forth on this one. Suggestions?

And to footnote, I am still rewriting my Convergence Point. I am burned out on the two support suppliment writings (Nippon and Martial Arts Genre), and I am looking for something new to work on. I only have a few pages of outline invested on this one as it was a project I messed with a while ago, but left fallow.

My vision for this game would be a Hercules and Xena episode. (While yes, this does mean my game will not be high art, (besides most gamers can act as well as Kevin Sorbo or Lucy Lawless), but it will be fun to play). Yes, some special abilities exist, but they are minor (akin to the level of a pulp supers) low ranking powers, with most characters having only one exceptional ability at a base rank. Divine intervention will seldom be the God comes down, introduces themself, and hits you with the power stick, but little changes as the Game of the Gods needs to be played.

As for my setting, I am going option B2, a Greek Like setting - perhaps as re-imagined by Doyle or Burroughs - Simpler, More Dramatic, and only roughly historically accurate. (Or Think a Greek Hollywood Movie)  So we will have a bigger Greece, more islands around it and in the Inner Sea (analog of the Mediterranean) that are Greek or Greek like/ related, and a few other cultures hiding out there (Celts, Egyptians, and some of the middle eastern countries.) This way Greek Myth (and limitedly, history) can be an inspiration for the game, the GM can pick how much historical/mythic accuracy they actually want to use, and the GM and the Players don't have to feel that they need to become experts in Greek History to play the game. As someone here says, "All Hisorical Games are Alternate History as no timeline surives contact with player characters." Now the player characters can be "the big important players" in some situations.

One great quote came out of that thread...
A Hercules and Xena-like game sounds like fun to me (and I'd throw out the film Jason and the Argonauts as a nice bit of inspiration as well). After all, if you can't have great art you may as well have great trash!  

I would also add that if you were to use the myths as the main source that you frankly shouldn't worry too much about accuracy since the ancients were about as good with continuity as DC Comics is.

Ow.  

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ParaGreece is an old working title for such a setting. I am going to revive it for a bit as a placeholder.

So general myth as inspiration, Zena and Hercules as a benchmark, with a bunch of myth movies to even it out, and a dash of fighting and visuals ala Troy and 300. You're right, I could do much worse.

Convergence Point is a Balanced, Cinematic, Universal Roleplaying game. So doing Greece ala the Media will work.

Gamer Greece. Greece by Doyle and Burroughs. I can do this.
****Aside Somewhere: We appologize to every Greek Scholar and Student of the Classics out there.
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Initial Outline for Project.

I. Introduction
*Points to Hit
**Greek Myths form the foundation for most of our heroic tales (Pulps, Comics, Adventure Fic, and even Speculative Fiction).
**Place for Action and Aventure
**A Kinda Greek - Greece is the foundation. Imagine it re-imagined by Burroughs and Doyle. (OR HOLLYWOOD)
**Greek Heroes all tended to have an extreme ability that stands out. Minor special power.

***Mythic Time, Mythic Distance, and Mythic Truth.

II. About Greece - A Quick Gamer's Guide to Greece (or how to fake it)
**Geography - kinds
**Polis/ City-States
**Food
**Shelter
**Clothing
**Family
**Birth
**Marriage
**Death
**Education/ Training
**The Sea Boats, Fishing, Diving, Trade
**Merchantile/ Trade
**Mil Tech and armies
**General Tech
****Technology is actually much more advanced than we give them credit for. Our ancestors were a smart bunch, so they used everything they could. In addition, we had scientific method (Galen). However, we did not have scientific dispersion, so individuals had great science which they mostly passed on to their apprentices, but it did not disperse to the population. Thus there are great technical miracles using ingenious applications of simple technology, but no over all increase in technology.

III. PC Creation

Kind
**Human – Mundane Regular People Standard character creation
**Human – Spark/ Hero Characters Low starting Meta Lv -
**Human – Demi Gods Characters High Starting Meta Lv - increase in divinity

****Optional - Non Humans - You know someone will want to run a Centaur or Minotaur eventually.

Type
**Warrior
**Rogue
**Athlete
**Archer

**King
**Noble

**Captain
**Sailor

**Sage/ Philosopher
**Teacher
**Physician
**Poet
**Orator

**Priest
**Oracle

**Artisans
**Farmers
**Actors

Milieu -ParaGreece specialty areas per each Polis

Developing - Gifts and Flaws
**Nobility
***Secret
***Royal Family
***Fate
**Mentor
**Nemesis
**Divine connection

**Background in
**Training in


Expanding - Heroic Abilities
**Spark 2+Lv (prime option X from 0-4)
**Demi 7+Lv (prime option X from 5-9)

Diety Ratings (done)


IV. PC's Doing things
**Jobs and Objects of Art, Performance, or Wisdom (Tasks)

**Tacticals - Jumping/ Running/ MA some combat adds

**Mass Combat Wars are fun (include army build rules)

**Sailing - Ship Build Rules

***Ship Combat is plain old regular combat. One ship impulse is 5 regular impulses.

**Wooing/ Family/ Geneology and aging, as there are usually weeks/ months/ years between epic adventures. Family rules (needs serious updating)

**Leading a city - City Build rules (add "SimCity" - leading rules)

Most of these rules are defined in either Convergence Point base book or in my Advanced Sections written, they just need to be data loaded for genre specific things.

V. PC's World
Create a setting
**Pick a section of the map or make one of yoru own
**Pick some Polis or create your own. (This can include non Greek)
****Place Rules as above
**Create relationships and drama between them.
**Add some mythics
**Motivated Players tied to above.

*8-10 example Polis (some historical, some not)
**Athens
**Corinth
**Sparta
**Thebes
**Antioch?

**Minoans
**Crete

*Those Other Countries (2 pages each rough) .
***Each will have their own little write up, and a couple of example archetypes (with some gear)
***Relations with everyone else. Events that go on.
**Celts
**Egyptians
**Persians (others)


Setting Elements to add
**Mythic
****Monsters
****Mythic Races

**Magic (Lots of work, lots of time, then you get a +1)

**Divine

**History and Plot Webs

***side note about Galen and science about how specific science is high, mass science is low)

Campaign
**Sandbox - Motivated Players with strong character movitations..
****Maximum Drama Rules

**The War

**The Leader

**The Trader

**The Monster/ Curse

**The Chess Board (You are now a piece on the board of the Gods. Lucky you)

**Defenders

**The Trip Home


***Heroes are Waunderers
***Heroes are local Nobles/ Heroes./ Of Note

Aside Aim for one shots, but then look for sequels
Aside Quests are mythic!!
3 Run Rule
3 Act Play Rule
3x3 linkage.
Melodrama (plus tragedy, plus comedy)

Appendices
Maps
**Rough History Guide to Greece. Either Here or in II.
Equipment Lists
Weapons/ Armor List
Pronuciation Guide

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Okay People, any Comments? Anything I blantently missed? Points you have about anything (related to this.. otherwise off to Tangency with you). Questions?

I am gathering resources to help flesh this out.  
1) I have a ton of mythology references from my days as an Anthropologist (My focus was modern myth).
2) Gurps Greece - between it and the references it has, I should be okay.
3) I am going to hunt through every other Greek Setting I can find. I own a good chunk of it.
4) I have ordered a bunch of Illustrated Childrens books.  Not only can I pass them on to my kids when they are done, they will have just the right amount of factual details (for gamers) and pretty pictures to inspire my eventual artist with.

Things I need to do

For Monsters
Chimera - the backbone monster type of the Greeks.  Monster Plug ins really are the best way to do this.  Unfortunately, that has just been an idea and never written.  Okay. Something that needed to be done anyways.  

Statting monsters, need to collect the monsters..
Minotaur
Hydra
Gorgon
Lion


Mythic Races
Centaurs  
Amazons  PHY+1, DEX+2, MEN+1, EMO+1 MPY+1 CHA+1  
Dryiads, Nyaids, and the other one.
Giants / Cyclops - descendents of Titans and those that guard them.
Tritons (I think that is the name for them)
Mermaids

Most of the other "races" that people think of Greek Myth (via Generic Adventure Fantasy) were really one offs or a set of three.

Expanding - Meta Gifts
ABL - the most common, allowing them to enhance their own Areas of Expression to superior levels. levels+traits+grade s
INFO - Enhanced Senses (guy on Argon)
Super Stats - One Rank should do it in most cases. / More if Scion.

Okay Hmmmmm.  
Armor? Achilles?
There was that guy with wings, no not Icarus, but actual wings.
other odd mystical abilities ?  Normally not there.  
**Perhaps those odd abilities would be reflected by required gift trait?
Soceresses would have these.  Magic in Greece seems not to be magic in terms of power skill, but of magic not derived from gods.  Zap, your a pig to not put too fine a point on it.  Maybe there is a mix?  So they have a full list of powers AND Magic DR.

Now should this be free choice or listed gifts (for plug and play)?
**I guess we should to a bunch of listed examples.  Give them the option to do builds if they want.

Point to contemplate
*How are we going to do Boon Gifts (Divine Items)
**Should they count against the Meta Gifts?
****Only if Permanent
**Should they be normal Goods Boons with two or three trait cost?
****Only if Perm, but then we have the above.  
**They could just be contact gifts from the divine.  

Divine Rules should reference how to do those Divine Gifts
Divine RulesHow to do Divine Intervention (A greek invention)
**The checks are against the relationship, plus drama

I am looking for input on the project from any quarter, but I have a feeling this one will take on that blog like and work space like aspect that all my project usually take on.

Looking at 3rd source

Intro Adds
Before I cover what the book is, let me cover what it is not.
It is not a full history of Greece in the Classic Era.
It is not a detailed description of the Culture and Lifepaths of the time.
... That includes the religions.
It is not a good listing of the Geography in the Hellenic world.
It is not even a perfect source for Greek Myths
If you use the information in this suppliment for a term paper, you are going to fail.

(Remember that note to do an appology?, this is it.)

This game is all about a Mythic Greece, one where the people lived in mythic time, mythic space, and in many ways mythic truth. It is a bold world, with Gods, Monsters, and a Magic that has been lost to modern ages. **I need to fluff this part.... Get into that heroic narrator voice....

Greece Re-imagined. Bolder. More Action. More Adventure. Less nagging details. Pulp in orrientation.


Development Pieces to Add
God's Gift: You have a knack for a set of skills based on the God's Gifts
God's Curse: reverse of the above

A God is watching you.  Increase your score to 14 or better.  

Bloodline as a major God or minor one.  
**If you are the child of a minor god, you will be rated as Spark/ Heroic, but have access to the odd abilities as per a scion.


NPC/Monster/PC???
Sorceress
In the Greek myths, the only beings who practice magic are the gods and a few mortal women who devote themselves to the darker aspects of Hecate, the goddess of magic. Feared for their power by other mortals, they are tainted in some slight way, either by a lack of morals or a touch of madness. Still, the Hellenic sorceress is a woman with many skills valuable to a traveling hero, and more than once she has been the only reason the heroes succeeded, or survived at all. Circe and Medea are examples of the Hellenic sorceress.

Hellenic sorceresses are directly descended from the gods (Circe was a daughter of Helios, god of the sun, and some say that Medea was Circe's niece). They specifically revere Hecate as their patron goddess. In some ways this is the female version of the Greek Hero. So Sorceresses are born with the talent for their magic, but most never realize it because they are never initiated into the study of magic. The lucky few are found by an established sorceress, trained in the basics of magic, and then leave to study on their own. They have a mentor piece of some kind, depending on their relationship.

Most Hellenic sorceresses prefer to work alone in secluded places, pursuing their magic to the exclusion of all else, but from time to time they encounter someone worth their attention, and once convinced that their involvement would benefit them they have been known to travel with
adventuring heroes on their adventures. They are potent NPCs and can be all the various Cast Roles as needed.

Magical Hubris (Required Flaw):
They have The Will to do magic, like the Gods. Thus their will is strong. Sorceresses see the world divided into three parts: the gods, sorceresses, and everyone else. Many treat common people and even heroes with utter contempt, regardless of their social standing or profession, valuing them only for the minimal services they can perform.

Required: Mentor gift/flaw/set

So why is this an NPC archetype? Because the Greeks saw that while magic was important, it was secondary to the heroic fighter and male. It is also quite powerful.


Magic
It is more about Transformation. Illusion. Nature Control. Just a change of emphasis mostly.
Most magic users are all about the MetaLevel Magic. They might have the Power AoE, but most of their "power" are about the meta abilities.


World
Greece is blessed with a Mediterranean climate. Its winters are cool, if wet, and the summers tend to be hot and dry. The climate suits the growing of grapes and olives (so wine and olive oil play a significant role in Greek commerce). The warm climate meant the ancient Greeks could get by with simple loose clothing, and men—particularly laborers—often went naked.
(WHile this is a good thing, none of the artwork gets to do it.)

The land is varied and divisive. Bays and gulfs separate coastal communities from each other, and some are on islands and completely cut off from land trade. Mountains come between the various cities, and mountain valleys keep apart those settlements sharing a particular mountain. These geographical barriers encouraged each community to see itself as independent rather than part of a larger country, and contributed greatly to the evolution of Greece as a collection of city-states rather than a unified nation like its neighbors such as Egypt and Syria.

Don't think of Greece as just the modern peninsula. There were Greek settlements all over the Aegean Sea, which meant that Greece was more like a landbound country with a large lake in its center. No part of mainland Greece is more than 35 miles from the sea. Certainly the sea plays a significant role in the life of the ancient Greeks, with trade from the west and east coming by sea, fishing providing food to the Greek people, and boating being a rapid form of travel to most major
cities.

Names
Found a source. My old one is dead. Looking in the wayback machine for the old one.

Greek Names
There are hundreds of common Greek names. The names on the short lists presented here were chosen because they sound Greek and periodappropriate. Note that in Greek, a word is pronounced the same whether it ends in "a" or "e" and can be spelled either way. For example, Athena and Athene are the same name and are pronounced the same way (ah-THEENah). However, you should feel free to pronounce them any way you think sounds best.

Male Names: Adras, Aeneas, Baltsaros, Baruch, Cadmus, Chrysostom,
Demetrius, Doran, Etor, Eusebius, Feodor, Feodras, Gelasius, Gregor,
Hesperos, Hippolytusr, Isidore, Istvan, Jeno, Jerome, Kratos, Kyros,
Leander, Lysander, Maur, Meletios, Nestor, Nicolaus, Ophelos, Owen,
Phineas, Porfirio, Rasmus, Rodas, Sebastian, Stefano, Theodosios, Theron,
Ulysses, Urian, Vanko, Vasilis, Xenophon, Xenos, Zale, Zoltan.

Female Names: Alyssa, Ambrosine, Basilia, Berenice, Calantha,
Corinna, Daphne, Dorcas, Erianthe, Euphemia, Fern, Filomena, Gelasia,
Giancinta, Hermandine, Hyacinthe, Iolanthe, Isaura, Jacinta, Jarina, Kalliope,
Kolete, Larissa, Lycoris, Marmara, Melita, Neoma, Niobe, Odessa, Ophelia,
Parthenia, Pyrena, Resi, Rhodanthe, Sandra, Sophia, Theophania, Thera,
Urania, Venessa, Veronica, Xanthia, Xenia, Yalena, Yolanda, Zenobia, Zoe.


GAH Equipment List is a pain. Still look here for it.


Note:
Everyone is roughly literate.
Asclepian medical doctor
Luck is important. It shows that you have the favor of the Gods.
Did out Karumijitsu (heck the various martial arts for these guys)
Slaves happened. However, thjey were different than what we think of them.
The Polis or City State. Wiki has some good things to add to this, ....
Got to have that Homosexuality aside.
Wealth: Not the motivator you might think it is. Material Culture not as strong here as later cultures.
Address the mythic
**Plots from those to be part of the scenarios
Do I need a section on the Olympics?


Must research what will make this more mythic.

Some Notes on the special combat actions.  

Leaping is a grander feat than most people on our world believe.  In the Land of the Greeks, tumbling and acrobatics were all part of everyday life.  Thus the art of the leap and tumble were magnified.

Making a Leaping Die Roll, allows a Greek to cover a Medium distance, instead of the expected small distance (expanded for running).  

A leaping strike (with made die roll) gains a +2 MOD to attack, a leaping move through and a leaping move by, recieve this mod.  

If engaged, leaping then attack, as a combination, grants the +2 MOD and +2 Special MOD.  The +2 S-MOD can be for offense or defense.

Leaping or Tumbling can be used defensively.  They grant a +2 special MOD.  A successful roll will allow the negation of engagement.

Will need to include traits for close combat and close combat with weapons (as clinching and wrestling are common).

Other combat traits to include would be
Shield Grab
Grappling skills in general  (Pankreaton)
Head butt
Mighty Blow, and various bonuses when using some of the main book basic actions.

Point to consider: Do I really want real martial arts, with the complex tertiary traits?  I think making more trait and including the concept of combos might do it.

Running, with a successful roll, is not a strenuous action for endurance purposes.  These are people used to running longer distances.  (Sprinting still a strenuous action).

btw, I did read through much of this and am digesting it.

Just be careful of the frequency distribution of the slightly higfher tech stuff. Yes, and incredibly tiny part of the population had access to higher learning and passsed down knowledge, but it might as well have been magic.

And reknown and early networking were should be seen as important as wealth.

Do martial arts as an add in, after the carthaginian/egyptian expansion pack....

Quote from: LordVreeg;312641Just be careful of the frequency distribution of the slightly higfher tech stuff. Yes, and incredibly tiny part of the population had access to higher learning and passsed down knowledge, but it might as well have been magic.

They should be ... well mythic... so there is very little of it, or it is concentrated in specific places and times.  It is, in many ways, magic.   "Cool Items" of tech really are going to require special gifts to have, they are just not that common. (Expensive to make in parts and effort.)  If you can make them, you might have more, but then you have to spend time and effort making and maintaining them (trade off).  

Quote from: LordVreeg;312641And reknown and early networking were should be seen as important as wealth.

Status is the biggest Area of Expression in this setting, as "The Opinion of the Polis" is much more important than your legal rights in matters of rulership.  That is reflected in the rules.  Social Networking, via the Contacts Area of Expression, is possible as are various ally, contact, and nemesis gifts and flaws.  You are right, I should bump that up in importance.

Quote from: LordVreeg;312641Do martial arts as an add in, after the carthaginian/egyptian expansion pack....

The entire mythic world as seen by Borroughs or Doyle.  That would be fun. Heck I can just abuse history completely then (just like Zena and Hercules).  I have dabbled with an Egyptian setting a time or two, but have yet to get anything that was catchy.  Carthage... wellllll.  As of the moment, they (plus the Persians and Celts) are getting a one or two page listing along the lines of "Those other people way over there".  Since they are not Greeks, they are not getting "flattering" write ups. Atlantis is getting the same treatment, should anyone get past the Gates of Hercules.    

There probably won't be any follow up books on this, even if this project gets past the detailed outline stage. My financer has yet to "be enthused" by the project. It will probable end up being a third tier release (However, who knows, if it is wildly popular....)  

The structure for martial arts is each martial arts trait/ skill has 3 emphasis.  These show the technique or strategy for that martial art.  So you could have the Myrmidon skill trait twice, the first being total offense (Attack, Offense, and Attack Again), the second being a deceptive feint, disarm, strike combo, for example.  It is a page count thing. The stripped down simple version of the martial arts rules would be 6 pages, and a page more for the various "martial traditions" available to them. Building ships is a 2 page thing. Fighting with them is a half a page.  Mass Combat is 4 pages because of the Very Greek Examples. It just seems out of proportion for the project and those 6 pages could be better spent in description.  The Martial Arts Genre Book, which is one of the first sequence suppliments, will be there for people who wanted to add it.   I might just add some technique traits (like the few above) that give you some edges.

Ship Combat special actions:

Ship Stats are used with the Captain's skill for most rolls.

Ramming: If ships at close ship range, it can draw in running its prow into another ship.  This is a moving attack with Captain's Attack Roll.  Prows can be augmented for additional damage.  Apply ship wounds, stun, and impairments.

Pulling the Bow:  After a ram, a captain attempt to disengage their bow from the other ship. PHY+Captain Roll (opposed if desired).  Pulling the Bow, does ramming damage (without speed) to the rammed boat.

Shearing: If ships at close ship range, a ship is drawn close to another in an attempt to destroy one sides oars.  This is a captain's attack roll at -3. It is defended normally.

Clear the Water: This is the Dodge action Shearing action.  It is a Crew Roll with the +3 for dodge modifier.  

Come along side:  If ships are at close ship range, this daring manuver allows a ship to come within a warrior's medium or short range of each other.  It requires a Captancy Roll (as an attack) contest, defended by the opposition's captain roll.  (unless both sides wish to come alone side).  An R# of greater than 3 is required to come to close range.  At this point bows, thrown weapons, or thrown grapples are possible. Unarmored fighters can attempt to swim and board each ship.  (Certain bows can be used at medium, need to check my numbers).  Shearing without Shearing

Boarding:  After coming along side, the captain can attempt to board.  Crew slots abandon their oars and sails and grab their weapons.  Grapples are thrown, the other side attempts to cut them before the two ships which are locked together.  "Grab Manuver"

A rammed ship can "board" the ramming ship, to prevent them from Pulling the Bow.

Swim and Board:

Damage Control/ need a better name:  Recover stun damage in the short term by shoring up the boat, crew, supplies, etc.

One of the perks of Greeks and reason to be liked by the players is that everyone can be a King, Prince, or Son of a God. And thus, in a single party can most, if not all players be princes and/or divine origin.

The many chieftains called kings from Ancient Greeks - everybody was a king or prince in those days.

It is not so much about Law as it is about people's belief in you. Thus the most popular guy in the area could be King. (As long as anyone else who could claim to be king in the area was dead.) Thus Status is an important for advancement.



This is the age of the myth, so continuity and logic does not have to follow. So all you know is that you were raised by your family and your Father loved you... later you can find out you were the son of Aries.

Most heroes have a divine gift or a divine parantage. However many get to be nobles, if not kings. And if you aren't the child of a "Big God", you could always have divine blood through some second tier or third tier god or mythic figure. (And your dad could have heroic blood (divine parentage), so you just get a spark from him.)

And being third son of a king, no wonder they'd rather set out for an adventurous journey, than wait in the shadow of older brothers. It worked for Paris, of Hector and Paris in Troy/ Illiad.
'cept for that war and stuff, that wrecked his kingdom.



Odysseus was a mortal... you could grant some particular sort of gift for actual mortals.

Actually Mortals, in G2, will have an edge. They will have a lower experience modifier (not having a gift of the Gods), thus advancing faster. Admittedly it is only a 15% edge, but that can add up. And it is like playing Batman, you have to play smart. In the game, as in the Oddessy and Illiad are super powers are pretty small. So being Mortal is not that big of a disadvantage. (If the GM allows Demi-Gods, then maybe... but it could work. See Hercules and Iolaus.

The Game has enough potential for mortals to become legends. They can be Legends through status and reputation, via deeds, or could pick up some magical ability or item or gift.

Aside: Potential is a power in the meta systems. It allows you to have "ready points" to be spent on special things. You carry around this tiny ep burden, but it allowes for instant expansion.



Gift Notes:
God's Gift: skill boosts

God's Fate: Make MPY+LUK DRs to get a quirk of fate/ lucky event related to the God's domain.

Powers can require activations, if you let players build them using the meta system.

Most Divine Gifts are meta abilities (or a low degree).
Meta Boon trait switch is off. In this meta system, no second traits are allowed without serious juju and gifting).

INFO - Super Senses
One level of Supper Attributes
Ability MEs for skills and areas
Movement powers are options
Defense of shield and slight resistance are good
Hand Damage and such from offense.
Wings.
Gills + water move
Animal inspired powers... seem like an idea, but really never done in real Greek Myth... of course what does that mean to us?

Equipment ME - the only one allowed to have extra traits.

sounds like sidekicks and mentors will have a lot to do.

And the relationship to the gods, both large and small, might mean a ton.  Am I right?  
Wo do the gods speak through?

Sacred chorus', dithyramb, etc?

I need to write more about mythic time, mythic space, and mythic truth.
 
Mythic Time is just that... hard timelines don't exist.  You could get back from a 20 year war and see your small son as a teenager.  Things are not hard measured.
 
The same goes with distances.  There are no true surveyors, just map makers doing a good guess.
 
Mythic Truth goes along with this.  Continuity not important.  What is in the past is mutable by belief or just current events.See.
 
Mythic things allow the GM greater freedom.  And people to have more fun as they don';t have to worry about times, distances, or adhering to this history/continuity.
 
People travel at the speed of Plot.  They arrive at destinations for the same reason.  Continuity keepers have been shot, just go with the good story and the mythic flow.
 
Things happen because they are a good story, rather than any special path of history.
 
 
So the GM needs not to be "to tied up" in anything exact.
"Good enough" is a good measure.
 
Why?  Because the Gods made it so.

I really need to enshrine that line.  
 
Here there be lions - and legends, a phrase that came up when describing things in the game.  A metaphor to be sure. However it inspired some thoughts...

Lions are still plentiful in Europe at this time.
All those "African" animals survived in Africa, but were eliminated in Europe because of the Romans

And on a farther note:  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_be_dragons (Hic sunt leones.)

And one of the reasons for Mythic Space (that and less than stellar navigation abilities). We are just extending this and making it codified.

Quote from: LordVreeg;312906sounds like sidekicks and mentors will have a lot to do.

Yes they should be.  In Convergence Point they can be Gift Traits, Flaw Traits, or Neutral Traits.  
*Gift Trait: Your Sidekick or mentor is a serious advantage, the amount of advantage is based on the amount of gift purchased.
*Flaw Trait: Your Sidekick or Mentor is a problem.  
*Neutral trait:  Your sidekick is a PC and you get bonuses when working with your PC sidekick/mentor.  

This will be expanded for the setting.

Quote from: LordVreeg;312906And the relationship to the gods, both large and small, might mean a ton.  Am I right?  Who do the gods speak through?  Sacred chorus', dithyramb, etc?

There is an entire system of God Relationships. Persona aspects system is a place.  

OF THE GODS                                 
Each God will have three values and a trait.
The first is the intensity of the relationship between the Hero and the God (and the forces represented).  This is how often a God might interfere in a Hero’s life.  

   Most people will have scores of 1-6, +1 for appropriate city, profession, and family. Roll a 6, you can opt to roll and extra 2d6

Heroes will have 2-12 Gods which are greater than the 1d6.  Start with a 10, or 3d6 , 1d20, or 4d6-4 or really, make a choice.

The other two are an opposed set representing a positive view of the God and its realm and a negative view.  

Loyalty/Love/Honor/obedience tp the God
VS
distain/dislike/hatred/fear

You could have your opinion of the God/ and the God’s opinion of you. ??

Certain gods are partially opposed, so if you have Athena at 16, the best you can have Aries is 12 (20-(16/2)). A few are directly opposed.   Hades vs Zeus (12/

There is a trait that explains the relationship between you and the god – the intensity.
   Love/ hatred/
   Testing
   Challenges
   Doting Parent
   

Zeus -         The king of the gods  God of Sky and Thunder
Aphrodite  -    Goddess of love, lust, beauty,
Apollo -      God of music, prophecies, poetry, archery, and the sun
Aries -      God of war, murder and bloodshed
Artemis -      Goddess of the hunt and wild things, and the moon
Athena -      Goddess of wisdom, warfare, handicrafts and reason.
Demeter   -   Goddess of fertility, grain and harvest
Dionysus   -   God of wine, parties/festivals, madness and merriment
Hades -       God of the underworld
Hephaestus -    God of fire and the forge
Hera -       Goddess of marriage, women, and childbirth
Hermes -    God of flight, thieves, commerce, and travelers
Hestia -       Goddess of the hearth, home, and household
Poseidon -   God of seas

You can pick up lesser gods as appropriate.  

A Hero hated by Hera and is frequently harassed by her would have
Hera  15    4/16  
A Hero known for sailing and captaincy.  He is positive in his view of Poseidon, but other than living with the sea, the two have no relationship.
Poseidon   7 -  13/7
A scion of Aries who has difficulties with his father, especially since he often ignores him….     Aries   11   10/10   (that 11 is low for a scion of a god)

Belief in a God can provide motivation modifier
   *If acting for the God, pluses
   *If acting against, use the adverse
   *If performing tasks that are in the god’s sphere, modifier.


Godly Attention – thought –
You can have a score that can be used a modifier because of your belief in a God can color your skills.  Thus if you are doing poetry or archery, Apollo’s belief will fill you with better skill.  This would be your first score, not your attention.   Attention has the trait


There will be a system for making sacrifices and gaining boons.  These boons will be drama points that can be spent for things in the God's Domain.  

So if you sacrifice to Venus, you get drama points to spend towards a relationship. (and if you botch the sacrifice's Worship roll... maybe the GM gets to complicate things)


As for what the Gods speak through
 Look at the myths.  You go to the Oracle.  You go to the Temple in your city.  Okay, those are the priests. An old guy talks to you. A scholar or the mouthpiece of the Gods? You get advice from a swan. You get a voice from the clouds. Gods working in mysterious ways. The God comes down and talks with you. Gods are not always so mysterious.

The Answer: What ever the GM wants to use.  

I mean this.  

What ever is convenient and fits the tone of your campaign (wacky or serious, noble or godly folly)  

We are not doing a game of the Classics, with reasons behind everything.  Mythic Truth says, reality should not interfere, because the mythic story is what is important.  

Besides, once you have the God's attention... they still keep looking at you... thus, if you have seen the myths, not always the best thing.  

Note to self: Contact with God modifier to intensity. Have contact with God, it will probably change... and not in the direction you probably want.  Nobody likes being a piece in the Games of the Gods.  

Quick Summary of the game rules being used.

Convergence Point is a Balanced, Cinematic, Universal Roleplaying game designed for quick descriptive play, with no reference to the book during play. The balancing factor is the twin elements of game design traits and elements, combined with an advancement modifier (if you want to start as a grizzelled vetren or a highly trained agent, you can, you just will advance slowly when compared to The farm boy.) The old harder to use mechanics were in 96 pges, the new version will be around 228 and include 40 pages of a new setting. The Game has been used for fantasy, anime mecha, super heroes, Japanese Fantasy, Pulp Heroes, Kung Fu action, Supernatural Hunters, Supernatural Adventures, and a couple of of other things. A quick run through Hellas/ Greece should not be a problem for the mechanics, just certain things need to be clarified. (Ship combat is the same as regular combat, except the turns are 5 times as long and there are a couple of Hellenic Ships specific actions that can be taken for example).

To the mechanics: There are three core things that everything is wrapped around

Elements give characters the ability to do things.
Traits define what the elements do best.
Levels are the numbers pluged into formulas and game mechanics.

So each element will have a level rating its effect and one or more traits showing what it can be used best for.

The character (and everything really) is made up of. .....

Prime Aspects: Six Stats 4d6-4 for each's levels, each gets a trait that defines it.
PHYsical, DEXterital, MENtal, EMOtional, MetaPhYsical, Charismatic.
Stat/ Aspect's level is divided by 3 to generate a modifier.

Each character has a prime trait which defined their Kind (race), Type (Archetype/ Class/ Profession/ Calling/ Role), and Millieu. You will choose what fits the campaign, the GM will usually give you guidelines or an actual list for which facets can be used.

For example: Human Warrior of Athens.

Each of the three facets of the trait is expanded into mechanics as needed.
*Human, nothing in this case
*Athens, nothing in this case, but the trait gives you a general knowledge of Greek Culture, Greek Language, and a knowledge of all things Athens.
*Type is normally expanded into mechanics. Each character will have a focus, the things they do best. As they advance, the things they are focusing on will gain in level/ effect. These things will receive more traits as well. Each skill has a point cost 1-3, and a character's focus can have up to 10 points. Many stanard types will have defined skillfocuses, so you can grab and go OR build your own.

The Generic list of Skills/ Areas of Expressions has a bunch of listings: Animal Handler, Artistic, Athletic, Business, Combative, Communication, Craft, Deception, Deduction, Education, Focus, Guile, Influance, Knowledge, Language, Luk, Meta, perception, Performance, Science, Social, Status, Strategy and Tactics, Style, Survivial, Powers, Technology, and Vehicle. Some are not used in every setting, some are added.

There are gifts and flaws that develop the basic characters. These are both generic (found in every adventure setting) and things that are bound to Paragreece/ Of the Heroic Age.

The basic mechanics for resolving actions is the Die Roll.:
Attribute Roll+Skill Level+/- Modifiers

The Attribute Roll is 4+its modifiers
The Skill component is the Skill's level 1-5, but can go much higher.
Modifiers, well you are all gamers.. yo know.

These die rolls range from 1-20, with most rolls being from 8-13. Roll that number or under on 1d20. There are some other roll rules and ways to use the rolls, but this is the basics.

If you haven't read the post above this, you really should. I will wait.

Back? Good.

I am not sure if I want to keep the general list, or customize a list for Of the

Heroic Age.
Note to self: Athletics is expaned in this setting. Not so much for what it does, but with an explanation of how to do those things.

The game is designed to be completely customizable, so this is not a stretch, but let me list some options.

1) Add a few things.

Sea: The knowledge and actions of Sailing, Fishing, and the Sea. The existance of this AoE makes being a sailor easier mechanically, rather than having to stick with Craft Sailor, Athletic Sailor (which is not a bad things), and various other things for a captain (though a captain might want those specialty skills).

Battle: Martal Areas Skill Area. Keep the full and cool martial arts skills OR use a neutered version and keep combative as the sole combat orriented area.

Divine: Ability to work with The Gods, Sacrficies, and deal with the temples. Like Sea, would be covered by several different, but limited skills (Knowledge, Social, and Power)

Modify the Athletic skill area: Not that it changes what it covers, but needs to have better descriptions and mechanics for what you can do with it. This would be part of the 9.0 section run amok.


2) I could opt for a very simplified version, with the basic major listing of:
This, with the addition of Sea, is known as Basic Major, a listed variation of the Prime Skill List.

Athletic
Combative
Craft All those making, brewing, working skills.
Deception
Knowledge (including deduction and science)
Luck
Natural: Survival, Animal Handling, and practical nature knowledge.
Sea: Sailing skills, Swiming, and knowledge of ports, tides, etc.
Social: Social skils, communicaiton skills, and Languages,
Technology: making and use of technology, including Forgework
Power: Saved for NPCs really.

3) The things I was thinking about was the 14 skills for the Greater Gods of the Pantheon.

Zeus - Skills of Oration, Status, and Leadership
Aphrodite - Style and Romance,
Apollo - Music, Archery, Athletics, and Prophecy
Aries - Combat , Stragegy and Tactics
Artemis - Hunting, Animal Craft, Wood Craft
Athena - Knowledge, handicrafts, and combat.
Demeter - Farming and all food crafting
Dionysus - Parties, Dancing, Contacts/ social, Athletics to resist damage,
Hades - Death Preparation, some Medical, Dreams (little death)
Hephaestus - Metal Crafting, Technology,
Hera - Social/ Manners, some Medical, and some womanly skills.
Hermes - Limited Athletics, Knowledge of Travel, Deception, Luck
Hestia - All the other craft skills
Poseidon - Sailing, Swiming, and Horses.

Now my thoughts.....
A) Keeping to the basic list makes the game more accessible to players of other Convergence Point settings. I could leave it with the core things, and leave it up to the GM to adapt things to their view. (Throw it on the GM's shoulders....)

B) Adding a few things might be easier for players and GMs, but adds layers of complexity. It also makes crossover a little harder. I could list them as options, for you to add. They have a lot of overlaps, which brings up the "I have two skills which apply (usually meaning one and one that really doesn't but the player is going to try and use it). Yet they do clear things up.

You see Convergence Point is the game of Cross Tmporal/ Dimensional Adventure at its heart. In fact the default setting is, like GURPs, cross dimensional (Less Piper more Dr.Who/ Sliders). So, this would be either a campaign books for some or a setting book of a place to visit for others.

C) Tossing it all out and going with the simplified set. This is a great set. In fact, it is recomended for simple games or begining game groups. Of course does that stamp this game setting as "Simple". This has good and bad. In many ways, it is simple. It is a lighter and funner view of Greek Adventuring.

D) The 14 skills. These are very setting orriented. They are quite the artistic endevor in game design. They are also harder to translate than others. (Also no good abbreviations for them, but that is a trivial concern.) It increases the learning curve, especially for those people who are not up on their Greek. There are some gaps in the skills. Would that matter? It does make translating across worlds a little tougher. Yet, should that be an overriding consideration since this is an actual setting/genre books, not just a small suppliment for a "place to visit".

Anyone have some thoughts?

I do need comments on the previous two posts.  Read that. Think about a response to those.  The come back and read this post.  

I am not going to wait this time... I am going to go on... you can catch up.

I am currently stalled on the core rules behind Of the Heroic Age.  It is the middle of the book blues.  I have done 110 pages of the 240 pages.  I am stalled on all those "middle rules", not die rolls (and all those core ones) or tactical (that rewrite was easy).  I am stalled on the rules for diseases, toxins, poisons, and drugs.  I am stalled on some cast rules and some GMing things (which my opinionated self should just be able to pang out).  I can't bring myself to do the section showing how the tactical rules can be used for social conflicts (or Golf) so you know they can be expanded.  I am just stuck.

I am diddling 8 lines a night because I refuse to give up.  I don't hate the project.  No hate for a project is still about the Albatross of the Argon  ( http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=424444 ).   I haven't done much on this project because I need to do some more research before I can properly fill in some of the empty sections.  

I have done a little tinkering on a great little setting called Project Ice Setting (yes this one needs a new title) where Arctic Rangers and Snow Witches support a lawful culture which tries to impose order on the anarchy that is the Beast Folks.  The drama knot for this one is when an Ice Folk places a boundry maker on a Beast Folk holdy place.  (All heck breaks loose after decades of peace).  I am working on a full and detailed outline for it and may try to make an experimental mock up of the book... because it would be interesting.  If I can't write the core rules, I should be doing something useful.

I am working on trying to get enthusiasm back on the core rules.  I will probably be dinking little bits of text on this setting as well.  I think the various text boxes for each Archetype will be my next little project if the research does not go well.  

Thank you for listening.