TheRPGSite

As some of you may have gathered from recent posts I've made hereabouts, my 7-year-old son, with whom I've played RPGs in the past (HeroQuest if you didn't know), has recently become exposed to D&D 3E through his friends on the school bus.  They apparently play a very loose, wild, freeform version of the game that might appall some of you here. (My son was baffled by the dice I produced and told me point-blank, "Dad, what are these dice for?  You don't play Dungeons & Dragons with dice." :haw: )  

Now, I used to play 1st edition AD&D myself.  It was the first RPG I ever played, back as a freshman in high school, and our games featured all the good and bad that you'd expect from that combination.  It wasn't long before I grew dissatisfied with the whole level-based system, moved on to Traveller and RuneQuest and swore off D&D forever.  Well, some 30-odd years have gone by (yes, I'm that old), and I've recently become exposed to the 3E myself, through a PbP game here on this site.  I'll admit that I'm surprised and pleased at what they've done with the game.

So, long story short, indulging both my son's interests and mine, I combed a couple of local used book stores and found near-mint copies of the v3.0 PG, DMG, and MM (I'm so very pleased that they've kept the titles identical, even if the contents and organisation have changed significantly), and am supplementing them with an online version of the 3.5 SRD.  Together we've begun to roll up a character or two, and tonight we began his first real D&D campaign.

In this thread, I'm going to post periodic updates about how it's going, both for a first-time D&D-er, and for an old-skool AD&D-er trying to get the hang of the new rules.  Hopefully it will prove interesting, and maybe even instructive.

Cheers,
!i!

I´ll be reading.

I just hope I won't be damaging his brain.

Sorry.  I couldn't resist. :p

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI just hope I won't be damaging his brain.

Sorry.  I couldn't resist. :p

!i!

Dude, you laugh now.... I saw one guy on Story-Games saying he seriously tried to hide the existence of Dungeons and Dragons from his kid, but the kid found out about anyway, because he saw the D&D cartoon.

Just enough Donny Most and Willie Aames to leave anyone brain damaged!

Quote from: Abyssal MawDude, you laugh now.... I saw one guy on Story-Games saying he seriously tried to hide the existence of Dungeons and Dragons from his kid, but the kid found out about anyway, because he saw the D&D cartoon.

Get. The Fuck. Out.

Now, I'll admit that I've had a pretty dim (and largely unfounded) opinon of anything D&D since about 1980, but then, the last time I actually played the game was in 1983.  I figured my kids would never see it in my home just because I'd made a decision that I had no interest in it myself.  I think, in large part, I have to credit my son for prompting me to open my eyes.

!i!

Well, if my 8 year old is any indication; the real draw of D&D is the miniatures. They look like little toys.

I should post some of the APs of the solo campaign I did with my 8 yr old kid.

Some of the highlights:

I made a deal with him that we wouldn't do character death. (He even gets upset when his guy merely takes damage. haha, sorry Settembrini.) Instead if you lose all your hit points you are "knocked out", and lose a percentage of your gold on hand. This to me, is totally fair in a D&D sense, because we play with the 'raise dead' options on. So it's just like an automatic reset, and instead of raise dead costing 6500 gp, it costs 50% of what you have on hand.

This also encourages a "bank" metagame, which was kinda cool. As soon as he had enough cash he would get out to bank it.  

We also improved this when we did our 'Futuristic D&D game': This was basicaly a solo game where he was a "star elf wizard" who worked on an exploration starship.

In the space game, when you go below 0 hit points, your character was teleported away from danger (back to the ship) by the "Ship's computer". You still lose a percentage of gold.  

The game format was, the ship would go to a new planet, beam down his character, and he would have a mission to do. Usually map out an area, rescue a missing explorer, or find something (an alien beacon, or an alien wildlife or plant sample).

Since this was a solo game, we changed summoning rules to be "1 hour per level". This was because he wanted an interchangeable pet, like a pokemon type deal. In this case he had a squawky fiendish raven that would get summoned to help him out.

I may have to run this again soon. My life is on hold until after DDXP.

So starting things off, my son and I rolled up a couple of characters with the assistance of this Javascript D&D 3.5 Character Generator (http://www.pathguy.com/cg35.htm).  It's a pretty nifty program that really helped us keep track of what was what and to calculate the fiddly stuff that we were likely to overlook as newbies.  At first, he rolled up an Elf Fighter, wanting to become a supreme archer someday (and little did he know about the Arcane Archer prestige class).  However, this character got lost somewhere over the course of a couple of days, so we sat down and actually rolled the dice in accordance with the suggestion in the PHB.  His rolls, in order, were as follows:
   17, 14, 7, 16, 10, 12
He then declared that he wanted to be a Gnome.  I guess gnomes have developed a certain geek caché among his mates on the bus.  He also liked the looks of the Ranger in the PHB, so that's the class he chose.  Together we figured out which rolls would match which characteristics best, which would maximise his character with racial modifiers, and assigned them accordingly.  The program essentially did the rest for us, and here is the character he created:

QuoteMendor
Male Gnome Ranger, 1st Level
Neutral Good

STR 12   (+1)
DEX 16   (+3)
CON 19   (+4)
INT 12   (+1)
WIS 10   (+0)
CHA 7   (-2)

Size:   Small
Height:   3' 8"
Weight:   47 lb
Skin:   Tan
Eyes:   Blue
Hair:   Gray; Straight; Beardless

Total Hit Points: 12
Armor Class: 17 = 10 +3 [studded] +3 [dexterity] +1 [small]

He carries a pair of scimitars (scaled-down scimitars, of course -- I figure the map effectively to the kukri stats) and a composite short bow.  We didn't realise at the time that the low Wisdom was going to have an effect upon his ability to cast Ranger spells, but my son very philosophically stated, "I can always figure out a way to raise his Wisdom and Charisma later."  Good for you, son.  He seems genuinely happy with the character, particularly since he discovered the picture of the gnome warrior in the Monster Manual.

Next up, beginning play.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHe carries a pair of scimitars (scaled-down scimitars, of course -- I figure the map effectively to the kukri stats)

The 3.5 SRD weapon description table has the numbers for that. But your instinct was dead correct. Crit range and multipliers stay the same, damage is lowered one step for Small, two steps for Tiny, on the scale of: 2d8->d12(or 2d6)->d10->d8(or 2d4)->d6->d4->d3->d2->1. Going up to Large size is a bit wierder.

QuoteWe didn't realise at the time that the low Wisdom was going to have an effect upon his ability to cast Ranger spells, but my son very philosophically stated, "I can always figure out a way to raise his Wisdom and Charisma later."  Good for you, son.

He's got several thousand XP to do so. Wise beyond his years! His mother is clever I take it? ;)

EDIT:  Besides with 3e da power move is to immediately multiclass out of Ranger into Fighter or Rogue now that he's got the sweet frontloaded Feats and the ability to use any divine spellcaster created wand on the Ranger spell list. Wisdom is irrelavent to that.....what? Hey, if he's gonna learn to play D&D he'll eventually learn to powergame. Might as well learn to powergame where you can keep an eye on him and he isn't going to get into Monty Haul trouble with his friends. :D

EDIT2: Oops. As a gnome he'll eventuall suffer that multiclassing XP penalty if he goes with one of those two and doesn't split near even with his Ranger levels. Tough call there if it'd be worth it. Bard is the race favoured class in 3.5, I think it was Illusionist specialization of Wizard in 3.0. Both very dubious multiclasses given his stats.

P.S. Diceless D&D? LOL, but makes sense since Dice+Bus Seats+Potholes=Da Suck.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThey apparently play a very loose, wild, freeform version of the game that might appall some of you here. (My son was baffled by the dice I produced and told me point-blank, "Dad, what are these dice for?  You don't play Dungeons & Dragons with dice." :haw: )  

!i!

I am curious if your son still plays the free form bus 'campaign' with his friends now that he has been introduced to a more formal version of the game.

Do you know if it has had any impact on that?

I for one think that the way he and his friends play the game on the bus is excellent and inspiring. Kids know how to have fun.

I hope you and he have a great time with 3rd Edition. I think they did a great job with that as well.

Quote from: blakkieWise beyond his years! His mother is clever I take it? ;)

You're a clever monkey, you know that?

As far as powergaming goes, don't worry -- he already has that on the brain, though he hasn't worked it out mechanically yet.  I've been reading up on multi-classing (man, it's a lot more sensible and easier to implement than the old AD&D rules) and have just brought it to his attention that he can do so practically whenever he wishes.  Of course, I'm directing him more toward the appropriately-themed prestige classes.  If he gives up on the notion of becoming a world-class archer, his gnome ranger could become a kick-ass Shadow Dancer.

Quote from: Michael MI am curious if your son still plays the free form bus 'campaign' with his friends now that he has been introduced to a more formal version of the game.

Do you know if it has had any impact on that?

Not that I know of.  It's a bit like they're different games entirely.  On the bus, he's buying white dragon eggs, semi-automatic crossbows, laser swords, what-have-you.  In our campaign, the adventure is brought much more down to earth, but (I hope!) is more satisfying by being more of a challenge.

You know, it's occurred to me that a side benefit of this thread will be for me to pose questions that arise in play as I begin to navigate my way through the new mechanics.  I'll be eager for more experienced input.

!i!

So, with a character all rolled up from the previous evening, it was time to get down to adventuring.  I had a general idea for an adventure based loosely on a one-shot a friend had run for our gang years back, and also inspired by the opening situation for the old AD&D tournament module, "The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan".  The general situation was that my son's character, Mendor the gnome ranger, had been taken by slavers along with a number of other demi-humans (do they still call them that, or are they all "humanoids" now?).  Geographically, I decided to use a map very loosely based on the real world's.  The pirates set out from the geographical analog of roughly Portugal, down toward the geographical analog of the Barbary coast, when a terrible storm struck for days, driving them far, far off course and against the prevailing currents, eventually sinking the ship and most of the crew and captives with it.

Mendor found himself waking one morning, washed up on the shore of the rough analog of Venezuela, debris from the pirate/slaver ship strewn all up and down the beach.  His first task was to clothe himself with whatever he could find and assemble whatever supplies he could manage from the wreck.  I made it clear that what he could see on the shore was far from all of the ship itself, so it was reasonable to assume that either everything else had sunk to the bottom of the ocean, or that currents may have carried flotsam and survivors farther up or down the coastline.  Mendor found a couple of dead pirate's bodies and looted them for basic clothes, a small boot knife to serve as a dagger, and a couple of cruelly-curved longknives that would serve him admirably as scimitars.  He also located a sack, water-logged rations for a day or so, some lengths of rope, some sturdy canvas, and a bolt of slik cloth.

Now, there are some very good reasons I set this up the way I did.  First, landing my son's character in a strange land easily hand-waives the need for any familiarity with the setting or history.  It's all strange and the player is at no more of a disadvantage than his character.  Second, there's an immediate need for adventuring and exploring.  Third, it provides an opportunity for future conflict -- he has no idea whether or not any of the pirate crew survived, nor what they might do to him if any survivors ever encounter him.  Also, if any of his friends ever want to join the game, there's a built-in opportunity for any other character of virtually any other race to have been washed up on shore farther on.  Lastly, though it's going to be heavily fictionalised and anachronistic, I intend to mix in lots of real world geography, geology, and anthropology to the campaign.  As I told my wife, "If he's going to play D&D, he's going to learn something from it."

So, as Mendor wandered down the beach looking for more supplies, he rounded a rocky promonitory and encountered a small gang of six goblins about 60 yards off doing exactly the same thing.  I had both my son and the goblins make an Initiative roll to see who noticed who first, and Mendor won.  I made it clear that he didn't recognise these as any sort of creature he had seen on the slave ship, and that they appeared to be carrying odd, ball-peened clubs and slender javelins.  Being a little headstrong, my son thought the best course of action was to take them on, and Mendor began to walk toward them.  Taking this as a surrender of Initiative, I had the goblins look up and notice Mendor, look puzzled for a moment, then rush him, screaming and flinging javelins with their atl-atls.  It took my son a moment or two -- and a particularly vivid description of the blood lust in the goblins' eyes -- to really get the picture and decide to high-tail it for the cover of the jungle that lay at the head of the beach.

I was a little uncertain how to conduct a chase through the jungle at this point.  I figured that a small, professionally trained woodland ranger was probably about on equal footing with a small band of indiginous tribes-goblins, so I had them make a series of contested DEX rolls.  Mendor managed to put a little distance between himself and the gobbos, but made the mistake of trying to lay in ambush for them.  His Hide roll went poorly and this allowed the goblins to catch up with him, and the chase was on again.

This is where I intended to bring my geology background into the picture.  I had my son make a Reflex saving roll.  I forget who (was it jrients?), but someone here on theRPGsite recently said something to the effect of, "What you have to bear in mind about Saving Rolls is that the GM is telling you that you're already fucked -- the roll is simply to determine how badly you're fucked."  And that was the situation for Mendor.  The jungle undergrowth had obscured the opening of a small cenote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenote), and Mendor was gunning straight for it.  He missed his Reflex save and crashed right down into it, taking 1d6 HP from a 20-foot fall into a shallow pool of water.  I totally made this last bit up off the top of my head, mostly because, while I wanted him a little hurt, I didn't want him dead just yet.  As Mendor began to pick himself up and assess his situation, one of the goblins made the same mistake and came crashing down nearby.

As the other five goblins pulled up short and peered down into the depths, Mendor unshreathed one of his scimitars and my son rolled for Initiative.  Mendor won and went splashing through the shallow water to take a swing at the downed goblin.  I forgot that rangers get a +1 to hit gobbos, but I don't think it would have helped much -- he swung and he missed, giving the goblin a chance to get himself up and ready his weapon.  The next round of Initiative went went for the goblin, and he returned Mendor's favor, whiffing really poorly at Mendor with his club. My son then rolled a solid hit, opening up the goblin's belly (hey, he only had 2 HP), and the scene grew momentarily quiet as thick, red blood spread cloudlike through the milky green limewater of the cenote.  Of course, there wasn't much time for reflection as the outraged goblins at the top of the hole began to scream and find better vantage from which to hurl javelins down at Mendor.  The gnome sought the safety of the overhanging cave wall and found a tunnel that led away into the murky darkness...

And that's where we had to wrap it up for the evening.  I've since fallen ill with the flu, so we haven't been able to follow it up, but we're both itching to get back into it.  Here's a super-cool map (http://www.tamug.edu/cavebiology/Yucatan/images/KankirixcheMap.jpg) that I'm using for inspiration.  Let's hope Mendor makes his Swim rolls.  Eventually, if he stays down in the caverns, he's going to find his way into an old temple complex, then have to work his way out of there.

!i!

It looks like he has a great character rolled up. I myself find it more heart-warming that he actually rolled the dice as opposed to having them generated by software. I just like the hands-on approach. =)

I think it is a good sign that he has a vision of what he wants his character to become. A big difference between his previous free form experience and formal DnD is the structured progression of the characters. If he has such clear objectives I think he will find the whole levelling up process very satisfying. And like you said, 3rd edition did some good cleaning up on that score. Multi-classing is so simple and effective you wonder how they missed it for so long.

Will this be a solo campaign or will he have other players to group with?

Quote from: Michael MA big difference between his previous free form experience and formal DnD is the structured progression of the characters. If he has such clear objectives I think he will find the whole levelling up process very satisfying.

I think this is a big appeal for me.  Don't anyone take this the wrong way, but XPs and levelling up are great incentives for "object oriented" players.  Developing a rich personal history over the course of a campaign is great, but it's also nice to set your own reward schedule and get a cookie thrown to you on a regular basis. :)

QuoteWill this be a solo campaign or will he have other players to group with?

I mentioned in my (very dense) post above that I've built in plenty of opportunities for other players to sit in, and I've encouraged my son to invite his friends over if they want.  As long as their parents are cool with it (and I assume they must be since the other fellas on the bus own various D&D books), I think it'd be fun.

And brain damaging.

!i!

wow!

the session sounds fantastic. you made a lot of good calls in terms of the setting: throwing the player into immediate danger with little or no supplies makes for some good conflict.

i think this example of play really demonstrates how failure in action really adds tension and interest to a game. it would be easy to think that giving a player lots of power and stuff would get their interest, but it is usually the opposite. players are captivated by the troubles that are stacked against them as they wonder how they might get out of it.

can't wait to see how things turn out. =)

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaOn the bus, he's buying white dragon eggs, semi-automatic crossbows, laser swords, what-have-you.

...

...

...I wanna play that game.

RE: The Actual Play

Dude, that's awesome. Sincerely.  Keep posting, yo.

Oh, and I love that map of the cenote, and will copy it to my home macheen when I get home (IF the DNS works there, which it didn't this morning).  I especially like the little symbol which either means "No Bootleg Batman Toys" or "Do Not Drink Bacardi Before You Go In Here, Ese".  That and it says "Leyend" instead of "Legend" and that makes me hungry for some tacos.

Why?

...

...because I love tacos.

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!...

...

...I wanna play that game.

Oh, did I say that was a game?  No, he's really buying that shit and trying to bring it in the house.

!i!

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I especially like the little symbol which either means "No Bootleg Batman Toys" or "Do Not Drink Bacardi Before You Go In Here, Ese".

Have you seen some of those Mexican bootleg Batman toys?  Egads!  Small wonder they felt it necessary to issue the warning.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaHave you seen some of those Mexican bootleg Batman toys?  Egads!  Small wonder they felt it necessary to issue the warning.

!i!

Dude, I lived in Mexico.  So...Yes.  And yes.

I love the notion of an adventurer being chased into a dungeon.  It just lends itself so well to a denouement scene:  after defeating the (much nastier) critters inside the dungeon, Mendor can drag himself out of the cenote to find those five goblins lying in wait for him ... and utterly destroy them like the inconsequential gnats they are compared to his now much-greater buffitude.

I know it's been a while, but any further updates on this, Ian? I'm thoroughly enjoying it so far, the long buried 8-year-old in me is a little envious that he didn't have such a cool gaming Dad. :D

So... where'd the story go?  It's been a few months, and I'm really excited to hear what happened to Mendor, as well as the clever decisions you and your son will make.

It blows my mind that he's only seven, even with the limited play you've posted.  I've been gaming for thirteen years, and I don't think my 11 yearold self could have thought so wisely. (Or even my 24 yearold self. ;) )

I was thinking of returning to this thread just last week, because we've revived the advanture after losing track of the game for a few months.  Also, my daughter has joined the game after rolling up a halfling sorceress.  I mentioned a bit of the renewed adventure in a thread on Open last week.

Returning to Mendor's struggles in the cenote, he had to stay away from the open sinkholes for fear of the javelin hurling goblins who held the day above.  Retreating through a passageway that the water had carved in the limestone, and following it downstream (eventually back to the coastline, he figured), five kobolds struggling and bickering over a large sack.

My son's gnome ranger got to take advantage of two character features.  First, the gnome's +1 attack bonus against kobolds, and second, his +2 damage bonus against favored enemies (reptilian humanoids). He managed to kill four of them unscathed, with two natural criticals (hooray for the improved critical on the scimitar!), but the fifth got away.

At this point, my daughter entered the room and decided she wanted to play with the character she had rolled up previously, Hazel.  Taking advantage of the situation, I declared that inside the sack was the halfling sorceress. The two of them worked on getting out of one of the sinkholes by means of a rather ingenious use of Animate Rope, a plan that should have worked, but I had other plans that took prececedence. Before they could start climbing out, the surviving kobold from the first encounter brought back reinforcements for better than 4-to-1 odds. A firefight of magic missiles vs. light crossbows ensued (my daughter was very pleased by the sure-fire efficacy of the magic missile), while the gnome charged his opponents, killing three of them face-to-face and one attempting to flee. Over all, two kobolds got away, probably likely to raise the hue and cry among the entire kobold community.

So, that's where I left them last, each picking up a light crossbow and bolts, and rifling the corpses for loose change.  But kobolds are cunning, if not smart or brave. This lot fell prey to their instinctual hatred of the gnome at first sight, and figured they had easy odds against him.  They're through with face-downs that leave them slaughtered. It's time for some traps and ambushes, which ought to prove interesting to the two kids.  Also, as has been suggested, giant insects are good for pumping up early XP totals with a fair modicum of safety.  And besides, the kids are bound to find them super creepy.

!i!

(P.S. For those keeping track, my son is now 8, and my daughter 6.)

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI was thinking of returning to this thread just last week, because we've revived the advanture after losing track of the game for a few months. Also, my daughter has joined the game after rolling up a halfling sorceress. I mentioned a bit of the renewed adventure in a thread on Open last week.

I loved your HQ AP, and this simply rocks. Please, keep'em coming :) I find them great.

One of the weird things about a child's perspective is that, while the HeroQuest campaign we ran a few years ago remains vivid in my memory, my son hardly remembers it at all.  I think he'll remember this, though.

!i!

I still remember my first D&D campaign (that I wasn't running myself, anyway) vividly.  There's something about a DM that has a good idea of where they're going, and an ability to work on the fly.

Keep the updates coming. :)  Also, I'm excited that there's an interest in D&D so young.  I have a 2 yearold, and so do a few of my gaming friends (3 kids total)... in a few years, we should have a good game going that'll allow us older geeks to get our fix, while letting us hang out with our families.

My daughter's only 3, but she's as into Doctor Who and Star Wars as she is into Barbie and Disney princesses.  She has favorite episodes of the D&D cartoon, and she can spot Spider-Man at 100 paces.  So we're on track to have some hardcore nerd fun for a few years yet.

I'm hoping to get in some gaming with her before she hits 12.  She has her own set of dice (bubblegum pink!) and everything.

Then, boys will happen, and goodness knows what else...

Quote from: Dr Rotwang!I'm hoping to get in some gaming with her before she hits 12.  She has her own set of dice (bubblegum pink!) and everything.

My daughter's dice are the pink side of mauve.

!i!

Hey, Ian.  Two weeks.  Any updates?  I loved this thread...

Bump!

Sadly, no.  Between a heavy workload, a chess tournament, and parent-teacher conferences, the campaign has been on hold.  I'm thinking along the lines of a super-toned-down version of the Queen of the Demonweb Pits, involving a mess of GFSs (thank you) and a mis-placed drider sorceress.

!i!

Golly that sounds fun! I used to GM kids of that age whenever the extended family got together for Christmas. One trick I used to really rope em in, was to let them fall through a floor, and then let the impact break the next floor down etc.... It gives the impression of depth much better than a single long fall with water at the bottom. And if you give em vines to grab at, they can swing away into different sections so they have to work to stay together. (It makes it easier to keep the kids in a group if they have to work for it.)

After an unintentionally long hiatus following the New Year (during which we'd played Heroscape, if anything), we got back to the adventure Saturday night.  Things did not proceed well.  The problem?  Preparation, or lack thereof.

The situation was pretty simple.  Having offed a mess of kobolds, Mendor the gnome ranger and Hazel the halfling sorceress, still stuck in the cenotes, headed up-stream until they found a dry tunnel instead of the stream of milky green water.  I made a point of describing just how utterly caked the two were with greenish-white mud and feeling on the edge of exhaustion in the near-darkness of the caverns.  They emerged in a larger, mostly dry cavern, filled with stalactites and stalagmites that seemed to have formed over the penetrating roots of trees overhead, and...light!  Just a little, but pallid beams of light filtering in through the back of the cave.

Unfortunately, there were spiders, too.

Here is where my problems began to mount.  I hadn't reviewed the rules before play, and I couldn't figure out off the cuff how to resolve a surprise check.  Dad goes rifling through the books while son and daughter twiddle their thumbs a little.  I came up with a quick houserule based on a Reflex Save just to keep things moving, but then I got wrapped around the axle on what number to save against.  More tedium, though only briefly.

Okay, so the action got going, but the spiders (just small ones, 1d8 HP) got the drop on Mendor and Hazel and started taking them apart.  Rolls to hit the spiders were whiffed, rolls for the spiders to hit the adventurers went too well, rolls to save vs. Poison went poorly...ugh.

Oh, yes, poison.  I had to flip back and forth between three fucking books to cobble together a simple ruling on how to resolve a Fortitude Save versus poison.  More tedium for the players.  My daughter began to complain that she didn't want to deal with the terror of poison, and my son began to rest his forehead on the table and pretend to snore.  I started losing my top a little, and my wife chose that moment to make an inopportune critique of my parenting style.  The game ground to a halt for the evening.  As a result of not having prepared ahead of time for the special attacks available to a certain type of monster, the game went poorly and everyone had a rotten time.

Tears were shed.

Okay, so on Sunday, I had a frank talk with my kids, apologised for losing my cool, and confessing that I went into the session with insufficient preparation.  I had since figured out how to resolve surprise and poison, and I was eager to finish up the encounter.

We got back into it, Mendor and Hazel managed to squick five small monstrous spiders, and proceed toward the possible exit.  That's when I dropped the medium monstrous spider on them.  Hazel's Magic Missiles were all depleted by then, but that's when she figured out just how absolutely handy she was with a light crossbow.  Mendor didn't fare so well, got bitten up and poisoned pretty badly, half-wrapped in spider silk, and dropped to 0 HP.  Still, Hazel finished off the spider herself and saved her companion.  They were intensely relieved, but desperate to get out of the caverns.  As Hazel used an Animate Rope spell to get herself and Mendor's semi-conscious body out of the hole, they noticed a skeleton hanging in the spiderwebs -- a large crocodilian humanoid with what appeared to be glittering jewelry showing among the webs.  They were simply too desperate to get free, though.

Hobbling through the jungle, sick with spider venom, and the gnome half-draped over the halfling's shoulder, they were eventually discovered by a hunting party of lizardfolk.  Mendor, who happens to know Draconic, was barely able to mutter a polite surrender, and the two were tied up and brought back to the lizardfolk village as the evening fell.  The village was a series of platform huts built on stilts amid the mire of a swamp, with causeways connecting one platform to another in a veritable maze.

They were thrown down before the wizened village elder, resplendent in bright feathers, jaguar skins, and gold jewelry, who demanded to know how they came to the forest of the Day-Lizard tribe.  The tale of the pirate slavers didn't carry much weight, nor did the encounter with the goblins, though the story of killing off kobolds -- the Night-Lizard tribe, it seemed -- was received somewhat better.  Still, the village elder declared that they would be either sacrificed or eaten, or both, come morning's light.  My son was rather clever to point out that both Mendor and Hazel were sick with spider venom and wouldn't taste very good, but my daughter made the connection between the elder lizard's jewelry and the lizard-like skeleton in the cavern.  Mendor quickly explained that they saw what was probably the remains of one of the Day -Lizard tribe stuck in the spider webs, and they could show them where it was if they could be nursed to health.  The old lizard grunted at this suggestion, but agreed to the wisdom of it, and decreed that Hazel and Mendor be cleaned and cared for.

Everyone was satisfied with the resolution I came up with at this point, and we called it an evening.  One thing that is becoming plain is that Mendor and Hazel need someone with some healing ability, even just a little.  Mendor won't get a Cure Light Wounds spell until at least 8th Level, and sorcerers can't build a work-around until much higher levels.  On the bright side of things, after the spiders, which was a totally overwhelming encounter in retrospect, Mendor is 50 XP away from leveling up, and Hazel only about 225 XP.  I think they're very much looking forward to this.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAfter an unintentionally long hiatus following the New Year (during which we'd played Heroscape, if anything), we got back to the adventure Saturday night.  Things did not proceed well.  The problem?  Preparation, or lack thereof.
!i!

You know I thoroughly am glad you've persevered with this for your kids. I occasionally run my nephew and niece on T&T because of its simplicity for the very reason that I don't often know when they'll visit much in advance. (Or I run H&S but that goes without saying.) I tend to stick with simpler games because frankly I like to be able to run smoothly without book flipping even if I've not run them in a while. Yet there is something interesting that "D&D" brings to the table in terms of resources allotment, and the like.


As for healing you might slip in a small magical item for their use--perhaps the the Lizard men offer them something in the next adventure? (I'm not sure what, Rings of Regeneration, or perhaps just a Rod of Healing--lets you cast Cure Light Wounds 3x a day or something)

I have to admit, I've been tempted to switch the game to something simple like Tunnels & Trolls, or even RuneQuest (which I could GM in a coma, I'm so familiar with it), but my son prefers the idea of playing real D&D.  And, I also have to admit, that part of the appeal is the reward system -- he's totally jazzed about leveling up.

Also, yes, I was skimming through the magic item choices in the back of the DMG last night.  A Wand of CLW might do the trick nicely.  There'll be plenty of opportunities to find such a thing if they go back into the spider cavern with the help of some of the lizardfolk warriors -- the skeleton is that of the village elder's lost son, for which rewards may be in order.  Also, that big spider was just the tip of the iceberg in that cavern.  Other victims with other treasures may be found among the webs and the muck...as well as the real menace behind the spiderwebs.  Any accompanying lizardfolk warriors are going to be totally red-shirted. :hehe:

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI have to admit, I've been tempted to switch the game to something simple like Tunnels & Trolls, or even RuneQuest (which I could GM in a coma, I'm so familiar with it), but my son prefers the idea of playing real D&D.  And, I also have to admit, that part of the appeal is the reward system -- he's totally jazzed about leveling up.

Also, yes, I was skimming through the magic item choices in the back of the DMG last night.  A Wand of CLW might do the trick nicely.  There'll be plenty of opportunities to find such a thing if they go back into the spider cavern with the help of some of the lizardfolk warriors -- the skeleton is that of the village elder's lost son, for which rewards may be in order.  Also, that big spider was just the tip of the iceberg in that cavern.  Other victims with other treasures may be found among the webs and the muck...as well as the real menace behind the spiderwebs.  Any accompanying lizardfolk warriors are going to be totally red-shirted. :hehe:

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A couple of things...

First, as usual...awesome.  My son just turned 7 last month and one of these days I'll be starting up.  Mind if I use your scenario? ;)

Second - Wand of CLW is a really good solution to the party without healer problem.  As long as one of them can use it, which is the case, it's a nice little source for when the going gets tough. maybe give them with only a few charges left instead of the full compliment.

Third - I'm curious is the last encounter, regardless of your horrible parenting skills ;) will make them more cautious/willing to run away in the future.  It seems they had limited choices in this case, but damn GFS are good for reminding people how bad things can turn out...

Fourth - don't let the flipping get you.

Quote from: James J SkachMy son just turned 7 last month and one of these days I'll be starting up.  Mind if I use your scenario? ;)

Not at all!  I like it for a number of reasons.  One, it starts the action right off with a bang.  Second, the situation allows for other characters to show up with no torturous explanation if more players want to join (more escaped slaves from the wrecked pirate ship).  Third, it conveniently provides replacement characters if necessary.  Fourth, with an impromptu base of operations now, they can start to explore and plunder the caverns, but still retreat to safety when they take too much of a beating.

QuoteWand of CLW is a really good solution to the party without healer problem.  As long as one of them can use it, which is the case, it's a nice little source for when the going gets tough.

[/i]It's a lot simpler than figuring out a way that a sorceress can cast a CLW, which I had begun to try to work out.  Besides, in the hands of a halfling, the wand will look like a staff.

QuoteI'm curious is the last encounter, regardless of your horrible parenting skills ;) will make them more cautious/willing to run away in the future.

Oh, they wanted to run away this time, but they were desperate to try to get out of the caverns.  I think they sensed the death-spiral beginning and were willing to just take the most direct path to freedom.

Quotedon't let the flipping get you.

You know, my main consolation was that I remembered RPG sessions turning out like this when I was much younger, with exhaustion or anxiety or lack of preparation lighting a powder-keg underneath a bunch of teenage boys.  Not every session goes right, and sometimes it takes some serious and honest reflection to set things back on track.

!i!

Interesting. I am not sure why you got bogged down in rules its not like the 7 year old is going to question that they were suprised by the hidden giant spider...

Personally I would not use a system at all for first games just wing the whole lot. I have introduced a roleplay element into my daughters games this way already. She gets to decide what she does when the she sees the witch on the roof of the cottage. This time she chose to blow her magic whistle which she knows scares witches away but then when the witch started calling down lightning bolts she decided to challenge her to a sword fight. She didn't have a sword though so I 'reminded' her there was one in the shed where they kept all the swords. Then in the fight the witch easily bested her (she is only 3 after all) but fortunately the lightning storm had worsened and as the witch lifted her blade skyward with both hands a bolt of lighting shot down and toasted her to a crisp, leaving nothing but a pair of smoking boots.

My cunning plan is to slowly turn the storytelling game into a proper game and introduce dice and stuff (maybe when she is 5 or so) but I won't introduce a formal system at all unless she pushes for one and of course by that point her mum will already have won and she will care more about shoes and boy than dragons and witches :-(

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaWords.

Welcome to a number of D&D's problems.  I'm glad you kept at it, though.

Quote from: jibbajibbaInteresting. I am not sure why you got bogged down in rules its not like the 7 year old is going to question that they were suprised by the hidden giant spider...

Well, first, he's 8 now, going on 9, and he's pretty interested in equity and his personal welfare and any number of things like that.  Second, I'm very interested in teaching them the actual game.  We've done much more free-form roleplaying before (as do he and his mates on the school bus), but this is our first attempt to really learn a specific system.  Third, sometimes, in spite of better judgement, you just get wrapped around the axle on needless details.

You're probably right with regard to the surprise roll -- I should have just hand-waved a surprise on them.  But the matter of the poisoned spider bites was a much more integral bookkeeping issue of D&D, like hit points.  And another matter regarding hand-waving rules -- one that comes up on this site fairly often -- is that players may not mind a GM fudging or hand-waving this or that, as long as it's consistent.  The best way to be consistent with your players is to know the rules well enough to approximate them as closely as possible when in a pinch.

All that said, it still really boils down to preparation.  I let myself feel on the spot and uncertain, and the mood of the game was swayed heavily by that.  The follow-up session went much more smoothly and positively with only a little prep work.

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Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAll that said, it still really boils down to preparation.  I let myself feel on the spot and uncertain, and the mood of the game was swayed heavily by that.  The follow-up session went much more smoothly and positively with only a little prep work.

!i!

Yeah, hand waving is easy but it is better to do so from a consistent point/starting off place. I try and run my nephew and niece "strictly" by the rules because they learn the rules better that way, and may want to run their own games someday--it is better to start off with a solid core for them to utilize because they don't yet  have the maturity to accept some things without good cause and move on--that's because they're kids :D