The way I'm thinking of the Hill Elves is conditioned by three main things, and I'm developing their culture to match with these considerations.

1) The Hill Elf culture was once more advanced than contemporary Kadiz culture is.

2) It has now regressed to a more primitive state due to civilisational collapse.

3) The Hill Elves and the Kadiz are competing cultures vying for control of the plains.

Hill Elves don't have horses because the ancestors of the Kaddish domesticated the horse. Other groups - the Salt Men, the Kingdom of the Falling Stars, the Land Across the Desert, may or may not have horses. They may have other domesticated animals (dogs are a good idea), and they may do a limited amount of farming.

Generally though, the Hill Elves live on the margins. Because their civilisation is falling apart, they have become opportunistic: Scavenging, farming, herding and yes, eating sentients - whatever it takes to survive. Life as a Hill Elf is a bit like living in a post-apocalyptic wasteland where the murderous mutant cults are horse-riding humans. The Hill Elves who wanted to cooperate with the humans to share resources have become part of the Kadiz, leaving a hard, desperate core of refuseniks, idealists and xenophobes. I could see them eating other elves just as easily as they eat humans or dwarves. They probably wouldn't eat other Hill Elves though, whether that Hill Elf is a human, an elf or something else.

One thing to keep in mind is that tribal cultures grow more aggressive when pressed for resources, not less.

This serves two purposes.

If successful, the tribe gains new resources, even if only limited amounts.

Regardless of success or failure, violence leads to a loss of population, once the population has dropped back to sustainable levels the violence stops.

While we could point out the foolishness of such a peoples taking wives of much more fertile tribes (humans), that would imply they actually think of these things.  In reality, the demand for more sons to survive the violence and scarcity still drive populations up... which then leads right back to the violence.

I'm going to start drawing up some maps and things and getting them scanned in, I think.

The FATE mod:

OK, so I've got a second group starting up and rather than run two settings, I'm planning to just use the Dawnlands for it. But, the Dawnlands are built for D&D 4e, whereas this group is going to be using FATE, so I'll be doing some conversions etc.

Has anyone done this before? Run the same setting under two different systems at the same time?

I never ended up modding it to FATE, so forget about that.

Religions in the Dawnlands:

Common Elements to Religion:

1) Nowhere are clerics or paladins well-established members of the priesthood. Clerics and paladins are the sacred men of the daimons, and have nothing to do with ordinary ritual and belief. It is uncommon for a cleric or paladin to be a priest. Wizards are the most common kind of priest.

2) Religion is fragmented, arbitrary, incoherent. Many cults, many septs, many cosmologies and cosmogonies. No one follows "a god" or "a religion" exclusively. Temples and churches are partisan, powerful, and quarrelsome.

3) Religion is a matter of rite and behaviour, not conscience or faith. With a few exceptions, religions are concerned with the proper performance of rites and festivals, not with the private beliefs of their members. The King of Dwer Tor may claim the gods if he so wishes, so long as he is still willing to burn the Rice Man at the harvest festival.

4) Churches and temples are found only in cities. Shrines are more common in the outlands.

Dwer Tor:

Dwer Tor's civic religion is administered by the thaumates, whose collegia, ecclesia and sodalities are paid by the state to propitiate the necessary spirits. The Hard-Faced Mother, the mountain Dwer Tor is built on (all mountains are female to the Dwer), is the civic spirit whose gushing placental waters form the lakes and rivers that flow out from the city. Grand festivals are thrown in her honour, with great parades of optimates marching down the street throwing handfuls of rice from their palanquins to the lower orders.

A crowd of lesser gods and spirits are also venerated, with enough temples and shrines, parks and statues, to please any god. Dwer Tor is quite open to priests of new religions - so long as they're rich - and welcomes even the less radical Kaddish beliefs.

The Dwer believe that the falling stars common to the Dawnlands are souls returning from the afterlife to earth. This belief came with the Eladrin, but has since found widespread belief throughout the Dawnlands. Only the most powerful and clever souls can return, since the rest are lost on the eternal plains of the sky, wandering in circles in the dark, or blinded by the sun during the day. These star-spirits are offered burnt sacrifices of plants and fragrant incense so that the smell of the smoke can guide them home. Each falling star is a returning hero of great power, who must be placated by thaumate rites, lest he become a great and wicked villain. Children born when comets, meteors and the like are in the sky are commonly held to be guided by the hero's spirit, if they are not thought outright to be his reincarnation.

Kadiz:

The Kadiz religion is the Hill Elf religion, which is identical with the religion of the old Dawnmen, though Kaddish has not held to it for hundreds of years. In the sky, the celestial kine roam freely, their eyes shining in the night. In the ground, the wolves of the earth prowl and lurk in the dark below men. A star falls whenever the wolves see a weak bull or cow and drag it down to the earth to devour her. The celestial herd must be constantly replenished with burnt sacrifice, lest it run thin and the wolves of the earth come after the Kadiz. The wolves can also be mollified by sending their lesser brothers to them, and wolf-graves are common around any Kadiz settlement. The Kadiz also bury their dead so that the wolves will eat the corpses and leave the living alone.

Priests are of two types, the priests of the earth and the priests of the sky. Priests of the earth wear wolfskin and are the doom-prophets and geomancers, responsible for rites of the wolves. They punish criminal malfeasance. Priests of the sky wear cured leather and are the astrologers and timekeepers. They are also responsible for allotting the clan's common resources and settling disputes of wealth and ownership. Priesthood is a rank one holds in addition to other responsibilities - there are no people who are "just" priests.

Kaddish:

The Kaddish have dozen of competing cults, all of them powerful, all of them with conflicting beliefs, and dozens of rites. The churches do not have a unified calendar, nor unified festivals. As a result, some part of the city is always celebrating. Religions are tied to specific power blocs in the city through complicated networks of patronage. There is also a folk religion outside of the temples which most Kaddish practice.

Kaddish folk religion holds that children ought to be washed in the Birth River, and the dead washed in the Death River, from which these two rivers get their names.

Next:

The Knowing, and Daimons.

Religion, cont.:

The Knowing is a religion insofar as it has a cosmology, a set of principles about how the world works, rituals that practitioners perform, and a meditative practice. It is the knowledge of how the principles of arcane magic work and why they do, and to be a follower of the Knowing is to be a wizard (as in the class). Followers are known as "gnostics", with "wizard" in-character being a professional title for a gnostic who is employed by someone else to use his arts. It is wholly compatible with the practice of other religions; many gnostics are also priests in their local cults.

Broadly speaking, there are three main traditions of the Knowing, each characterised by the character and style of its rituals. Members of each tradition recognise one another's knowledge as legitimate, but the styles of ritual are different. The mightiest gnostics may learn all three traditions, but most gnostics do not.

The Logokratonic Gnostics are the dominant tradition amongst the thaumates of Dwer Tor. Their rituals involve a great of calligraphic writing, runic inscription, and incanting. Through the sacred power of words they command the world to conform to their will. Their rituals require fine inks and delicate parchment, precious gems and other substances to inscribe, and precise carving tools. This method came north with the Eladrin when they fled the Kingdom of the Fallen Stars.

The Psychomimetic Gnostics rule in Kaddish. Their rituals involve constructing incredibly detailed mental images of their effects and letting their will reconcile the image with the world. To accomplish this, their rituals involve the presentation of objects with elaborate correspondences to the outcome they wish to create - special incenses, certain icons, symbols and pictures, musical pieces of esoteric power, meditative sutras and mandalas. This is the magic of the Dawnmen and their heirs.

The Sarxian Gnostics are found amongst the hobgoblins, and form one of the few points of cultural contact between man and goblin. They also known as the Monstrous Gnostics, as a derogatory term. Their rituals rely on the arcane power of the world itself, drawing energy from sacred and potent substances, including the blood and organs of living creatures, to change the form of the world in conformance with their will. This is actually the most widespread form of magic outside of the cities, having passed from one monstrous race to another. Even the Hill Elves practice Sarxian magic.

House Rule:

All rituals in the Dawnlands have an associated tradition. A wizard who casts a ritual from his own tradition may do so normally. When he casts a ritual from a tradition other than his own, he does not count as trained in the correct skill for the ritual. So if a Sarxian ritual required Arcana and a Psychomimetic gnostic tried to cast it, he would not get the +5 bonus he normally gets for being trained in Arcana to the skill roll. A character knows one tradition for each tier he has passed - a heroic character knows one tradition, a paragon knows two traditions, and an epic gnostic knows all three.

Daimons:

No one really knows what daimons are. A much longer list could be drawn of all the things they are not: Gods, exarchs, demons, elementals, fey, the spirits of the formless monsters from the sky, mortals. Daimons come from the Astral Sea and bind themselves to chosen mortals, granting them powers and knowledge to further the daimon's agenda.

What is known:

There are many, many daimons. Each cleric or paladin has their own daimon, who grants only them power so long as they live. They do not appear capable of granting powers to more than one person at any given time.

Daimons appear in signs, symbols, dreams, omens, portents, and even may speak directly to their agents. They are of protean form, able to take any shape they wish.

Daimons do not care about being worshipped, and never pretend to be anything other than a daimon.

Once granted, the powers the daimon grants cannot be retracted, but a cleric or paladin who ignores their daimon's demands may not gain further in power unless the daimon lets them.

Daimons have many different agendas, some good, some ill. These agendas are action-oriented, almost never demanding that a cleric or paladin believe or disbelieve some article of faith: A monster must be slain, a ritual must be performed, six coins of special manufacture must be transported across the plains of Kadiz and then buried at a holy site.

Daimons appear to their future agents in visions and offer great power and knowledge in exchange for service. No one is sure what prompts a daimon to select a particular agent over any other person, except for basic sorts of suitability - a willingness to accept the offer of power and a likelihood of following the daimon's agenda.

A person who has accepted the daimon's offer gains access to the divine power source. All divine powers in the Dawnlands come from daimons, never from gods. Amongst the Kadiz, this person is now a shaman, and is cast out of the ordinary structures of clan and family to become a sacred wanderer. While honoured from afar, they hold no rank amongst the nomads. In the cities, they are called "sanctified" and similarly exiled from their previous social position so as not to anger the daimon by preventing its holy vessel from pursuing its agenda. The civilised monsters (the hobgoblins, the Hill Elves, halflings, etc.) also exile those who have sworn to obey daimons. It is considered bad luck to harm one, but this can be scant protection when surrounded by starving Hill Elf cannibals.

Ah... it has returned....

Interesting starting point on religions. I found it easier to devise a religious system where metaphysical elements were REAL (most fantasy...) by devising the metaphysical underpinnings of the world in question first... as these are things that most religions deal with in one way or another.

That aside, as you've evidentally given it at least some thought, what I missed most from your religions were answers to spiritual questions.  Religions primarily seem to exist to explain mysteries, and the biggest one of all is Death. Aside from a single funerary rite, an a single vague mention of reincarnation, I saw very little.

Insofar as I am aware, no real world religion (caveat: Confusionism is considered a religion due to its cultural significance, yet lacks religious trappings...) does not include a spiritual aspect, that is to say what happens when one dies. Potentially, also, where on comes from to be born.  The origin of Man, the World, the nature of the Seasons... all these things tend to be dealt with at great length in a culture's religion, followed after by lesser mythology and cultural laws and rules, from whence the traditions and taboos of a people spring forth.

I find it particularly odd that you seem to suggest that the Kadish tribes abandoned their religion entirely in the short span of time they've been exiles and, rather than simply adopting the religion of the Hill Elves... either through synthesis of their own beliefs, or in place of them, have instead adopted entirely new rites and traditions unique to themselves (the Birth and Death Rivers, while cool, seem oddly out of place in a very new culture as presented. There needs to be more background, traditions evolve over very long periods...the bigger the tradition, the longer it takes to be adopted...)

Quote from: SpikeAh... it has returned....

Interesting starting point on religions. I found it easier to devise a religious system where metaphysical elements were REAL (most fantasy...) by devising the metaphysical underpinnings of the world in question first... as these are things that most religions deal with in one way or another.

That aside, as you've evidentally given it at least some thought, what I missed most from your religions were answers to spiritual questions.  Religions primarily seem to exist to explain mysteries, and the biggest one of all is Death. Aside from a single funerary rite, an a single vague mention of reincarnation, I saw very little.

Insofar as I am aware, no real world religion (caveat: Confusionism is considered a religion due to its cultural significance, yet lacks religious trappings...) does not include a spiritual aspect, that is to say what happens when one dies. Potentially, also, where on comes from to be born.  The origin of Man, the World, the nature of the Seasons... all these things tend to be dealt with at great length in a culture's religion, followed after by lesser mythology and cultural laws and rules, from whence the traditions and taboos of a people spring forth.

You're thinking of monotheism here when you're stating these features of religions. The religions I'm working with here are intended to be more like pagan cultic worship in the classical world. All that other stuff - cosmology, metaphysics, social taboos, what happens after death etc. are features of culture, not of cultic devotion. The cults exist to propitiate the gods and spirits through the performance of rites.

As a friend of mine pointed out last night, "religion" is actually not a very good word for this sort of thing, since we think of it as including the features you outlined, but I'd already written it out by that point. The "religions" here are more like the real-world Greco-Roman "religions" than Christianity, and are intentionally impoverished in comparison to monotheism's all-encompassing system.

QuoteI find it particularly odd that you seem to suggest that the Kadish tribes abandoned their religion entirely in the short span of time they've been exiles and, rather than simply adopting the religion of the Hill Elves... either through synthesis of their own beliefs, or in place of them, have instead adopted entirely new rites and traditions unique to themselves (the Birth and Death Rivers, while cool, seem oddly out of place in a very new culture as presented. There needs to be more background, traditions evolve over very long periods...the bigger the tradition, the longer it takes to be adopted...)

I think there may be a misunderstanding here.

The Kadiz (the nomads) reverted to their old religion / cultic practices, which is the same religion / set of cultic practices as the Hill Elves, broadly speaking. The two groups are interested in asking favours and making demands of the same sorts of entities, and do so in fairly similar ways.

The Kaddish (the city-people), on the other hand, have their folk religion / cultic practices, and their cults / institutionalised cultic practices. The Birth and Death River stuff is the Kaddish tradition, not the Kadiz.

So, for example, the reason Dwer Tor's entry is the only one that mentions reincarnation is because they are the only ones who think they need to buy the favour of the souls of dead heroes - a cultic practice. Why do they believe they need to do this? Because they have the cosmological (not religious) belief that falling stars are the returning souls of heroes.

Places to Go, Things to Kill:

The Maruk Bastion

Jutting from the Bleeding Mountain is the Maruk Bastion, the greatest fortress hobgoblins have ever built. Great slave plantations stretch for kilometres around it to feed the growing population, who are sent by their king, Maruk-Who-Masters-All, on constant raids to feed the insatiable demand for farm slaves. Few escape the shadow of that basalt tower.

House rule I came up with in another thread:

Certain places and times are particularly potent for an energy source. Anyone who draws on the correct power source while in it is able to use one of their powers (utility, encounter or daily, depending on the potency of the site) twice without needing to wait.

Certain places and times are also particularly deficient in one or more powers. Anyone who draws on the impeded power source finds it harder to use their abilities. Encounter powers become daily powers, and one less daily power than usual can be used. Even if a character leaves the zone after using an encounter power that's been impeded, it takes a day for them to recover the energy necessary to use it again.

Places to Go, People to Kill:

The Star-Heralds

The Star-Heralds are a group of star-pact warlocks who wander the Dawnlands. Astrologers, haruspices and scribes of the book of fate, they offer their services to the highest bidder. For one price, they can read your future; for another, they can make you a new one. It is said they are trained in a great steel-lined pit in the western jungles, though no one but the Star-Heralds knows its location.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineHouse rule I came up with in another thread:

Certain places and times are particularly potent for an energy source. Anyone who draws on the correct power source while in it is able to use one of their powers (utility, encounter or daily, depending on the potency of the site) twice without needing to wait.

Certain places and times are also particularly deficient in one or more powers. Anyone who draws on the impeded power source finds it harder to use their abilities. Encounter powers become daily powers, and one less daily power than usual can be used. Even if a character leaves the zone after using an encounter power that's been impeded, it takes a day for them to recover the energy necessary to use it again.

It's a good idea, but at-will implementation seems odd. The thing preventing a character from using at-will abilities is usually a limit on the number of actions per round more than anything.

I'd go with letting each character with a given power source recharge one of their powers once per day. So you'd have lesser and greater power source areas. Lesser would let you recharge an encounter power once per day. Greater would let you recharge a daily power once per day.

Or you could go numerous shades of gray by just giving bonuses on attack rolls, damage, or duration for a given power source.

Quote from: PseudoephedrineYou're thinking of monotheism here when you're stating these features of religions. The religions I'm working with here are intended to be more like pagan cultic worship in the classical world. All that other stuff - cosmology, metaphysics, social taboos, what happens after death etc. are features of culture, not of cultic devotion. The cults exist to propitiate the gods and spirits through the performance of rites.
.

Indeed the exact opposite.  In fact, I first heard that quality regarding religions  from a Japanese woman talking about asian cultures with regards to Bhuddism, Shintoism (notable for being one of the oldest living religions, primative and animistic) and... of course, Confusionism, which I mentioned earlier.

The Earliest myths we have regale us with tales of how the world and the Gods came to be, discuss where man came from in most cases, and in a few  cases (this being the exception rather than the rule) how the world will end.

The Olympians had Hades to send their souls to. Warriors got Valhalla in the north.  Should we discuss Babylonian myth? Is THAT going to be old enough to satisfy you that this is a characteristic of all religions? Maybe I should mention that the Etruscan Death God is one of the few we have any knowledge of.

How ancient do you want me to go?  Hittite? I've got a book or two on the subject.

What about Aztecs? They thought the Gods needed blood to keep the universe spinning. What about the Egyptians with their eight Souls and elaborate tombs to ensure a good afterlife?

This is the primary purpose of faith: To answer the unanswerable question of 'what happens after?'.

NOT a christian invention at all.


If that STILL ain't ancient enough for you, I got a 200,000 year old fertility statue that should trump anything you care to bring to the table.