Hi everyone! I've been interested in Microlite20 for a while. As many of you know, it's a rules-lite version of the d20 basic system published under the OGL by Robin Stacey. There are a couple of variants out there, including one based on OD&D called Microlite74. I thought I'd throw my hat into the ring and make a Microlite20 version that incorporated some of my favourite elements of various d20 Heartbreakers like Iron Heroes while retaining the mechanical simplicity of Microlite20.

Thus: Microlite Iron Heartbreakers. I've rewritten the entire text of Microlite20 for clarity and made a few changes. Classes are all various fighting styles, Armour grants DR, and I added some rules for drowning. I've uploaded a free copy of Microlite Iron Heartbreakers to this post, and I'd love very much for anyone who's interested to give it a try and tell me what they think.

Thanks,

John B aka Pseudoephedrine

Edit: Deleted the attachment to avoid clogging the forums up.

Neat, I'll take a look at it and see if it works for me and my group.

Here's the spell list btw.

Thanks Silverlion! Let me know how it goes.

Edit: Deleted the attachment to avoid clogging the forums up.

(disappointed sigh)

My search for the perfect system to do 'Twilight' except with robots instead of vampires continues.

It's always good to see another M20 variant. I've just read through your rules and have the following questions and comments:

Question: Does STR, DEX, MIND always refer to the attribute bonus instead the actual attribute?  There are some places where you refer to something like "STR bonus" and other places where you just use STR.  Given that STR, DEX, and MIND are commonly used to refer to the attributes, you might want to use STR bonus, DEX bonus, and MIND Bonus to refer to the bonuses -- or define and use new names (many people seem to use STRb, DEXb, and MINDb) to refer to the bonuses.

Comment:  I assume characters/monsters cannot gain hit points from being hit. The RAW seem to imply that they could. Rule: "Opponents roll their Damage Resistance for their armour. They subtract their roll from your damage, and lose the difference in HP."  A character with plate armor is hit for 6 points of damage, the character rolls an 11 on his 2d6+1 plate armor roll, subtracting 6 from 11 gives -5. Losing -5 from HPs would increase their HP by +5.  While I doubt this is what is meant, according to a strict reading of the RAW, this is what happens.

Comment: In most Microlite games, HPs used for spell casting cannot be healed with magic.  This prevents casters from turning into near infinite casting machines as the cost of magical healing is less than what can be gained from it.  I don't see this rule in your game. Is this intentional?  (also: Can reserve points be used to heal HP used to cast spells.)

Question: How does non-magic healing work?  That is, when (and how fast) do characters regain reserve points and/or HP without magic?

Quote from: RandallS;319444It's always good to see another M20 variant. I've just read through your rules and have the following questions and comments:

Question: Does STR, DEX, MIND always refer to the attribute bonus instead the actual attribute?  There are some places where you refer to something like "STR bonus" and other places where you just use STR.  Given that STR, DEX, and MIND are commonly used to refer to the attributes, you might want to use STR bonus, DEX bonus, and MIND Bonus to refer to the bonuses -- or define and use new names (many people seem to use STRb, DEXb, and MINDb) to refer to the bonuses.

I always use it to refer to the bonus. My reasoning is that your actual stats only come into play on a handful of occasions, while your bonus is almost always used. If that's confusing though, I'll change it around for clarity.

QuoteComment:  I assume characters/monsters cannot gain hit points from being hit. The RAW seem to imply that they could. Rule: "Opponents roll their Damage Resistance for their armour. They subtract their roll from your damage, and lose the difference in HP."  A character with plate armor is hit for 6 points of damage, the character rolls an 11 on his 2d6+1 plate armor roll, subtracting 6 from 11 gives -5. Losing -5 from HPs would increase their HP by +5.  While I doubt this is what is meant, according to a strict reading of the RAW, this is what happens.

Good eye. I'll rewrite that for clarity.

QuoteComment: In most Microlite games, HPs used for spell casting cannot be healed with magic.  This prevents casters from turning into near infinite casting machines as the cost of magical healing is less than what can be gained from it.  I don't see this rule in your game. Is this intentional?  (also: Can reserve points be used to heal HP used to cast spells.)

Reserve points can be used to heal up HP lost to spellcasting. I'm on the fence on caster's healing themselves. I want them to be able to do things like drain life out of their enemies to power their spells at high levels, but I agree the "infinite casting" thing is a problem. I'm still fiddling around a bit with the spell list to place healing appropriately, which is how I think I'll end up dealing with that.

QuoteQuestion: How does non-magic healing work?  That is, when (and how fast) do characters regain reserve points and/or HP without magic?

Character's reserve points refresh at the end of the day. Microlite20 doesn't have healing rules in its core document, but I'll write some up and insert them.

Thanks for all the commentary. It's really helpful.

Quote from: Age of Fable;319433(disappointed sigh)

My search for the perfect system to do 'Twilight' except with robots instead of vampires continues.

Don't worry, it's in the next supplement!

Here's an updated version that I hope addresses some of RandallS's concerns. Please let me know if it does, Randall!

Edit: Deleted the attachment to avoid clogging the forums up.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;319468I always use it to refer to the bonus. My reasoning is that your actual stats only come into play on a handful of occasions, while your bonus is almost always used. If that's confusing though, I'll change it around for clarity.

It confused me and I've been playing since 1975 and I even read the rules from start to finish.

QuoteReserve points can be used to heal up HP lost to spellcasting. I'm on the fence on caster's healing themselves. I want them to be able to do things like drain life out of their enemies to power their spells at high levels, but I agree the "infinite casting" thing is a problem. I'm still fiddling around a bit with the spell list to place healing appropriately, which is how I think I'll end up dealing with that.

Gotcha. I'll withhold further comment until I see where you put healing magic.

QuoteCharacter's reserve points refresh at the end of the day. Microlite20 doesn't have healing rules in its core document, but I'll write some up and insert them.

You might consider just having the reserve points refresh and make people use them to heal HP. If you do this, you might want to have healing magic affect reserve points too. Different, but very consistent.

In version 1.1 (the RandallS version ), you now heal your STR bonus in HP / day, and your STR bonus + level if you completely rest. This is a variation on a houserule we used for Iron Heroes, Arcana Unearthed and 3.x. I'm wondering if that's fast enough for people that I should just get rid of magical healing?

Here's an updated spell list with all but five healing spells removed. Three of those four heal all allies _except_ the caster. Regenerate doesn't actually heal HP but does regrow lost limbs and overcome permanent injuries. The last is Life Draining Aura, which heals the caster for a ton of HP but can nail their allies as well as friends, and has a short range (10m). It's also an 8th level spell.

OK, the other thing folks, is that I'm going to remove the older versions from my posts so I'm not filling the server up with near identical pdfs as I go through versions.

I've been thinking over RandallS' comments on magic, and I decided to simply scrap PC spellcasting entirely from the system, which also has the added benefit of simplifying and shortening the rest of MIH. I've also added an additional benefit to each race, gave additional bonuses to the Sneak and Tactician (the former now gets +DEX on sneak attacks, the latter can now wear medium armour). And you add your level to your Defense score / AC, something I forgot to do in the first place.

Anyhow, I expect I'm trying everyone's patience by constantly posting these variations, but this is the version I'm hoping to playtest in a couple of months, and I'm going to leave it alone after this until then. I've sent it out to a bunch of people I know, and I'll let you all know how it goes.

It's very neat. A niggle with the armours is that 1d2+1 averages precisely the same as 1d4; likewise, in this sense, 1d8+1 = 1d10, and 1d10+1 = 1d12. I think I recalled the correct dice. Anyway, I'm sure you get the gist. It might be worth adjusting them slightly.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;319657Anyhow, I expect I'm trying everyone's patience by constantly posting these variations, but this is the version I'm hoping to playtest in a couple of months, and I'm going to leave it alone after this until then. I've sent it out to a bunch of people I know, and I'll let you all know how it goes.

You aren't trying mine.  Comments on 1.2:

Comment: Are people so math challenged that something like

"A character's attribute bonus is calculated by the following formula: (Attribute – 10)/2. Round toward zero if a fraction results."

would not work? The attribute bonus description is one of the longest in the rules. This isn't a real problem, just an excuse for an old fogie like me to rant about math education today.

Question: What is the healing rate for damage to STR?

And finally, a reply to paris80' comment: "A niggle with the armours is that 1d2+1 averages precisely the same as 1d4..." While the average may be the same, 1d4 blocks either 1, 2, 3, or 4 points of damage while 1d2+1 blocks 2 or 3 points -- the effect on a per hit basis is different.

Quote from: RandallS;319674And finally, a reply to paris80' comment: "A niggle with the armours is that 1d2+1 averages precisely the same as 1d4..." While the average may be the same, 1d4 blocks either 1, 2, 3, or 4 points of damage while 1d2+1 blocks 2 or 3 points -- the effect on a per hit basis is different.

Yes, I know they're _different_. But they are also _equal_. Generally speaking, Studded Leather is supposed to be _better_ than Leather, and as things are currently set up, this is not the case.

So some armour types should still be adjusted, obviously.

Randalls> I'm not sure myself about the attribute modifier thing. I want it to be obvious to understand, so I may have overwritten it.


One thing I am thinking of changing is the armour types. I think there are too many types of armour right now, and I'd like the differences between them to be a little sharper. What I did was simply take the types of armour in the basic equipment list and give them all a die type.

Without releasing a totally new version yet, how does this look to you guys:

Armour Tables 1.3

Light Armour

Leather Overcoat 1d2
Studded Leather Jack 1d4

Medium Armour

Chain Hauberk 1d6
Scale Mail 1d8

Heavy Armour

Half-Plate 1d10
Plate Mail 2d6

Is that enough armour types, too few? Do you prefer this simple 6-armour system to the list currently in the rules?


The other thing I want to do is the weapon tables. Right now there are tons of very similar weapons. I want to cut down that down at little bit. I also want to make weapon damage a little deadlier. That makes armour much more appealing.

Light Weapons

Dagger 1d4 RNG 10m
Throwing Axe 1d6 RNG 5m
Short Sword 1d6
Rapier 1d6
Whip 1d4

One Handed Weapons

Arming Sword 1d8
Battle Axe 1d10
Bastard Sword 1d10
Mace / Club 1d6
Flail 1d8
Short Spear 1d6 RNG 10m
Morning Star 2d4
War Hammer 1d10

Two Handed Weapons

Great Axe 2d10
Greatsword 3d6
Halberd 2d8
Longspear 2d6
Maul 2d10

Ranged Weapons

Hunting Bow 1d8 RNG 50m
Long Bow 1d10 RNG 75m

Ranges don't matter much right here, so I've left them out. What do you guys think of the armour and weapon damage? Once again, thanks for all the help.