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Maztica, the re-working

Started by Opaopajr, July 02, 2015, 10:15:23 AM

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Opaopajr

So, I just finished reading Maztica from beginning to end (OK, I skimmed some parts, shhh!). And there's some things I want to do with it. Granted the author has an admitted point of view, and the tropes play painfully unfavorably as old knowledge about Mesoamerica and its Colombian conquest. But without apocalyptic disease on the same scale I can easily deal with even post-conquest Maztica.

First, I just love the awesome pyramid cosmology reflecting the Manual of the Planes (Maztica Alive! p. 49).

Second, the idea of pluma and hishna is cool, even if the execution is painfully weak. No, I'm not interested in reading the novels to get a sense of how powerful it can be. (Most "game novels" read as warning labels of bad writing to me. Yes, I'm an elitist. I can live with that.)

Third, as written, the magic system and class system clash with standard readings of AD&D core. But this is more an exciting opportunity than a problem.

(I actually read only the 4 core archetypes and their base classes, and all the kits are just unfleshed out optional classes. i.e. Paladin Samurai or Ranger Myrmidons are not really something I allow or want to encourage. So the idea of Jaguar/Eagle Knights and Pluma/Hishna Weavers sound quite cool as classes unto themselves.)

My first challenge is -- what to do with super-weak Pluma and Hishna. Well, the first obvious thing is that they should be considered incomplete spell lists. That's a standard thing for spells of all sorts since the beginning. These spell spheres just need more spells, period.

Gameplay-wise it asks the question, though, how is such weak magic functional in a Faerun-Maztica game? Short answer, it's not. Easy answer, you don't play mash-up games -- or you fix it yourself!

So my next post is going to be how I take Pluma and Hishna, tie it into cosmology and alignment, and try to make it a fun something unto itself... See you around!
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

#1
Pluma & Hishna

OK, I'm going to go with the assumption that Pluma and Hishna works perfectly fine in isolation from other settings.

What I am working on is how to mix it into a FR mash-up setting.

First, where are the strengths in Pluma and Hishna? One of the things I noticed is that there are these primary advantages:
- more # targets enchanted (see: Flight spells targeting 3/lvl)
- special durations (see: Fisher's Luck, Huntsmen's Call, Ambush)
- weird alterations to known spells (see: Magic Resistance v. Globe of Invulnerability, Hypnosis v. Charm Person)
-  outright permanent effects, enchantments, talismans.

If I were to make new spells, or alter known ones into these spheres, I would pay attention to those strengths.

But the big thing I thought to even out the Faerun v. Maztica magic differential is this: How about one-shot crafted magic items can be created at lvl 1 -- and only those with access to pluma/hishna can use?

That would be a game-changer. A land littered with imbued objects, whose sacred essence you couldn't tap unless you knew and followed the cosmology? It would also be an opportunity to justify astrology, cosmology alignment, art trade, animal lore that Eagle/Jaguar Knights and Pluma/Hishna Weavers all have in common, etc.
======================

Another issue, you learn spells "magically and automatically," but it does not seem like spell slots that you can switch out spells like wizards or priests. They are more fixed like a sorcerer. What if magic item creation was not bound by this structure?

What if the pluma/hishna spell list was the Common Maztica Spell Codex. Sure, through leveling up you gain mastery over new spells one at a time, casting without imbued items. But there'd be craft magic item access to both pluma and hishna spells, thus tying you into the cosmology flexibly.

And you can craft these items from the beginning. With success rate tied to astrology, proper temple and sacrifices, quality artwork or dance (fighters), and spell level in relation to one's spell knowledge, you can create imbued one-shots through investing into setting. If crafting one-shot magic items are decoupled from spell slot casting then you can have significant power, and thus maybe, remotely, approach parity, with Faerun magic.
====================

Next: Modifiers and Tables on Imbued Magic Item Success Rates, (or How a lvl 1 Eagle Knight, Hishna Weaver, and Eha Cleric survive the big, bad world)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

#2
Imbued Items, Religion, and Secret Societies

Pluma and Hishna imbued items — single use magical items akin to potions, oils, and powders — are different from the more familiar single use magical items.

First, though they are divine magic, they are more tightly entwined with the cosmology of Maztica. This means indoctrination into its mysteries are necessary to even use it. Which in practice restricts its usage to certain warrior and artisan secret societies (i.e. Eagle & Jaguar Knights, Pluma & Hishna Weavers, etc.), and priests intimately attached to Maztican cosmology (i.e. pluma/hishna sphere access). These are the only people trained to not only create an item imbued by the Maztican gods, but to also recognize and unleash the energy within as well.

Second, religion and its secret knowledge allow practitioners to appeal to the gods to imbue items beyond the supplicant's own mastery of powers. This is accomplished through a combination of god-appropriate sacrifice (of course), personal offering be it artwork or sacred dance, object to be imbued, alignment of the stars, and if possible a shrine or temple. Which means that pluma/hishna spell recipes can be attempted outside of one's expertise, either of pluma/hishna faction or spell level knowledge — if the stars align and your offering pleases, the gods may answer your prayers.

Third, there is still factional discord among the gods, with Qotal and his sisters vs. Zaltec and his brothers, but time is conceived as cyclical, and thus to every alignment there is a season. In practice this means that personal alignment (and its factionalism) affects how a specific god may favor you. However there is a fluidity for non-priest believers to appeal other gods for imbuing pluma/hishna items.

Now let me throw tables and numbers at this:

Requirements for Imbuing Pluma/Hishna Single Use Magic Items.
a) object to be imbued (either artwork or high quality animal part).
b) sign of sacrificial effort to the god — the beautiful labor upon the artwork or sacred dance.

Circumstances that Affect Imbuing Pluma/Hishna Single Use Magic Items.
a) an available temple pyramid or shrine — and which god to which it belongs.
b) the astrological favorability of the particular god which is being appealed.
c) the alignment and factional difference between petitioner and deity.
d) known level of occult spell knowledge.

Imbue Success modifiers are: art/dance, temple/shrine, stars, faction, alignment friction, & occult knowledge.

Artwork (Weavers) or Dance (Knights)
NWP are used to show professional level knowledge in a skill. A roll is generally not necessary for success at a baseline level. Only roll if a higher, called-shot level of success is attempted. (Failure is up to GM judgment, from default +40% or +20% if still under unmodified attribute, to art material ruin or dance embarrassment.)

Weavers use their artistic craftsmanship skill to produce labors honoring the gods — these labors happen to also be the same item to imbue.
No Roll = +40% imbue success.
Called Shot at -4 = (attribute -4 roll under check) = +50% imbue success.
Called Shot at -8 = (attribute -8 roll under check) = +60% imbue success.

Knights use their dance skill to produce labors honoring the gods — they still have to provide a fine example of animal fetish for the god to imbue.
No Roll = +20% imbue success.
Called Shot at -4 = (attribute -4 roll under check) = +30% imbue success.
Called Shot at -8 = (attribute -8 roll under check) = +40% imbue success.

Priests cannot benefit from dance or art to supplicate the gods.

Temples or Shrines
Visiting a god's temple needs you to bring an appropriate sacrifice just get the god's attention. Thankfully each god has shown where their preferences are. i.e. for Qotal this is beautiful things or freed animals, for Zaltec this is spilled blood or still beating hearts.

Temple Pyramids = +40% imbue success.
Smaller Shrines = +20% imbue success.

Priests only gain this modifier from their own deity's temples and shrines. Yes, this does mean that priests may find themselves needing favors from Knights and Weavers to imbue items for them. Priests therefore like to construct and repair buildings for their god when they can.

Astrology
To every thing its own season under heaven... Astrologically the stars can shift imbue success from -30% to +30%, showing a cyclical cosmological influence upon the True World. GM can mechanically do this in two ways, both needing an NWP Astrology proficient person to reveal the results to PCs.

One, some want to know of a particular deity's current astrological favorability. Use a d12 to determine a particular god's favorability. Don't roll this for each god, this is for quick resolution, ask the PC what they are truly looking for first (though you may fashion your own calendar, if you wish). This answer lasts for a full 24 hour day.

d12 Specific Deity's Favorability:
1 = +5%
2 = +10%
3 = +15%
4 = +20%
5 = +25%
6 = +30%
7 = -5%
8 = -10%
9 = -15%
10 = -20%
11 = -25%
12 = -30%

Two, some want to know which deity has the most favorable current astrological favorability. They basically want to know who gives +30%. Again, don't roll too much, this is for quick resolution. Roll a d12, this will determine which god. Again this answer will last for a full 24 hour day.

d12 Most Favored Deity:
1 = Qotal
2 = Qotal
3 = Watil
4 = Kiltzi
5 = Nula
6 = Eha
7 = Maztica
8 = Plutoq
9 = Azul
10 = Tezca
11 = Zaltec
12 = Zaltec

Faction
Qotal and his three sisters, Watil, Kiltzi, and Nula are on the Pluma side, disagreeing on the need of violent sacrifice to sustain them. Eha, the wind sprite, also is on the Pluma faction.

Zaltec and his three brothers, Putoq, Azul, and Tezca are on the Hishna side. They came around to Zaltec's argument that they need blood sacrifice to sustain them.

Faction modifier is always a penalty. If your class/kit, or priest's deity, disagrees with the faction being supplicated, it interferes whether the supplicated deity will favor the request. i.e., a Hishna Weaver may need an Arrow Flight (pluma) imbued item; she knows relations are strained, but still petitions a pluma faction god for help.

Incorrect Faction = -20% imbue success

Maztica, assumed dead and thus the form of the True World they now walk on, is on neither faction. Thus druids always suffer -20% when making pluma or hishna imbued items because they are outside of both pluma and hishna. There are whispers they do have their own magic, but they keep it quite secret.

Alignment
After the start of the game, you cannot easily know your own alignment, until you "fall" into an alignment shift. Those pivotal moments upends your core understanding of the world, changing your approach to it. The competing demands of needs, who to worship, and how to please, constantly tug at the heart of those in the True World.

But Maztica's cyclical cosmology is open to "falls from grace," expecting people, and ages, to reorient themselves from time to time. This leads to social politeness to not ask much of the non-ecclesiastical. People may have their reasons for worshiping at different temples at different times in their life.

However the gods know who's supplicating them, and how close they relate in viewpoint. Therefore the more shifts away a supplicant's alignment is from their alignment, the less likely a god will favor the prayer. This value is always from zero to negative.

If you and the god share the same alignment, no modifier. Travel along alignment is a step along each axis one at a time. Thus from LG to CE is four steps, LG to NE is three steps, LG to LE is two steps, and LG to LN is one step. Each step adds -10%.

Alignment Friction = -0%, -10%, -20%, -30%, or -40% imbue success.

Occult Knowledge
Any level pluma or hishna spell may be attempted to be imbued into a singular use item before knowledge of that spell level. (Except 5th lvl pluma/hishna Talismans; those are permanently enchanted relics in their own right, the deepest of pluma and hishna mysteries). Thus a 1st lvl Hishna Weaver may attempt to imbue Blossom, a 3rd lvl Pluma spell recipe, onto one of their artistic labors. It will be an uphill challenge to appease the god, but it is possible.

However, having a better grasp of deeper occult knowledge helps greatly.

Each time you learn a spell of a particular level, you are also assumed admittance into that spell level's deeper occult mysteries. You have a better understanding why things work as they do, and what draws the attention better of these astral powers. Thus a 4th lvl Eagle Knight, when they gain access to their first 2nd lvl spell, are assumed to be indoctrinated into 2nd lvl spell recipe occult knowledge. And this occult knowledge is usable in helping craft both pluma and hishna imbued items.

This modifier can be positive or negative. The highest spell level known is your depth of occult knowledge. Creating imbued items from recipes at the same depth of your spell level knowledge has no modifier. For every level the target recipe is beyond your depth, you incur -20% penalty. For every level your target recipe is beneath your understanding, you incur a +10% bonus.

1st Lvl Eagle/Jaguar Knight or Pluma/Hishna Weaver
(lvl 0 Occult Knowledge) attempting Imbue Recipe:
Pluma/Hishna lvl 1 = -20%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 2 = -40%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 3 = -60%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 4 = -80%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 5 = -100%

5th Lvl Jaguar Knight, 7th Lvl Eagle Knight, or 14th Lvl Weaver
(lvl 5 Occult Knowledge) attempting Imbue Recipe:
Pluma/Hishna lvl 1 = +40%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 2 = +30%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 3 = +20%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 4 = +10%
Pluma/Hishna lvl 5 = 0%
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Bloody Stupid Johnson

An interesting topic which unfortunately I'm finding fairly opaque due to very vague knowledge of the original Maztica material.
My 2c though would be that if the priest/wizard maztica analogues have pretty weak spellcasting powers, rather that trying to balance that either a) give them other stuff as well
(particularly social perks, if these guys are especially respected; for instance, you could modify a bard class as a base instead of wizard, maybe, fiddling with bonus proficiencies and stuff)
or b) if you're using this with 2E, just make them ordinarily be taken as part of a multiclass combination, so a character will still have fighter or rogue or psionicist or whatever other abilities to fall back on, even though their primary class is weak. I realize multiclass humans are not overly standard but I think it does have some precedent e.g. Legends and Lore allows a few specialty priests to do it.

Opaopajr

#4
As presented they are b). They are kits to be added atop Warrior>Fighter class or Rogue>Thief(modified) class.

They also have a), as these kits grant them access to spells, which is not common for warriors and rogues. So yes, a bit like bards able to cast spell, but their own special, mostly not very good, and incredibly finite list, of spells. basically they are hamstrung with high requirements for little return, and mostly for the set up of being easily crushed for I assume the novel fiction.

Overall the concept setting works great as a standalone (what doesn't?). But Maztica's big claim to fame is massive culture clash across the ocean — and colonialism. However it doesn't work all that well given scholastically we know more about Mesoamerica, and I myself learned more about it.

The framework tropes kinda fall flat in reference to their real world source material. Very much a "waiting to be conquered" vibe mixed with "and thank goodness! weren't they so bad?" and "here's some beautiful people apologia (pluma)." A pity because there's some juicy stuff in there, like the City of the Dead, Ruined Metropolis of Evil Humans Transmogrified into Evil Humanoids, and Lost City of Ant Guardians, etc.
===============

Ideally I don't want to rewrite most of the already extant stuff. I'm fine rewriting kit requirements, even into a class in its own right. But I don't want to rewrite spell level progression tables or spells themselves. One of the fastest equalizers I can think of is early access to crafting magic items, and restricting who can use them.

The challenge is how to make item creation interesting and adventurous. For me the easiest way would be quality items and their trade. However crafting gets tedious in any game without other factors. Thus specialty knowledges like astrology and occult, and alignment quandaries, are there to keep things fresh.

For example, since priests are rather tethered to a single deity, and get no art or dance modifier, they have to negotiate with other classes to get all the pluma and hishna imbued items they may need. Since temples and shrines add so much benefit in imbued item creation, new polities find building temples a priority. Since alignment can be such a penalty, dialogue with opposing viewpoints is necessary to supply one's pluma and hishna needs. Since occult knowledge is an issue, weavers and knights eventually outpace priests in imbued item success, thus are the emissaries of Maztica cosmology along the frontier.

It's a small solution with big setting ramifications, I think. I sorta like the fix as an adventure element itself.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Bloody Stupid Johnson


Opaopajr

I know, it's a bit unfair to you without a reference. You're ideas were solid by the way, if they weren't already the mechanical framework used to flesh out the setting. How familiar are you with the AD&D 2e terminology I was throwing about?

The magic crafting is rather a separate and discrete mechanic from the rest. It's in an effort to step as lightly as I can on the source material. Are there any confusing parts or terms I'm using that you want cleared up?
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Bloody Stupid Johnson

I'm pretty familiar with core 2E, most of the Complete series, miscellaneous other books. Quite a lot of junk, just not Maztica specifically..
AWOL myself for a bit, I'll have a more closer look at the system again in a bit.

Opaopajr

#8
Oh, then you'll know when I talk about kits and prereqs.

Yeah, for Maztica Rogues they used Thief or Bard class (from Rogue archetype), stripped out Pick Pockets and Open Locks for setting reasons (great flavor choice about looser private property views, laws, and punishments), and reserved Backstab only for the Hishna Weaver. Kits available are Acrobat, Scout, Pluma Weaver, and Hishna Weaver. Then the kits further restrict by adding attribute prereqs, limiting weapons, requiring NWP quotas by X level, and so forth.

It's pretty brutal thumbscrews, all in all. It's easier to just choose a bard.

As class/kit changes I'd make:

Attribute Requirements
Eagle Knights from STR 14, DEX 13, WIS 13 to STR 9, WIS 9.
Jaguar Knights from STR 13, INT 13 to STR 9, INT 9.
Pluma Weaver from DEX 12, WIS 13 to DEX 9, WIS 9.
Hishna Weaver from DEX 12, INT 13 to DEX 9, INT 9.

These are the bread and butter of the setting. You want to see them in play. I might be persuaded in bumping up the requirements to STR 11 Knight & DEX 11 Weaver for a less magical game and greater rarity. But I am thoroughly convinced it is too high as is, especially given default Method I (3d6 straight down) chargen.

Stone Weapons
I'm cool with the weapon limits and common weapon breakage. Thematic.

NWPs
By 7th lvl Eagle Knights needed proficiency in Animal Lore, Dancing, Direction Sense, and Weather Sense. (4 NWP total)
By 5th lvl Jaguar Knights needed proficiency in Animal Lore, Dancing, Blindfighting(!), and Hunting. (5 NWP total)

Given that Warriors and Rogues start out with 3 NWPs — and they progress slowly too, Warriors one NWP per divisible by 3 lvls and Rogues one NWP per divisible by 4 lvls — this is just crippling for any sort of variety. Jaguar Knights only get 3+1 NWP by 5th, and Blindfighting costs two NWPs; all totaled they need 5 NWPs filled and only have 4 by that level, it's actually an impossible requirement.

I'd start the Knights with free Animal Lore and Dancing.
Also, if thematic requirements desired I'd require by 10th lvl Eagle Knights Mountaineering NWP (lofty places!), and require by 10th lvl Jaguar Knights Blindfighting NWP (ambushes in the dark!).
Beyond that, no extra NWP requirements by X lvl.

By 10th lvl Pluma Weavers needed proficiency in Animal Lore, Healing, Set Snares, Tracking, and Weaving. Unfortunately Healing and Tracking both cost 2 NWP. And Animal Lore, Healing, and Tracking are not within Rogue or General skills, thus cost an extra NWP slot! (10 NWPs total)

By 10th lvl Hishna Weavers needed proficiency in Animal Lore, Animal Training, and Tracking. Again, Tracking is 2 NWPs, and Animal Lore and Tracking cost an extra NWP slot! It's like you're seeing a rushed pattern... (6 NWPs total)

And now remember Rogues will only have Initial 3 NWPs plus 2 NWPs from 4th and 8th lvl, total 5 NWPs. You'd need to allow blue box extra NWPs for INT to even attempt to cover this. A Pluma Weaver would need a minimum of this blue box option and INT 16 just to cover base requirements. Simply, this is unacceptable.

Also, why are artisans so invested in TWO Warrior NWPs, Animal Lore and Tracking? What exactly are they doing out there with this professional level of knowledge? And what is so special about Maztica animals that each pluma/hishna using kit requires Animal Lore? Is it tied to occult knowledge?...

I'd start the Weavers with free Animal Lore and Tracking.
Also require Weavers select an artistic NWP at character start.
Beyond that, no extra NWP requirements by X lvl.

Spell Known (not slots!)
I'm cool with the Knights, Priests, and Weavers slow pluma/hishna spell progression rates — if they can attempt imbuing one-shot magic items at 1st lvl start.

The magic system without it is functionally crippled in comparison. Works like sorcerer fixed spells learned except less spells learned, less spell choices, slow progression rate, don't start with any spells, limited functionality for some spells, basic spell duplication for higher cost on other spells, can take extra long to "re-memorize" due to some length casting times, etc. It looks like a mess of "oh shit! get this to market, stat!"

WPs
I'm cool with Pluma Weaver's required WP of bow and arrow, and its special benefit of+2 atk and dmg with bow and arrow.
I'm cool with Hishna Weaver's required WP of knife, and its special benefit as the only native Backstab on Maztica (it's the same as Thief).

I'd be even better if there was loosening of their further weapon restrictions compared to the Thief.

Pluma Weavers can only use bow and arrow (and must start with its proficiency), sling, and "blunt melee."
Hishna Weavers can only use knife (and must start with its proficiency), spear/spear-thrower, and "blunt melee." (Yeah that's right, knife but no dagger or dirk. Ain't that a bitch?)

Not so cool with Eagle Knights locking up 3 of their 4 starting WP slots with bow and arrow, spear, and maca.
Same with Jaguar Knights locking up 3 of their 4 starting WP slots with knife, spear, and maca.
I would give them free WP with their faction's respective favored weapon, bow and arrow for pluma, and knife for hishna, respectively.
I would then be OK with requiring one WP proficiency for either spear or maca.

WPs are the lifeblood of Warriors, and they really shine with Complete Handbook Fighter's new toys like Weapon Styles Specialization, Weapon Groups big and small, and Punch/Wrestle Style Specializations. As is they barely have one extra NWP left to Weapon Specialize (and Eagle Knights don't have enough WPs left to Weapon Specialize in bow and arrow).
======================

I think that's all for now. There's definitely a rushed feel to the work, and obviously questionable choices. However it is nothing a little tighter editing cannot fix, I hope.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Bloody Stupid Johnson

Seems reasonable. As is, the NWP restrictions do seem quite crippling. I'd always assumed the bonus-NWPs-for-Int is pretty much only 'optional' because NWPs are optional, rather than this being a separate dial that's turned so-to-speak, if only since a normal character defaults to +2 extra slots. (Although with 2E's toolkit approach it could make sense to do that if you'd dumped the Modern Languages proficiency and kept languages a separate consideration to NWPs).
Maybe the Pluma Weaver's attack/damage bonus with bows should just be bow specialization? Also, FWIW, my own personal preference has away from level-based extra prerequisites because ideally a character should actually be picking up skills that are campaign-relevant, particularly in 2E where acquisition of skills is relatively slow.

Opaopajr

#10
Yes, I feel we share the same concerns, particularly about the optional section of WPs/NWPs. However the attribute reqs for a setting's flagship class/kit, removed class benefits, and weapon restrictions (all core PHB mechanics,) are also quite parsimonious. Stripping PP and OL is quite the NERF, especially if you read PP as something more flexible like Legerdemain.

As for the Modern Languages NWP, I keep it in. However the extra NWP for INT is based off the extra languages for INT column. I run Common as rudimentary mutual communication (like a pigin or patois) and Known Language as full professional complexity. In my campaigns, those extra NWPs are reserved for Modern/Ancient Languages. And given that there's already a fistful of languages at Maztica's start -- along with a presumed epic culture clash with colonialism (and a few more tongues thrown in up north for the City of Gold supplement/adventure,) -- that's something that's going to be important in my games.

Those NWP reqs by X lvl are a rather inflexible design standpoint, especially since they hinge on reading an optional chapter with all its optional blue box extensions sprinkled elsewhere to be read one specific way. And even then such a reading doesn't guarantee the possibility of completion. Remember, Eagle & Pluma Weavers run off STR/DEX & WIS reqs; it is wholly allowable to have an INT stat below 9 (thus only 1 Known Language, or 1 extra NWP respectively, to be reserved for one's native tongue). It's simply bad design and editing, IMHO.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

#11
OK, now time for examples, because they help contextualize the rules in practice.

We'll deal with a 1st lvl Pluma Weaver. They start with no spells known and thus by RAW could cast no spells at 1st lvl. By using my Pluma/Hishna imbued item creation rules, they'll tap into Maztican magic and cosmology from the get-go.

Our Pluma Weaver is of the Pluma faction, is Neutral Good, and tends to favor worship of Watil goddess of plants.

This week she has a big responsibility to safely help guide a group of refugees from destroyed Nexal through the Fertile Desert into new Tukan. They are currently in Cordotl, dangerously close to Nexal Valley filled with evil humans and humanoids. In her group she has an aged astrologer commoner and his elderly wife, two small children, and a 1st lvl Watil priest with minor Pluma sphere (NG pluma goddess of plants).

Stocking up on as many imbued items will be a lifesaver. Without such items, they'd likely be dead in the desert sands, blocked by strips of Mt. Zatal's solidified (yet hot!) lava fields, or easily spotted by the Viper Hand's roving patrols of slavers. They need to be able to hide, get water, and endure heat.

She feels these spells will be the most life saving:
=========================

Cool, 1st lvl Pluma spell
Range: Touch
Components: V,S,M
Duration: 4 hours/lvl
Casting Time: 1 turn (10 minutes). (Ignored for Imbued Items)
Area of Effect: 1 individual/lvl
Saving Throw: None

Allows a character to feel comfortable in conditions that would otherwise debilitate and even injure them, such as desert heat.

If actual fire or heat damage would be inflicted -- including magical fires, lava, and the like -- the character receives -1 dmg per die, regardless of the dice rolled.

Ambush, 2nd lvl Hishna spell
Range: 0
Components: V,S,M
Duration: Special
Casting Time: 1 turn (10 minutes) (Ignored for Imbued Items)
Area of Effect: 3 Individuals/lvl
Saving Throw: Negates.

Allows caster and others to conceal themselves in any kind of outdoor terrain. The concealed characters must remain reasonably still and silent, or the spell will be broken, but as long as they do so they will blend in with the landscape -- be it trees, short grass, even a flat expanse of sand.

If a party approaches the ambush, the leading character in that party is entitled to saving throw versus illusion. If successful, this negates the ambush and the characters will discover the ambushing party with a normal chance of success. [i.e normal surprise roll]

Water Summoning, 3rd lvl Pluma spell
Range: 0
Components: V, S
Duration: 1 turn (10 min.)/lvl
Casting Time: 1 turn (10 min.) (Ignored for Imbued Items)
Area of Effect: Special
Saving Throw: None

Draw water from apparently parched ground. Creates a small stream, spuming @ 4' into the air before splashing back to earth. Will continue for the duration of the spell, [...].
===========================

There is much praying to be done this week! Hopefully the Watil priest can participate, but there is only a Watil shrine left here in Cordotl. This small town does have temples to Kiltzi, Nula, Plutoq, Tezca, and Zaltec. Regardless, a Hishna faction god will have to be appealed to so that Ambush imbued items can be made. It's the best way to hide such a weak and exposed group amid new hardened ash and lava fields, and blistering flat sands.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

#12
Consulting the aged astrologer, our Watil Priest asks where the stars stand for Watil. Our Pluma Weaver also asks who the stars most favor today for pluma and hishna. (GM would roll d12 for Watil's astrological percent, then roll d12 for who's at +30% on down for the first most star-favored Pluma and Hishna god.)

The astrologer consults and finds that Kiltzi is most favored today, at +30%! Tezca is most favored Hishna faction at +20%. Watil is only -5% today.
============================

The Watil priest only has Watil's shrine available to imbue items, and the stars do not favor the goddess today. Without art or dance to offer, and low occult knowledge, the imbue success rate is just not going to cut it. The best she can do is ask around Cordotl and trade or perform other spell services for such imbued items. However how many can she trust without giving away their plans to hostiles?

Watil Priest
can only visit their deity's temple/shrines, no additional art or dance offering possible as they are already pledged to their god. however no faction penalty and rarely alignment penalty.

No art or dance
Shrine +20%
Stars -5%
Zero faction penalty
Zero alignment penalty
Occult -20% for Cool 1st lvl spell, -60% for Water Summoning 3rd lvl spell
----------------------------------
Cool at -5% imbue success. Water Summoning at -45% success.

==============================

Our Pluma Weaver has a real shot at the pluma spells today!

Kiltzi Temple
Artwork +40%
Temple +40%
Stars +30%
Zero faction penalty
Alignment -10% (NG to CG is one shift. each shift = -10%)
Occult -20 for Cool 1st lvl spell, -60 for Water Summoning 3rd lvl spell
-------------------------
Cool at +80% imbue success. Water Summoning at +40%.

This would be a good opportunity to try Called Shots upon her Artwork. Even better, create multiple artwork pieces for Kiltzi and see if she can trade a few to a higher level worshiper of Kiltzi for them to imbue! She'll have to ask around Kiltzi worshippers who is deeper into the goddess' mysteries and would be willing to trade.

Cool spell should be easy enough for her to imbue herself. Not a bad time to make as many as she can. But she needs to fit art creation, spell imbuing, and favor trading all today while she can! Something's got to be prioritized today, either several imbued items of Cool or a Water Summoning or two at best.

As for Hishna spell Ambush...

Tezca Temple
Artwork +40%
Temple +40%
Stars +20%
Faction -20%
Alignment -20% (NG to NE is two shifts)
Occult -40% for Ambush a 2nd lvl spell
--------------------------------------
Ambush at 20% imbue success.

She is being hammered by her lack of Occult spell knowledge Even more, her ideology is a barrier, by her faction and alignment. She's going to have to offer her artistic services and see if she can get the support of a hishna practitioner. Without the faction and alignment penalties even a 1st lvl Jaguar Knight Tezca devotee can use her artwork with a +60% imbue success chance -- doable!

But she has a lot of work to do today before they leave this week. She needs to take advantage of her pluma opportunity, then prepare hishna god artwork anticipating trade later. She just needs to know who can she trust among Cordotl's Jaguar Knights, Hishna Weavers, and Priests serving hishna faction gods...
====================================

Making artwork, or learning dances and collecting fine quality animal parts, for gods besides your own favored becomes good policy. Further keeping at least some decent relations from those who favor opposing faction gods becomes mutually beneficial. It reminds me of the give and take of priests, astrologers, artists, magicians, and sorcerers in real world human communities from anthropology surveys.

Questions, thoughts, ideas?
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

Casting Times
Casting Times for Imbued Items are paid during the ritual itself. They take 1 hour plus their Casting Time. So if the casting time is a 1 turn, the Imbuing Ritual takes 70 minutes; 3 segments, Imbuing Ritual takes 1 hour and 3 segments; a day, Imbuing Ritual takes 1 day +1 hour.

Featherweaving and Scrollsee having casting times of "special" and are thus special circumstances.

Featherweaving heals 1 HP per hour of continued casting time concentration. Though people can persist in extended rituals greater than 2 hours, thus gaining more than 1 HP when using the imbued item, most only persist in the ritual for two hours. So most imbued Featherweaving items tend to heal 1 HP, and are often used to awaken downed and swooned allies (0 HP) for an emergency quick exit.

Scrollsee records up to 10 minutes of caster experience around him or her like a movie upon a writing sheet. Though other ritual time frames, some as short as 1 hour and 1 minute, can be done it is normally done for the full 1 hour and 10 minutes. There have been known mischievous hishna practitioners doing less, but it's considered a rather long way to go for a joke, besides it testing the patience of the gods.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

#14
Warriors, Eagle and Jaguar Knights
But what happens to Warriors, the Eagle Knights and the Jaguar Knights? Where's their love? Well, they have several advantages:

First, if you see my kit edits above, I would let them get Dancing as a free NWP as part of their kit. As professional dancers this allows them to get +20% without needing to roll. Whereas this would take up an NWP slot for Maztican priests, with pluma/hishna sphere, and Pluma/Hishna Weavers.

However, they can trade for 'Weaver artwork to get their professional +40%. That's like a Called Shot at -8, a truly great challenge, all for mutual cooperation. That said, in the middle of wilderness, pressed for time from danger, they are rarely without recourse as they can fall back on Dancing.

They also get a strong boost by their Eagle/Jaguar Form 5th lvl spell, during their 7th and 5th class level respectively. By reaching that occult spell knowledge they now have anywhere from a 0% to +40% bonus, instead of occult penalty, to imbue an item. Their amount of spells known (to cast, not imbue) will always be far less than Priests and 'Weavers, but they are inculcated into the deepest mysteries sooner (5th lvl Occult Knowledge) as Eagle/Jaguar Form are frequently in the forefront of strategies leading up to glorious war.
===========================

5th lvl CE Jaguar Knight needs Spearflight spells. Nula's favored by the stars today, 25%, yet town only has a shrine. Trades for Nula artwork.

Spearflight
+40% artwork
+20% shrine
+25% stars
-20% wrong faction
-20% alignment shift
+40% 5th lvl occult knowledge attempting 1st lvl spell
----------------------
+95% Spearflight imbue rate. Since 5th lvl class while trying to imbue, will work on 3 people per lvl for 3 turns per lvl, or 15 spearmen for 2hrs and 30 min.

Same 5th lvl CE Jaguar Knight needs Snake Charm, Heartsense, and Scalesnares to even the odds of betrayers among his scouting party. In the wilderness, escaped with little and hid for his life, without temple or artwork to offer. Has no knowledge of the stars, but desperate and will pray to favored god Zaltec.

Snake Charm, 1st lvl Hishna
+20% dance
no temple/shrine
+5% stars
no faction penalty
no alignment penalty
+40% occult knowledge
------------------------
+65% Snake Form imbue rate. Fifth level means range is 50 yards, charm up to 5 snakes, and they will loyally guard or assassinate (if target's location is known) for him for 5 days.

Scalesnare & Heartsense, 2nd lvl Hishna
+20% dance
no temple/shrine
+5% stars
no faction penalty
no alignment penalty
+30% occult knowledge
----------------------
+55% Scalesnare & Heartsense imbue rate. Heartsense at 5th lvl will warm blooded hearts, and creature's relative size, by this sense in a radius of 150 yards for 50 minutes.

Pretty good odds all things considered, yet Called Shot Dancing may be a good idea right now!
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman