Continuing this lurch off-topic, I've also noticed two things about Black Lagoon (which has now completely captured my interest!):

• The official dub of episodes 5-8 are due out on July 24
• A set of all 12 episodes of season 1, un-dubbed, but seemingly with English subtitles, is available for sale

I'm keeping my eyes and ears open.

!i!

I would say that you should put more examples in the text. Examples have the twin purposes of both explaining the rules more clearly, and making the rules more interesting to read, rather than just skim over...

Wow!
How did you emulate the LBB-style?

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaFor my part, I mostly envisage character activity to focus either around tramp steamers or professional marine salvage companies.  The former likens to the classic "free trader" model in Traveller, while the latter can span the gamut from high seas rescue of distressed ships to treasure hunting.  For those with an eye toward the model of Book 4, Mercenary, there's the option of signing on with a martime security company -- hired soldiers who guard ships against pirates.  The frequency of unusual activity will necessarily be greater than that in real life, but that's a necessity of entertainment aspect of the game.

For inspiration, the TV show "Firefly" is a very good model.  I've also been finding the Arturo Pérez-Reverte novels The Nautical Chart and Queen of the South highly inspiring.

!i!

Sounds good.

Most of Clive Cussler's Dirl Pitt novels are sea-based. I guess they would be a good source of inspiration too.

With regard to examples, I actually tried to follow the example of the original Traveller, which featured an economy of style that afforded very, very few examples, and the tone was almost academic in its delivery of the rules.  The ORE featured many more examples and a far more conversational tone than I had intended.  Now that I'm beginning to work with the actual Traveller mechanics, I'm going to need to decide how much of that to preserve.  I'll confess that I've grown quite fond of both Captain Jameson (you got that in-joke, right?) and Yu-Ping Jones.

There are times that I feel that too many examples clutter the layout and may even detract from the exposition of the rules.  One thing you can say about the classic Traveller, it laid out the rules and then moved right along to the next section.

As for the LBB style and layout, you like that, huh?  I found a very close approximation of the Traveller cover and header font, then I paid close attention to how the LBBs were laid out section by section.  I have to be honest, there are times that I worry that I imitated the style too closely, and that the powers-that-be might consider it a case of product confusion.  At the very least, I've been working on an alternate cover that captures the feel of the LBBs without looking exactly the same.  After all, FFE is still selling the collected LBBs, and I really don't want someone buying MARINER thinking that they're buying Traveller (yes, I know, as stupid as that may seem, it's the sort of thing that happens to very well-meaning and otherwise bright people).

Finally, Clive Cussler.  I accidentally shop-lifted Atlantis Found once.  I was at a pharmacist, waiting for a prescription to be filled, and I absent-mindedly picked the book up off a rack and began to read.  My prescription was called when it was ready, I shuffled things between my hands and my pockets while I paid for it, then I walked out to my car and sat down.  I'd forgotten to put the book back on the rack.  Anyway, I finished it later that night, went back to the drug store the next day and paid for the book.

Anyway, point being, I read the book and I thought it was dumb.  The main character, Dirk Pitt, is a "Mary Jane" through and through, the plot was contrived, and the villains were predictable.  But you know?  That's kind of a shitty way to look at it.  I realised that the Dirk Pitt novels are a lot like the Ramones' music -- undeniably dumb, but fun.  They knew that what they were doing was dumb, but they were doing what they wanted to do, and lots of people loved them for doing it.  And, when you get right down to it, that's how a lot of RPG characters play out.  So, long story short, hells yeah, I'd love it if someone was inspired by the Dirk Pitt novels sat down and ran a MARINER campaign or character because of it.  Many paths arrive at the same destination.

!i!

I think Traveller is a fantastic model for a good, concise gamebook, and you could do a whole lot worse in my eyes.  

I don't really care for an overabundance of examples, it slows reading down, it often muddies things as much as it clarifies them, and really, if your rules are written well enough they aren't really necessary.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThere are times that I feel that too many examples clutter the layout and may even detract from the exposition of the rules.  One thing you can say about the classic Traveller, it laid out the rules and then moved right along to the next section.

Anyway, point being, I read the book and I thought it was dumb.  The main character, Dirk Pitt, is a "Mary Jane" through and through, the plot was contrived, and the villains were predictable.  But you know?  That's kind of a shitty way to look at it.  I realised that the Dirk Pitt novels are a lot like the Ramones' music -- undeniably dumb, but fun.  They knew that what they were doing was dumb, but they were doing what they wanted to do, and lots of people loved them for doing it.  And, when you get right down to it, that's how a lot of RPG characters play out.  So, long story short, hells yeah, I'd love it if someone was inspired by the Dirk Pitt novels sat down and ran a MARINER campaign or character because of it.  Many paths arrive at the same destination.

!i!

Yep - i agree - no examples really in classic traveller and to emulate that, I think you are right not to put too many into your text.

As to Cussler - some of his books I find fun and some dumb. But as you say, great RPG material and, if/when I run a game of Mariner (when you have reverted to Traveller rules), I would use some of those books for scenario inspiration.

QuoteAs for the LBB style and layout, you like that, huh?  

Definitely!
I would really appreciate if you could inform me on the fonts you used.

Ian, this is a wickedly cool project and your Traveller-homage layout is outstanding -- I already have my wallet out reflexively.  Using ORE is a pretty cool choice, though I'm currently on a high from the system so that might be rose-coloured.  The only thing that keeps me from playtesting it is the fact that I really want to play my existing campaign for a while before dumping yet another new game on my players.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's right, you'd mentioned Black Lagoon some time back.  I just Googled up a couple of references and found that Geneon already has the official studio subs on the market.  This looks very, very interesting, and, yes, this is exactly the sort of thing I'd envisage players doing wtih MARINER.  After all, it's pretty much exactly what we did with Traveller (right down to the businessman character being a barely-explicable member of the crew

I guess that's a fitting moment to tell you about my employer.

Quote from: Dirk RemmeckeI guess that's a fitting moment to tell you about my employer.

It's a bit of a lurch off-topic, but I found a copy of the first four episodes of Black Lagoon (English-dubbed) this weekend.  It did not disappoint, though I had a little trouble with a couple of the more strident voice actors (notably, the actress who made Revy snarl at the top of her lungs in the majority of her lines, and the actor who made the mercenary helicopter pilot sound like a cartoon dog -- maybe I need to blame the dubbing director, though).  It was, indeed, good inspiration for a game.

Dirk -- I have to ask.  How does your company deal with the content of episode 4 (and, presumably, ep. 5)?  Perhaps my understanding is too simplistic, but I thought that depictions of the Nazi swastika and such were verbotten.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaIt's a bit of a lurch off-topic, but I found a copy of the first four episodes of Black Lagoon (English-dubbed) this weekend. (...)

Dirk -- I have to ask.  How does your company deal with the content of episode 4 (and, presumably, ep. 5)?  Perhaps my understanding is too simplistic, but I thought that depictions of the Nazi swastika and such were verbotten.

They are verboten in certain contexts. In the movies (and other media) they are generally allowed if they are shown as what they were - the symbols of Nazi Germany. So Der Untergang, Indiana Jones, Hogan's Heroes, (alternate) WW II episodes of various Star Trek series, Fatherland, and Black Lagoon are all uncensored. (Though Black Lagoon received a PG 16 rating because of this.)

The swastika is not allowed in board games (Axis & Allies!), toys (Revell modelling kits), some comic books (even -or especially?- when depicted in culturally differing meanings, e.g. in the manga, Blade of the Immortal, and the anime, One Piece).

Ah, thank you.  And sorry for the double-t in "verboten" -- my German is hid-hujs-ly rusty.

!i!

No secrets -- I've begun to forge ahead with an adaptation of the Traveller rules set.  I thought I'd give you a sneak peek at the core careers I've decided on:

QuoteThere are ten standard careers in MARINER:

Navy — Maritime armed forces consisting of surface, subsurface, and aviation divisions.  Also includes amphibious special forces and intelligence units.
Marines — Amphibious armed forces organized for rapid deployment, consisting of infantry, artillery, armored cavalry, reconnaissance, and air support and strike units.  Popularly known for their elite training and esprit de corps.
Army — Main body armed forces consisting of infantry, artillery, armored cavalry, airborne cavalry, and special forces units.
Air Force — Airborne armed forces organized to extend and support air power into theaters of operation.
Merchants — Civilian maritime organizations involved in the contracted transport, and sometimes purchase and resale, of material goods, and the operation of associated vessels.
Doctors — Civilian medical professionals, including both nurses and medical doctors.
Scientists — Civilian organizations involved in academic and commercial research, and application of scientific knowledge.
Police — Civilian law enforcement organizations charged with enforcing and upholding local statutes.
Rogues — Criminal elements, solitary or organized, engaged in generally violent means to achieve their goals.
Other — A catch-all category for just about every other career, often indicating an individual who has held no single, steady career, possibly including the idle rich.

Any number of careers may be chosen, serving one term in a new career subsequent to another in a previous career, with only two stipulations: only one military career (Navy, Marines, Army, or Air Force) may be chosen, and; the enlistment roll or special requirement must be met for each career.

I'm also including options for College, Graduate School (including options for both Masters and Ph.D), and Medical School.

All of this I'm trying to keep clean and simple, but characters will be able to skip from a 4-year stint in the Army to 4 years of college, then an 8-year career as a scientist...or whatever combination they need to reflect the overall career that the players want.  I also wanted the options available from the get-go to reflect the sort of maritime characters commonly known from novels, television, and movies.

Any comments on the core careers chosen or the descriptions given are welcome.

!i!

You might consider adding some kind of career that models white collar guys, like Rock in Blue Lagoon.  Maybe adapt the Bureaucrat career from Supplement 4?

Somebody who's good with paperwork and red tape, as well as negotiation.