This might be a little left field but a friend of mine is using a magic system where the spells are tatoos on the skin. Each single tatoo is a spell. The colour of the tatoo gives the type of spell - green generally are nice spells (heal etc), red are blow shit up spells and black ones are to do with the dead. If you go up against a bloke covered in huge black tatoos, you know you're in trouble. I think his player group have really enjoyed that.

Quote from: Silverlion"You have vast magical ability...and you..grow crops?"

Of course, historically in societies which believed in a hereditary talent for magic, that's just what the power was for: protecting crops and curing cattle, which isn't exactly the stuff of high fantasy. In Finland, one particular kind of a witch even used to specialize in taking care of the fields, maajumala or "earth god".

Quote from: GrimGentOf course, historically in societies which believed in a hereditary talent for magic, that's just what the power was for: protecting crops and curing cattle, which isn't exactly the stuff of high fantasy. In Finland, one particular kind of a witch even used to specialize in taking care of the fields, maajumala or "earth god".

Did she have to be eaten by a giant to get that spell?

I love Finnish myths. Anyway, but yeah, I think that be an interesting way--make magic a talent that is random, inborn but with a focus on something not very "adventure friendly."

That means adventurers who can figure out a good use for their magic will be extremely rare. (Maybe seen as mad, which is in general a good way to balance them.)

Quote from: SilverlionDid she have to be eaten by a giant to get that spell?

I love Finnish myths. Anyway, but yeah, I think that be an interesting way--make magic a talent that is random, inborn but with a focus on something not very "adventure friendly."

That means adventurers who can figure out a good use for their magic will be extremely rare. (Maybe seen as mad, which is in general a good way to balance them.)

Cure Cattle Blight doesn't have quite the same ring as Fireball.  

Quote from: StormBringerCure Cattle Blight doesn't have quite the same ring as Fireball.  

No, and that's the point--fireball is big flashy, impressive--the kind of magic and adventurer would use--the type of people who WANT to be upwardly mobile and change their fats, hence Jedi Facism! (or more Sith facism but still.)

Quote from: SilverlionDid she have to be eaten by a giant to get that spell?

He, actually: most witches have traditionally been men around here, and they were fundamentally opposed to the idea of working together in any kind of a "coven". Also, unlike in many other countries, those accused during the witch trials in Finland generally were guilty of at least attempting to harm others through sorcery.

Quote from: Rob LangThis might be a little left field but a friend of mine is using a magic system where the spells are tatoos on the skin. Each single tatoo is a spell. The colour of the tatoo gives the type of spell - green generally are nice spells (heal etc), red are blow shit up spells and black ones are to do with the dead. If you go up against a bloke covered in huge black tatoos, you know you're in trouble. I think his player group have really enjoyed that.

I do rather like differing magic systems like that, and it would lend itself to 'X times per day' better than the Vancian bastardization D&D uses.  It makes more sense to 'charge' your tattoos every day than 'forgetting' how to cast a spell.

Quote from: SilverlionNo, and that's the point--fireball is big flashy, impressive--the kind of magic and adventurer would use--the type of people who WANT to be upwardly mobile and change their fats, hence Jedi Facism! (or more Sith facism but still.)

So, how would you categorize them?  Utility vs Combat?  Hedge magic vs Wizardry?

Quote from: SilverlionAlternately you could make it unavailable to anyone who has the mindset to be an adventurer

"You have vast magical ability...and you..grow crops?"

"Uhuh."

"Why you could..."

'The crops won't grow themselves.."

"I..."

I rather quite like this idea -- magic is almost exclusively the province of practical wielders.  This especially makes sense if magic is ultimately derived from specific deific sources.  Thus, the god of agriculture grants crop-oriented magic, the god of the smithy grants metal- and forge-based magic, etc.  Thus, the main corpus of any magical domain is very pragmatic and, frankly, kind of boring in nature.  However, every magical domain has a couple of real wow-spells that, with some imagination and the right circumstances, can take the day.

Now, maybe, just maybe, there's some clever Promethean god or hero out there who has been stealing the best spells from their rightful domains and granting them to clever, adventurous sorts like him/herself.  So there's this school of flash-bang adventuring magic out there, probably eternally on the lam due to the "stolen" nature of the magic, and probably in the hands of rogues, thieves, and tricksters. Kind of gives magicians like this a good reason to be adventuring and always on the road (and maybe to not be too showy with their powers).

Quote from: StormBringerI do rather like differing magic systems like that, and it would lend itself to 'X times per day' better than the Vancian bastardization D&D uses. It makes more sense to 'charge' your tattoos every day than 'forgetting' how to cast a spell.

I enjoy the meta-gamey proposal that someone posted here a while back, wherein magic is performed essentially by contract law.  Spellbooks and scrolls are, in reality, binding contracts with the various and sundry powers that can provide a desired magical effect.  The contract is binding only for a very specific number of uses or length of time, after which the contract must be renewed.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI rather quite like this idea -- magic is almost exclusively the province of practical wielders.  This especially makes sense if magic is ultimately derived from specific deific sources.  Thus, the god of agriculture grants crop-oriented magic, the god of the smithy grants metal- and forge-based magic, etc.  Thus, the main corpus of any magical domain is very pragmatic and, frankly, kind of boring in nature.  However, every magical domain has a couple of real wow-spells that, with some imagination and the right circumstances, can take the day.

Now, maybe, just maybe, there's some clever Promethean god or hero out there who has been stealing the best spells from their rightful domains and granting them to clever, adventurous sorts like him/herself.  So there's this school of flash-bang adventuring magic out there, probably eternally on the lam due to the "stolen" nature of the magic, and probably in the hands of rogues, thieves, and tricksters. Kind of gives magicians like this a good reason to be adventuring and always on the road (and maybe to not be too showy with their powers).I enjoy the meta-gamey proposal that someone posted here a while back, wherein magic is performed essentially by contract law.  Spellbooks and scrolls are, in reality, binding contracts with the various and sundry powers that can provide a desired magical effect.  The contract is binding only for a very specific number of uses or length of time, after which the contract must be renewed.

!i!

Fantastic.

I am hereby appropriating both of those ideas.

Have I directed anyone to the Wiki recently?  

Quote from: StormBringerFantastic.

I am hereby appropriating both of those ideas.

Thank you.  Please do.

In thinking on my previous proposal, I realise that it rather messes with a number of the accepted principles of D&D.

For one thing, if all magic has a divine source, and no arcane source, then clerics and wizards are essentially the same thing.  Presumably clerics minister to the adherents of the faith, while the wizards contemplate magical articles of faith in their libraries.  Also, not all clerics necessarily have healing spells, as that would be the domain of a healing god, though perhaps these spells could be shared with closely allied dieties.

The sorcerer, on the other hand, logically falls under the rubric of the rogue.  Always on the move, they might very well fall in to thievery, entertainment, what-have-you.  It's possible this might bring the bard into the equation as well.  I'd almost envisage the sorcerer and the bard as prestige classes of the rogue, much as Unearthed Arcana cast rangers and paladins as prestige classes.  Anyway, sorcerers are "spell-theives", clever rogues who serve their god by pilfering choice spells from the tomes and scrolls of the more socially upright clerics and wizards.  Once the spell is stolen, the sorcerer's god grants the power to cast it effectively.  This could conceivably include stolen healing spells, too.

So here's another reason for sorcerers to go adventuring -- plundering the lost libraries of long-forgotten magicians and their half-forgotten gods. Everyone else gets the gold and the jewels -- the sorcerer/rogue gets the scrolls and the books.  They'd almost become the de facto leaders of dungeon-delving expeditions, acting as the patrons who assemble teams of doughty warriors and mercenaries to accompany them on their quests.

!i!

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaI rather quite like this idea -- magic is almost exclusively the province of practical wielders.  
...
Now, maybe, just maybe, there's some clever Promethean god or hero out there who has been stealing the best spells from their rightful domains and granting them to clever, adventurous sorts like him/herself.  So there's this school of flash-bang adventuring magic out there, probably eternally on the lam due to the "stolen" nature of the magic, and probably in the hands of rogues, thieves, and tricksters.
!i!

This reminds me of Runequest, certainly the game we're playing. It's certainly a high-magic setting but we've encountered mostly magic used by hunters, gatherers, midwives and crop growers.

And not a sunspear among them.

Quote from: PelorusThis reminds me of Runequest, certainly the game we're playing.

And thusly do my roots reveal themselves.

Last night I started thinking to myself, hey, this would be a really cool backdrop for a campaign to run myself.  What system would I use?  Well, there's RQ...

Yeah, I honestly didn't intend it, but the bleed from one to the other is undeniable in retrospect. The moment I wrote about healing spells being "the domain of the healing god" I started thinking of Chalana Arroy and Xiola Umbar.

!i!

Quote from: GrimGentHe, actually: most witches have traditionally been men around here, and they were fundamentally opposed to the idea of working together in any kind of a "coven". Also, unlike in many other countries, those accused during the witch trials in Finland generally were guilty of at least attempting to harm others through sorcery.

Hrms, I thought you said something that indicated "she", but I must have misread somewhere. My mistake (I recognize that witches are he's in a lot of places.) Funny enough the Viking were a bit afraid of Finns for their "sorceries." which I find very interesting and telling.

I think Ian's ideas are great


(But admit I think I might like to see the inverse--God's had power, humans developed diety envy, so found magic through study and tracing particularly potent natural bloodlines--then the god's contrived a way to steal magic from men to put themselves back on top...)

Just odd..I know.