Apparently the OGL for the new edition of D&D won't be released for free immediately.

What would happen if someone without that license made a product using the 4th edition rules, and advertised it as (for example) "fully compatible with 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons, but not endorsed by Wizards of the Coast"?

No-one knows what the GSL will contain, as no-one has seen it yet. Therefore, you'd have no idea as to what was open source or not. They seem to be a bit more serious this time around, so i wouldn't risk it personally.

I wouldn't even think of trying to publish anything to do with 4e/GSL until you get more details.  You could get your generic setting/fluff stuff ready, and they try and work in the 4e/GSL rules when they become available... but that's it.

You could take the Paizo route and stick with the OGL -- it won't ever change.

Or you could step back from all of it and stick with public domain -- which includes man of the fantasy elements common to D&D, Palladium FRPG, Warhammer FRPG, etc.

Ultimately, it depends on what you're working on.

Quote from: StuartI wouldn't even think of trying to publish anything to do with 4e/GSL until you get more details.

Ditto. So many people have been burnt getting started early.

Legally, provided you lifted not a single written word nor infringed upon their copyrighted terms, you would be in the clear.


Not that it would stop them from leveling a lawsuit against you until their superior financial situation drove you to the poorhouse regardless.

My 4e. setting is totally compatible with 4e. D&D but not endorsed by WotC. It is also wicked cool. I doubt the Wiz will try and sue me. So long as you're not profiting off of it, you're probably fine. IANAL though.

Spike, even if you advertised it as "fully compatible with 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons, but not endorsed by Wizards of the Coast"?

We don't know.  The mechanics themselves can't be copyrighted, but their expression can be (as can many unexciting technical expressions).  Assuming everything was appropriately restated and such, it may be possible that someone could get away with it.  Hasbro would almost certainly sue (if you're selling it), however, and just defending would cost a fortune.

My understanding of both Copyright and trademark law, while obviously limited (not being a lawyer), is that: Yes.

Being compatable with something else is not a crime. Look at all the third party crap that comes out for cell phones and computers and even gaming platforms.  

If Microsoft can't keep motherfuckers from making compatable controllers for the Xbox 360, how can Hasbro keep joe game designer from making a product compatable with D&D?

They can't.  Not with Dice, not with game supplements (though lord knows, they could try the financial solution of putting you to trial over and over again to bankrupt you... not that THAT is particularly legal or ethical... but then they could do that to any RPG company even it if WEREN"T a D&D related product under the same mentality... but that's not cost effective...)

Copyright covers the actually expression of the rules, so rewriting it completely covers you there... provided you did an actual rewrite that is different to the casual observer... and this shit can be argued at length (as they do in music, see the recent scandal involving Ms Canadian Punkstarlet and a certain song from the 70s)...

Trademark covers, obviously, very specific trademarked terms, like D&D. respecting it is important, obviously.

They'd have to patent the rules, and the patent office would have to let them, but even then that only covers that particular method of doing stuff. I believe there are hundreds of patents for paperclips, covering a wide variety of sizes and material compositon, not to inlude actual ratio of the curves within the paperclip shape....

so that's hardly an ironclad way out (should hasbro try something like that... if Gary had patented D&d back in the day, 3E is different enough to justify a new patent... though I doubt the patent office actually issues patents on game rules... just theoretical here...)


Saying 'Compatable with D&D' might get you in trouble because D&D is a trademark... though we've seen that putting the TM and acknowledging the existing Trademark in text provides a measure (not great, necessarily) of protection from liability.

If it becomes an issue because your take on 4e is robbing them of significant sales, they COULD try to sue you out of business, as stated above, but I think the current corporate model is actually to buy you out, a win/win for the designer, and potentially the corporate entity...

I'm currently in a similar situation with regard to Mongoose's Traveller SRD.  What I've decided to do is similar to what Stuart suggested -- I'm writing my game with my best guess of what the final content of the SRD will be.  When the actual document is finally released, it'll be a couple of feverish weeks for me while I edit out the bits that I can't use and develop suitable work-around mechanics.

All in all, it's a bit of a gamble of your time.  Do not try going to print with it before you know what the specific license will entail, though.

!i!