Quote from: SpikeThere is of course a long standing debate about players playing characters with wildly divergent intellects. That is a part of this (and if you aren't familiar with it.... too bad, I'm not rehashing the details here), but only due to relevance.

I've been pondering a thing for some time. To toot my own horn somewhat, many people I know personally account me a 'very smart' individual.  I've come to disagree with this observation, however.  It isn't that I am smart or they are 'not smart', its that I have a head full of interesting and obscure trivia, while they know things that everyone else around them knows about.

I think, and mind you I'm no smarter than anyone else, that barring a few unfortunates who are physically defiecent, and perhaps (only perhaps...) a few people who are blessed, almost everyone has the same basic capacity for reason and 'intelligence' as everyone else.   The difference lies primarily in education and areas of interest, not actual capacity.  

Thus: including an intelligence stat in a game is merely reinforcing a potentially wrongheaded notion.   I could go on about bizzare methods of 'increasing' intelligence and the metagaming aspects of it; I could cite a notional model of what I mean via example, but I've laid out the bare bones of my case. I'll leave it at that... mostly because the boss is back and I don't want to get caught out half posted....

Well, I don't agree with your premis, so I don't agree with your conclusion.  If you compare someone who is "retarded" with someone who is like Einstein, you'll find a distinct difference in Intellectual Capacity.   I don't think all minds are created equal.   Some people actually think better than others.   To me, the Intelligence Requisite reflects this.   If you take a low Intelligence person and put him or her into the same class with a high Intelligence person, the High Intelligence person will absorb more, and do better than the low.  And so, to me it seems the Intelligence Requisite has a place and does make sense.

- Mark

Quote from: Albert EinsteinWhen I was young I found out that the big toe always ends up making a hole in a sock. So I stopped wearing socks.

Sure Al, that's very clever. :rolleyes:

From my own experiences, many academics are like this.  Brilliant in their own area, but not necessarily in all other areas.

Quote from: VBWyrdeWell, I don't agree with your premis, so I don't agree with your conclusion.  If you compare someone who is "retarded" with someone who is like Einstein, you'll find a distinct difference in Intellectual Capacity.   I don't think all minds are created equal.   Some people actually think better than others.   To me, the Intelligence Requisite reflects this.   If you take a low Intelligence person and put him or her into the same class with a high Intelligence person, the High Intelligence person will absorb more, and do better than the low.  And so, to me it seems the Intelligence Requisite has a place and does make sense.

- Mark

You'll note, when I make my original point that I make allowances for those who are actually deficient... in other words 'retarded'.  And while they are obviously hindered by their biology, many of them are capable of fairly decent thinking in one fashion or another.

I've got no problem with a system like Jimmy's, that's almost exactly what I was talking about, in fact.

It may be that Xanther was right, that I mostly see the mean, but in my expirence most people toss their hands up in disgust when faced with certain intellectual challenges more out of a lack of desire/confidence than actual ability to learn the subject. We COULD suggest that they are 'less intelligent' but then that reinforces the idea that they 'can't' learn the subject in question, rather than the true state of affairs where they simply don't try, even when being shown.  I see it all the time, particularly in math and mechanical subjects.   Some people are just terrified of learning Math, or consider themselves mechanically inept, yet when given the simplest of lessons they literally shut their brains off rather than confront their self image. You can SEE IT.  You can literally watch them stop paying any attention rather than attempt to learn, and the process of teaching becomes convincing them to overcome their psychological block, rather than overcoming any real inability.

I'm old fashioned.  I say it belongs after Strength.

Quote from: GunslingerI'm old fashioned.  I say it belongs after Strength.

You're a man after my own heart, Gunny.

On a character sheet, Intelligence is a lot like Alignment; it's often ignored.

Personally, I'd like to see more intelligence in game design.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmicePersonally, I'd like to see more intelligence in game design.

-clash

:rimshot:

Quote from: One Horse Town:rimshot:

Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all week, ladies and gentlemen!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceThank you, thank you! I'll be here all week, ladies and gentlemen!

-clash

:haw:

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeOn a character sheet, Intelligence is a lot like Alignment; it's often ignored.

Pretty much. I rarely see intelligence have any impact on the game. It's ignored by everyone except players with spellcasters.

Quote from: HaffrungPretty much. I rarely see intelligence have any impact on the game. It's ignored by everyone except players with spellcasters.

Not in MY games!

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceNot in MY games!

-clash

Having played in your games, I disagree. What a bunch of freakin' idiots!:p

P.S. When does the next season start?

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeHaving played in your games, I disagree. What a bunch of freakin' idiots!:p

P.S. When does the next season start?

True! All of my players are idiots! Thats why Intelligence - or the lack thereof - plays such a big part in my games!

Beginning of December, we'll have a couple weeks get things going, then take a break for Xmas. Are you going to play Johnny?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmiceTrue! All of my players are idiots!

I can attest to that, being one of those idiots!:D

Quote from: flyingmiceBeginning of December, we'll have a couple weeks get things going, then take a break for Xmas. Are you going to play Johnny?

Yep, I think so.