Yeah, but the dragons gotta know something. Does the book have dragon perspectives?

Quote from: Narf the Mouse;234270Yeah, but the dragons gotta know something. Does the book have dragon perspectives?

No - I purposely did not push that. I feel it's up to the group to develop that - or not, as they choose - in-play. It could be the source of much exploration, or it could be ignored and played purely for the adventure.

BTW - welcome to the forum, Narf!

-clash

Thank you.

Quote from: flyingmice;234276No - I purposely did not push that. I feel it's up to the group to develop that - or not, as they choose - in-play. It could be the source of much exploration, or it could be ignored and played purely for the adventure.

Are the dragons simple beasts, or do they have high intelligence? I assume they are beasts of burden because they were domesticated. It would be difficult to "domesticate" an intelligent species. Civilize, yes; domesticate, no.

Quote from: JohnnyWannabe;234416Are the dragons simple beasts, or do they have high intelligence? I assume they are beasts of burden because they were domesticated. It would be difficult to "domesticate" an intelligent species. Civilize, yes; domesticate, no.

No, they are as intelligent as humans - which means some of them are pretty stupid - and "domesticate" in this sense means they are part of a planned breeding program which differentiates them from their wild ancestors, and that they associate with humans. Wild dragons are moderate in size, and indiscriminate in breeding.

Dragon Breeds are the result of that breeding program. The program accentuates differences and isolates desirable traits with a combination of in- and out-breeding, as all such programs do. Dragons are not real fussy about their mating partners, and humans have used that nonchalance for generations to isolate and reinforce traits, resulting in many different and distinct breeds of dragons. Breed dragons can be much larger or smaller then their wild cousins, with much more effective breath weapons or other desirable abilities like night vision or hovering flight, depending on the breed.

So they are bred like cattle, but unlike cattle, they understand that they are being bred, and have - so far - not objected. Perhaps they agree with the ultimate aim, perhaps they don't care, perhaps they aim to rule the world. I don't decide that. Dragons are individuals, and they can decide for themselves.

Dragons fight for and with humans because they like to fight, just like humans, and because they have a friendship with their Captain and a more proprietary interest in their crew. Dragons are naturally possessive, and instinctually consider humans among their possessions, although they intellectually know humans are free agents like dragons. This promotes a tight bond between dragon and crew.

-clash

On Dragons:

This is perhaps what Narf was looking for - a baseline for players to get into the mindset of a dragon:

By human standards, all dragons are acquisitive and possessive. They like getting new things, and they dislike parting with things they have. A non-materialistic dragon would still be mildly acquisitive and possessive to a human.

Dragons love shiny things. The flashier the better. Dragons are intelligent, of course, and can learn the difference between gold and plated brass, but on an instinctual level, flashy rules.

Association with humans is a voluntary act. Dragons are free agents, and if they want to fly away, there's not much once can do to stop them. They have a very close relationship with their captains, but it is a voluntary relationship.

Dragons are naturally rather anarchic. Laws are silly. Governments mystifying. They have little patience with bureaucracy. Individuals, on the other hand can command their respect and affection. They can work well with humans, or with each other, but it's a choice to do so.

Hope that helps!

-clash

This business of dragon culture- Do dolphins have culture? Do chimpanzees? Dragons are smarter than both (probably...), but they're not organized like chimpanzees or primitive humans. It would be my guess that dragons don't have a culture much higher than the "family" level of organization, but readily adapt to the guidance of humans they bond with. This would explain the extreme loyalty a dragon has for its captain and crew, but a somewhat hazier relationship with the nation that crew belongs to. They have traits that are part of their genetic inheritance- aggression and acquisition (much like a blackbird's gathering of shiny things, but at a higher level) that humans take advantage of.

When dragons begin to learn to think beyond the scope of the Corps, watch out!

It's the family thing, clash. They really don't care about much beyond their immediate family and possessions and their crew are both.:cool:

Quote from: CmdrPowers;234459This business of dragon culture- Do dolphins have culture? Do chimpanzees? Dragons are smarter than both (probably...), but they're not organized like chimpanzees or primitive humans. It would be my guess that dragons don't have a culture much higher than the "family" level of organization, but readily adapt to the guidance of humans they bond with. This would explain the extreme loyalty a dragon has for its captain and crew, but a somewhat hazier relationship with the nation that crew belongs to. They have traits that are part of their genetic inheritance- aggression and acquisition (much like a blackbird's gathering of shiny things, but at a higher level) that humans take advantage of.

When dragons begin to learn to think beyond the scope of the Corps, watch out!

Bingo, Scotty! This is exactly my take on it.

-clahs

Quote from: CmdrPowers;234461It's the family thing, clash. They really don't care about much beyond their immediate family and possessions and their crew are both.:cool:

Only caveat I'd add is that a dragon's family is not necessarily related by blood. In the wild, a dragon would have much closer relationships with dragons of the same hatching season than with parents or blood relatives. It's family by mutual interest and adoption, not by blood.

-clash

Obviously sex is not the driving force in dragon relationships. They almost certainly have seasons and an unfocused mating drive at that time, but their lives are not dominated by sex in the same way that humans are. It's the ability of humans to provide dragons with a focus during mating season that allows them to be bred, rather than breeding indiscriminately by dominance factors.

Quote from: CmdrPowers;234492Obviously sex is not the driving force in dragon relationships. They almost certainly have seasons and an unfocused mating drive at that time, but their lives are not dominated by sex in the same way that humans are. It's the ability of humans to provide dragons with a focus during mating season that allows them to be bred, rather than breeding indiscriminately by dominance factors.

Yep! Dragons don't much care - all dragons are black at night - and humans do, so humans plan breeding and dragons go along.

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;234511Yep! Dragons don't much care - all dragons are black at night

Yeeep.   That bit, I'm gonna have to change for my own self.  You just don't get something as weird as a dragon unless it cares very, very strongly about what it thinks of as a desirable match.

Quote from: Levi Kornelsen;234522Yeeep.   That bit, I'm gonna have to change for my own self.  You just don't get something as weird as a dragon unless it cares very, very strongly about what it thinks of as a desirable match.

Not a problem, Levi! In that case the breeding would be controlled by the dragons themselves. I just wanted the "Are we using them, or are they using us?" vibe to be able to creep in. I'm going to be adding rules for running wild and/or feral dragons without humans next. Hopefully you've noticed the insidious influence of Hoard here and there?

-clash

Quote from: flyingmice;234526Not a problem, Levi! In that case the breeding would be controlled by the dragons themselves. I just wanted the "Are we using them, or are they using us?" vibe to be able to creep in. I'm going to be adding rules for running wild and/or feral dragons without humans next. Hopefully you've noticed the insidious influence of Hoard here and there?

I have, indeed, noted it.

Oh, and:  Cute idea, might or might not suit you.

Breeding

Dragons think about breeding...   Often.  Almost obsessively - and discuss it without the slightest hint of shame.  Asking a dragon's opinion on what they think of a potential mate is to invite a monologue on what the offspring might look like, what favorable traits they might possess, and so on, for hours on end.  

This intense fixation springs from a fairly simple desire - dragons mate far less often than they might want, because the care of draconic young is a very serious undertaking indeed.  The fear of making a poor mating choice is, instinctively, at the root of this near-obsession.

Dragon breeders, who keep stock charts and lists of common inheritances and traits, are incredibly popular among dragons - most dragons could discuss their potential children with a breeder almost indefinitely.  More importantly, because a breeder can simply say "the Crown would be happy to see to the raising of any dragon born to this union", the breeders have immense control over the mating flights that actually do take place.

In summary, dragons want to have vast numbers of young.  We don't need to rein them in to get them to co-operate with our programme, sir.  We need only say which young we would pay the keep for, and they're as good as hatched.