So, I was thinking, maybe we could start a How To Run series of threads, describing different ways to run specific genres. Some of the issues that could be discussed -

Your definition of the genre.

Systems/Games that fit the genre/your def

Actual pointers on how you run your games.

Resources that you have found helpful - films, books, movies, links etc

Personal Horror goes first

I'll post my take on it later.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RSo, I was thinking, maybe we could start a How To Run series of threads, describing different ways to run specific genres. Some of the issues that could be discussed -

Your definition of the genre.

Systems/Games that fit the genre/your def

Actual pointers on how you run your games.

Resources that you have found helpful - films, books, movies, links etc

Personal Horror goes first

I'll post my take on it later.

Regards,
David R

I think it's a good idea!

But... this is a genre I actually don't have a handle on... how is "personal" horror different from other kinds of horror?

I might be alone in not knowing the buzzword, but this exercise might be helped by providing a (short) straw-model definition of the genre.

Cheers,
-E.

Personal Horror

This is your life - The way how I frame PH is to make it all about escaping back to normality. Characters who were ambivalent or maybe even resentful of their mundane lives would be craving to get back to it, once the bad stuff happens. Most horror IMO is about the external threat that folks face...and they normaly face it as a collective. The horror is in your face. Most people who come across it would recognize it instantly.

In my take of PH, the threat is more internal. The horror is against the individual pc...the rest of the world is ignorant that anything horrific is happening. It's personal because the world is in fact against you. What the PC would want to do, is to get back to her regular life. That's how she wins.

Films, such as Polanski's Rosemary's Baby, Roeg's Don't Look Now and books such as Dan Simmon's Carrion Comfort are some of the sources I draw from.

The Uncool - Which is why I believe that PH should not be about the pc having cool powers and such. They should be normal average, unexceptional human beings. Which is why I never considered Vampire etc to be games of personal horror. The cool factor.

If you want the pcs to have some kind of power, than IMO the use of said power should be so horrific, the compulsion to use it so abhorent to the player, that it is no longer a question of cool. The pc should never know what the consequence of the power is before hand. He should discover it only after he uses it. And it should be so repulsive or it's consequence so detrimental to the safety of all he holds dear, that it's use should frighten him.

Watch Your Step - GMing PH games is a bitch. In an Unknown Armies campaign I ran some time back I discovered a few things. (Now, I don't think there are any true PH games out there - stuff like UA, Kult etc are good games, but I think the only way to run PH is for the gm and players to come up with their own stuff.)

1 .Remember the personal in Personal Horror : Although you can have a convenient framing devise to bring the whole group together, each character should have her own storyline. In the case of my UA campaign, the pcs discovered that they were all half sibblings, the product of a polygamist father. They each discovered their own personal storyline by way of a box they each received from their father on their birthdays. What was inside the box led them to their own personal hell. (Off course support and help came from their fellow pcs)

2. Take it up a notch further - and yeah it's unfair : Now if each PC has his own storyline, make sure that with each successive introduction of a new (different pc) storyline, the horror gets more creepy and down right horrific. Which is not to say that you start of lame and improve. Nope, you start of creepy and do your best to top your previous shocker. Now this is pretty difficult if you got numerous different storylines simmering at the same time...but like I said, it's a bitch.

3.Never explain, never apologize*: Yup, somethings don't need to be explained. If you have done your job right, they would not want an explanation. Ambiguity is your friend. When your players sign up for a session of PH, make sure you are upfront, that things could get pretty nasty. That you intend for things to get pretty nasty. Know your players. Know your limits.

*Okay, if an apology is warranted than by all means....

4.There is an Endgame : The most important issue. The players and you should tell them, that the campaign has a specific length. Now I know you think, that this takes away the suspense, but IME it heightens it. The players know that things are coming to an END. Also it's difficult, not to mention oppresive to sustain an atmosphere of dread for an indefinate period. Having a time limit, makes it easier on everyone.

Okay, all this seems pretty basic but if used right, is pretty damn effective IME.

(Edit. -E ,I don't know of an accepted definition either. Hopefully my post, does enough, to convey the kind of horror I'm talking about)

Regards,
David R

Quote2. Take it up a notch further - and yeah it's unfair : Now if each PC has his own storyline, make sure that with each successive introduction of a new (different pc) storyline, the horror gets more creepy and down right horrific. Which is not to say that you start of lame and improve. Nope, you start of creepy and do your best to top your previous shocker. Now this is pretty difficult if you got numerous different storylines simmering at the same time...but like I said, it's a bitch.

Please elaborate. I really can´t imagine what you actually are playing. What is  a shocker? What do the characters do all the time?

You can't threaten the players with the death of the PCs.  Death just means they roll up another one.  Firstly you have to make them care about their characters and then you threaten what their PC's care about - their loved ones, their goals etc.

For me, personal horror games revolve around the decisions that the players are willing to make for the PC's and their friends/family to survive.

I'll use YotZ for the mainstay, since that's what I am currently running:

A wolf-pack is inhabiting the only store of diesel fuel for fifty miles that hasn't been looted the ground. The PC's can go in and try to fight off the wolf-pack in hand to hand combat...

Or they can drop a brace of 4.2" VX mortar rounds on the site.

The PC's need food, water, and medical suppllies for an injured companion. The settlement refuses to trade any of those, and a recent sojourn into a city with the intent of gathering supplies has resulted in literally thousands of the Risen having followed the PC's.

They can either move on, and hope for the best, or take what they want from a group of peaceful people.


For me, personal horror revolves around discovering that for all of your prattling about the sanctity of life, you'd use nerve agent on small children or kill those who won't give you what you want.

Quote from: SettembriniPlease elaborate. I really can´t imagine what you actually are playing. What is  a shocker? What do the characters do all the time?

Sett, in most of my (and other folks I guess) games, each pc has their own storylines which involves their character goals as indivduals and not their goals as part of a group.

To me, this is even more important in PH campaigns. When I run these kinds of games, there is a convenient framing devise which roughly holds all the pcs as a group but what drives the campaign are their invidual storylines. When a player's arc is in play, the other pcs kind of take the role as supporting characters - unless there are multiple arcs going on at the same time - and each arc builds up to a horrific realization/ending.

This last part is what I meant by "shocker" Each ending for each specific pc should be more horrific than the one that preceded it. IME this is important for a couple of reasons. Firstly it sets a mood of impending doom, the players realize that what is in store for them is worse than what went on before. Secondly, it's also morbidly entertaining for the other pcs who have completed their arc. I'm not talking about railroading or anything like that, these endings flow from their (pcs) decisions

I should have added Fate Worse Than Death - Hastur is absolutely right. Death as a threat is pretty ineffective. And yeah T-Willard, making the obscene (or what could be considered) decisions is what it's all about...although I think, this is what survival horror is all about. (But than I consider Deliverence as an example of survival horror )

Lastly I was using UA - barely - for the example I described in my post.

Regards,
David R

Quoteeach pc has their own storylines which involves their character goals as indivduals and not their goals as part of a group.

This is the part I do not really understand. How do you do this? What are the other players doing in the meantime?

Quote from: SettembriniHow do you do this?

Okay, I'll give you an example of play. In my current group there are 7 players. Let's take our recent Cyberpunk campaign. The players are part of a rap posse aiming for the big time. So, the groups goal is to  achieve fame and fortune. There is a the main star - one of the players - who acts as the leader of the group - barely.

Now, each player has their own personal goal, which sometimes clashes with the groups agenda. In the last session 5 of the players were heading to a rap showdown with another group - which in this campaign, could lead to actual violence. However the other two pcs had some place else to go.

One of them, had a personal goal, to become the most influential concert promoter in the city, so she wanted to check out this other promoter who she suspected of stealing some of her business, the other player was tagging along because he was her brother whose goal was to see that no harm came to her.

Now, in game terms, I switch from scene (the rap showdown) to scene (the stake out of the promoters apartment) spending roughly about ten mins on each scene. I've gotten into the habit of being about to do this for up to three scenes - learning through trial and error about dramatic pauses, quick cuts etc.

QuoteWhat are the other players doing in the meantime?

Well, when their scene is not being played, I suppose they are watching the other scene but most times they are planning their next move for their screen time. The example of play sounds slow moving and tedious but in reality, it's not. Things move pretty swiftly. I gotten, into the habit of getting to the essense of the encounter.

But, Sett, I think a lot of folks do this in their games in some fashion. I think there is something else to your questions. Now I admit I'm not really good at talking about gaming - I run a better game than how I describe how I run my games - but really, I think this is about your preceptions of a certain playstyle , maybe?

Regards,
David R

QuoteBut, Sett, I think a lot of folks do this in their games in some fashion. I think there is something else to your questions. Now I admit I'm not really good at talking about gaming - I run a better game than how I describe how I run my games - but really, I think this is about your preceptions of a certain playstyle , maybe?

No, No, I´m really interested. because I never ever had a "PH" session/game. I´m honestly trying to understand.
Do you have an Actual Play thread somewhere?

Quote from: SettembriniNo, No, I´m really interested. because I never ever had a "PH" session/game. I´m honestly trying to understand.

Oh, sorry about my remark . I was hoping this thread would be about gamers take on their versions of personal horror. I don't think there is one or even an accepted definition of the genre. I mean, some folks would read my posts and go "What the fuck, is this wanker, talking about" . My version may not be how most people would run this kind of game, or even if it's useful subgenre to discuss. If it is even a subgenre...

QuoteDo you have an Actual Play thread somewhere?

I don't do actual play threads. I keep thinking what I found to be the most thrilling adventure, other folks would yawn in boredom.

Regards,
David R

Well, I´d really like to know more, but without examples I think I´m lost.
I only know the Cthulhu Horror Variant, and this doesn´t seem to be what you are talking about.

Quote from: SettembriniWell, I´d really like to know more, but without examples I think I´m lost.
I only know the Cthulhu Horror Variant, and this doesn´t seem to be what you are talking about.

I don't think I could give you any examples of personal horror games..well at least not in the context of how I have defined it. I don't think any mainstream games can be PH games, and I'm not familiar with most of the indie games out there.

I do think, that the only way to run PH is when the group as a whole comes up with something. Most published horror games posit an outside threat or that the pcs are part of a group of outsiders dealing with the rest of humanity...which makes them insiders to my mind. Also most of these settings have an established supernatural history which although at the beginning at least the pcs maybe ignorant of as they proceed further they learn more.

What I'm proposing about my take on PH, is that there is nothing established out there. There is nothing to unite to fight against. There is in fact no winning or losing only the slow realization that you are not going to come out of the situation intact...which may seem like any other horror game...I'm not explaining it right..maybe, later.

Regards,
David R

Well, y'all seem to have established that there are few, if any, settings that mesh well with personal horror, as outside factors (like established supernatural history or kewl powerz) can make things only a bare fraction as horrific.

There still seem to be plenty of systems out there with mechanics that DO work for personal horror. What matters is that there should be repercussions for character actions/decisions/circumstances/backgrounds that affect the character (using the system) the world (ie the setting) and most importantly, the player (ie freaking them out).

So what's wrong with the CoC or nWoD systems? They're familiar, just inform the players that you're not using the setting and have something FAR WORSE cooked up for the poor bastards...in other words, the horrors should not be speakable. They should be UNspeakable and the product of something the players have never read about or whatever.

Why did I bother buying the Vampire books? I could've gotten so much more mileage out of just the nWoD corebook...argh.

Quote from: dsivisThere still seem to be plenty of systems out there with mechanics that DO work for personal horror. What matters is that there should be repercussions for character actions/decisions/circumstances/backgrounds that affect the character (using the system) the world (ie the setting) and most importantly, the player (ie freaking them out).

Yup, I should have made this clear, in my take of the whole genre.

QuoteSo what's wrong with the CoC or nWoD systems? They're familiar, just inform the players that you're not using the setting and have something FAR WORSE cooked up for the poor bastards...in other words, the horrors should not be speakable. They should be UNspeakable and the product of something the players have never read about or whatever.

Nothing at all. It's more of a setting thing than a system thing IMO.

QuoteWhy did I bother buying the Vampire books? I could've gotten so much more mileage out of just the nWoD corebook...argh.

I know of a few folks who would agree with you. Don't get me wrong. I like Vampire, Werewolf etc esp Mage...but IMO PH they ain't

Regards,
David R