So in my latest round of mucking about with gaming systems, i'm coming up with another one. In this one, i would like the PCs to exhibit some personality quirks that really boil down to minor obsessive/compulsive behaviour. It's a staple of the genre and it would be cool to have a room full of these quirky characters. Now these quirks will be fairly minor like 'walks in the rain', 'wears a collection of monacles', 'allways fills in crosswords', 'attends every new play to open in the west end'.

But other than to flesh characters out and as i mentioned earlier emulate the genre, i would like these quirks to have some bearing on the game. I'm stumped at the moment though. Anyone have any ideas?

Quirks aren't supposed to matter.

At least as they were used in GURPS, that five points from quirks is basically just supposed to be mechanical benefit to encourage players to add a little extra flavor to their characters without necessarily spending a full blown ad or disad on it.

In practice it doesn't necessarily work out that way, but the idea is sound.  In 4th Ed. they slipped away from the "not mattering" part of them by actually giving mechanical effects and default quirks.  They also tend to feel sort of like an obligation instead of a reward.

Quote from: J ArcaneQuirks aren't supposed to matter.

Well, they are here!

QuoteAt least as they were used in GURPS, that five points from quirks is basically just supposed to be mechanical benefit to encourage players to add a little extra flavor to their characters without necessarily spending a full blown ad or disad on it.

In practice it doesn't necessarily work out that way, but the idea is sound.  In 4th Ed. they slipped away from the "not mattering" part of them by actually giving mechanical effects and default quirks.  They also tend to feel sort of like an obligation instead of a reward.

It's nothing to do with GURPS or any existing system, but one of my own devising. It's a PI game. Nearly every PI or police detective in popular culture has a couple of quirks that set him apart from his fellows, whether it's 'fetch the needle Watson!', wearing a crumpled raincoat the whole time or whatever. I would ideally like something like this to have some kind of effect, but not the 'you get this in exchange for a disadvantage' type of thing. Just something to reinforce the genre emulation a bit.

Well exactly.  That's how the GURPS ones are supposed to work.  You think up a few odd little quirks or behaviors, and for each one, to a maximum of five, you get an extra point to spend on your character.

But it's not supposed to have any mechanical effect beyond giving you that point.  It's not a disadvantage or anything, nor an advantage either.  Stuff like you mentioned, "Always has a lollipop around" or "Never combs his hair".

It doesn't do anything at all in play.  I suppose you could could give a benny for making sure to bring it up at least once in a session or something, but I owuldn't go much farther than that, or it'd jsut get silly.  

A quirk is supposed to be a minor thing that you just do, it's noticeable to strangers, but most everyone else won't even notice after a while, it's just part of who you are.  It shouldn't take center stage.

Yeah, it's not going to take centre stage or anything. I might leave it at a single bonus to a deduction roll if the PC spends some xps once a session when the PC takes time out to 'focus' on his quirk. It basically focusses the mind somewhat on the matter at hand and reflects the obsessive/compulsive nature of investigative work. Sucking on a lollipop, walking in the rain, going to see a play, shooting up, whatever is the PIs way of focussing his mind when he is vexed with a problem. That could work. Maybe just one of these bonuses for the party per session so that it doesn't get out of hand and start to look like a mental health charity day out. :eek:

Quote from: J Arcane[...] That's how the GURPS ones are supposed to work.  You think up a few odd little quirks or behaviors, and for each one, to a maximum of five, you get an extra point to spend on your character.

But it's not supposed to have any mechanical effect beyond giving you that point.  [...]

It doesn't do anything at all in play.  [...]

First, there is no rules-mandated maximum number of Quirks specified in GURPS 4e.

Second, some of the Quirks given as examples do have an expression in the game mechanics. For example, a Chauvinist has "thin-skinned individuals" react to them at -1, Distractible gives you -1 on long tasks, as does Dreamer,  Incompetence prevents your buying or having a default in a specified single skill, and so on.

Lastly, even if they did have no game mechanics effect, there's a big step between "no mechanical effect" and "doesn't do anything at all in play." They guide your playing of the character - they help you roleplay. That's definitely doing something in play.

Which is why I don't like 4e's handling of Quirks.

I think the designers of 4e missed the point of Quirks completely.

3e's were better handled.

Quote from: J ArcaneWhich is why I don't like 4e's handling of Quirks.

I think the designers of 4e missed the point of Quirks completely.

3e's were better handled.

 You're just wrong.


...and secondly , Kromm/Sean Punch posted on this very topic recently. Just wish I could fin which thread it was over there on the SJG forums.

 Essentially 4th handles them the same wayy that 3/e did.

- Ed C.

How about tying them into the reward system? Give a player who happened to mention their quirk at some point during the session 1 XP at the end (no more than that, otherwise the quirks will be popping up constantly) for good roleplaying.

Quote from: WarthurHow about tying them into the reward system? Give a player who happened to mention their quirk at some point during the session 1 XP at the end (no more than that, otherwise the quirks will be popping up constantly) for good roleplaying.

Yeah, that could work. I suspect that it'd just end up with dishing an extra xp out to everyone after each session as it becomes second nature. I dunno, i want a bit...more than that, but i'm not sure how to do it without it taking too much time or becoming annoying.

In Blood Games II, I set up an optional traits system where players choose - or create - traits like "Off-Kilter", "Motormouth", "Meticulous", or the like. I have two PCs in my current game with the trait "Bitch."

Each PC has 7 trait points. They have a minimum of 3 traits, and can put a maximum of 4 points in each trait. Whenever a situation plays to that trait, the PC can use that trait, gaining 1 die per point spent.

This gives in-game rewards for in-game actions, and the players love it.

-clash

Quote from: One Horse TownYeah, that could work. I suspect that it'd just end up with dishing an extra xp out to everyone after each session as it becomes second nature.

Well, lots of games these days toss the players a couple of XP per session anyhow for "good roleplaying" or just for showing up to the game, neither of which I consider to be good reasons to give XP - giving XP for "good roleplaying" makes it feel like the GM is a dog trainer trying to get the players to perform tricks for him, and playing the game is enough reward for showing up. Having quirk XP replace XP given for these reasons seems fair to me, and actually ties the XP in with something tangible (which is always useful).

QuoteI dunno, i want a bit...more than that, but i'm not sure how to do it without it taking too much time or becoming annoying.

If you emphasise the quirks more than that, the quirks will stop being quirks. Really, leave it alone. PIs in the genre have their quirks, but it's wildly out-of-genre to dwell on them to any extent.

Look at it this way: Sherlock Holmes was addicted to laudanum, and Philip Marlowe was a nigh-hopeless alcoholic. Holmes's laudanum addiction was a quirk: he'd shoot up at the beginning of a story while he was sitting around waiting for a case, leave the needle and bottle behind when he was out solving the mystery, and shoot up again when he got home and got bored again - in the midst of the actual story, the laudanum was nigh-irrelevant. Marlowe's alcoholism, meanwhile, was a disadvantage: it frequently got him into trouble, and kept cropping up in the story. If a quirk actually becomes relevant to the action - for story reasons or for system reasons - it's slipping into advantage/disadvantage territory.

Really, in my experience players are very good at coming up with distinctive quirks for characters without any prompting - especially if it's a PI game. There's only so much a character gen section can do to enforce fidelity to genre.

Quote from: WarthurWell, lots of games these days toss the players a couple of XP per session anyhow for "good roleplaying" or just for showing up to the game, neither of which I consider to be good reasons to give XP - giving XP for "good roleplaying" makes it feel like the GM is a dog trainer trying to get the players to perform tricks for him[...]

But the player is there to perform roleplaying tricks which entertain the GM... and entertain the other players. And they themselves. While the GM is there to entertain everyone. Everyone's there to entertain each-other.

As GM, I grant xp for things which contribute to the fun of the whole group. No negatives are given, but double bonuses are often given, for example when a player brought homebrew beers, they got a triple "munchies" bonus These are:

• showing up on time ready to play
• bringing munchies and sharing them
• good acting - defined as, "we could tell what your character's traits were without your showing us your character sheet"
• bravery - doing anything personally confronting for the character; often this will involve not fighting.
  
• constructive - any idea or behaviour which helped the mission (if any) to completion, and/or kept the game moving.
• journal - a write-up of the events of the session.

All these are things which contribute to the fun of the group. I usually send out the xp the day after the game session in a group email. While I as GM decide these things, you can be sure that the players let me know if they think I'm being overly harsh; more often they tell me I'm being overly generous.

I don't see why anyone would think it's a bad idea for people to receive a game mechanical award for contributing to the fun of the group. If a player doesn't like xp, they are always free to not spend them on anything... I've never seen it yet, though, except in one case - and that was extreme laziness, encouraged by the GM not know the game's rules - no need to improve your character's abilities if they're never tested...