I've been wondering about this, I've seen games (True 20), where they use an abstract system for purchasing things for a character--now I like these systems, but what do you think?

Are they too abstract? Not abstract enough?

The issue is I've reached a part I never worried about in a game I'm working on--which is money. I never really made it an issue in play in my campaigns, I can see some games where it would be, though, as a friend is running a game where we must try and help 2000 odd refugees to be able to survive an oncoming winter. Now I've researched coins, price lists that approximate the fantasy world stuff I'm doing, but I really don't want exact coinage except for those who want to mess with that (and loot from sacked enemy cities..)

You can use abstract loot, but while it takes away some complication, it also takes away some possible motivations the GM can offer PCs.

"Slay the dragon, and win a great treasure hoard!"
"How much?"
"Um... enough to make you go from Wealth 4 to Wealth 6."
"Woo. Hoo."

Ah. Now I think I see a solution..

Hello

 Could u please explain wats the solutions...

 Thanks..

Lion-O,
  I think this is not a question that has a blanket answer.

  For instance, I think if the game is about, say, mercenaries, then you can't have an abstract money system at all,the money is part of the game's goals and is in the spotlight for this setting and the characters.
  But, if you are playing a game about Modern-day super heroes, then there is no place for money. It should be abstract, because it will probably not come up very often. Take superman, he works at a crappy job and has to wear a suit and keep up appearances regarding having a decent car, apartment, etc. But, they almost never talk about money in the comics, TV shows, etc. Because its just not important to the setting or the character, right?

  So, the correct answer depends on what your game is about I think.

Quote from: dindenver;270028Lion-O,
  I think this is not a question that has a blanket answer.

  For instance, I think if the game is about, say, mercenaries, then you can't have an abstract money system at all,the money is part of the game's goals and is in the spotlight for this setting and the characters.
  But, if you are playing a game about Modern-day super heroes, then there is no place for money. It should be abstract, because it will probably not come up very often. Take superman, he works at a crappy job and has to wear a suit and keep up appearances regarding having a decent car, apartment, etc. But, they almost never talk about money in the comics, TV shows, etc. Because its just not important to the setting or the character, right?

  So, the correct answer depends on what your game is about I think.

I did my mercenary game - In Harm's Way: Wild Blue - with abstract lifestyles - AKA Wealth. It works fine.


-clash

Heavy abstraction is weird.  Not necessarily bad, just...   very different.

Gah.  If you've played DRYH?  That's heavy abstraction.

My solution is to use the default system and give the general difficulty for obtaining something and explaining it. I'm also going to talk about coinage and using it for standard purchasing--but not giving blanket prices, barter is still the primary means of getting stuff in the game. (Not the only means and coinage is replacing it, but it works )

One problem with counting dollars in a game is that the dollars are "points" that are not mechanically tied to the rest of the reward system in any useful way. Unless you want to say "no" by fiat to characters who find a way to buy cheap and sell dear (or otherwise find a way to make a lot more cash than the GM has accounted for without playing the game you all sat down to play), you can get rich characters without interesting game play, and this can ruin a game, depending on what you can buy with the dollars. Of course a GM can invent obstacles, but they are necessarily synthetic.

That said, most abstract systems fail to deal with this by failing to go "all the way" with the abstraction. That is, they still try to model profit as reward and so just wind up with a different way to say, "dollars". These are usually vastly more annoying than just counting dollars.

Some games do tie dollars tightly to the system -- in fact I'm starting to appreciate why 1E D&D gave xp for gold. These at least address the issue though with varying success.

It clearly, and totally depends on how important "loot" is to the emulation of the genre you are trying to work in. In a D&D type game, money is very important.
In a game where the accumulation of treasure is not central to the game, then you can use some kind of abstract wealth score instead.

RPGPundit

It clearly, and totally depends on how important "loot" is to the emulation of the genre you are trying to work in. In a D&D type game, money is very important.
In a game where the accumulation of treasure is not central to the game, then you can use some kind of abstract wealth score instead.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Halfjack;270090One problem with counting dollars in a game is that the dollars are "points" that are not mechanically tied to the rest of the reward system in any useful way. Unless you want to say "no" by fiat to characters who find a way to buy cheap and sell dear (or otherwise find a way to make a lot more cash than the GM has accounted for without playing the game you all sat down to play), you can get rich characters without interesting game play, and this can ruin a game, depending on what you can buy with the dollars. Of course a GM can invent obstacles, but they are necessarily synthetic.

That said, most abstract systems fail to deal with this by failing to go "all the way" with the abstraction. That is, they still try to model profit as reward and so just wind up with a different way to say, "dollars". These are usually vastly more annoying than just counting dollars.

Some games do tie dollars tightly to the system -- in fact I'm starting to appreciate why 1E D&D gave xp for gold. These at least address the issue though with varying success.

In a game without experience points, money may BE the reward system, and thus it can be abstracted. The problem comes when the reward system and the wealth have no link. In my Wild Blue game, the things that earn you cash are the same things that earn you promotion.

-clash

-clash

I had exactly the same issue when designing Apocalypse Prevention, Inc. I ended up with an abstract loot system, because (as everyone has stated), money just isn't a huge deal in the setting. At the same time, i agonized over it for a long time, so i totally understand your plight. Feel free to look to API is you need inspiration or you hit another roadblock.

-Oni

I've played lots of true 20, but I've never used the wealth system. That said, money does not play an important part in my games. I just never really dug the wealth system.