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Pathfinder Homebrew Campaign, Heavy Rules Mods; Seeking Feedback

Started by Stiqqery, November 12, 2013, 10:06:06 PM

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Stiqqery

Hello, everyone. Forum newcomer. I'm currently in the process of getting feedback on a ruleset I'm using in conjunction with the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. The intention is to improve some aspects of game balance and to try and make the game make more "sense," and occasionally just make things more convenient.

I'm hoping for feedback on the viability of these changes, as well as constructive criticisms as to where I may have done something pointless or harmful to the game.

Fair warning: this is a long read, and behind the spoiler tags are walls of text.

Before we begin, I'd like to point out a few things.

1. This ruleset is pretty player-centric and thus changes a lot of stuff which, if implemented with non-humanoid creatures, would probably alter CRs radically. I'm probably doing a lot of homebrewing with respect to creatures for this reason, and while I am interested in people's thoughts about monster rules (particularly massive size differences and natural armor) they aren't the primary focus of this setup.

2. A lot of these changes are interactional, which means they were introduced to counteract drawbacks of other rules, so they may not immediately make sense without taking the other rules into account. Others are more self-contained. There's a lot of both.

2. Some of the changes were intended to make the game slightly more "realistic" in spite of the blatant fantasy elements. My goal isn't to create a really gritty setting so much as it is to nitpick out weird leaps of logic that irritate me as a player; that said, if I'm being blatantly counterproductive, I will consider letting it go.

3. While I am interested in noncore material, I'd appreciate it if these alterations were primarily looked into from the perspective of the core rules. It's a personal philosophy of mine that a game should have a good, standalone core, and I don't necessarily want to rely on specific supplements to stay afloat; however, I'd also like to know about any serious exploits I should be concerned about.

4. I may be slow to respond for personal reasons, but I'll be happy to try and respond to clear up any questions or to respond to criticism at the nearest convenience.

So, that everything? I think that's everything. Let's begin.

I. LEVELLING AND CHARACTER CREATION
Spoiler
DEFINITION: EFFECTIVE LEVEL: a character's effective level is, collectively, all levels held in a character class, as well as any “creature levels” that character has. The statistic originally referred to as “hit die” in this model will be replaced by the term “creature level” because the hit point calculation system no longer relies on dice.

ALIGNMENT: Alignment will not be recorded and the mechanical implications of the alignment system will be removed. Remaining spells or abilities relating to alignment will be edited or improvised on an as-needed basis.

PRICE OF MAGIC ITEMS: The price per point of effective enhancement bonus for armor has been doubled, so that armor and weapons effectively have the same price per point of enhancement bonus. Magic items that increase a raw ability score cost 1.5 times the price they would otherwise have.

SKILLS: Each class selects a number of skills at character creation, assigning a progression to that skill which determines how quickly that character improves in that particular skill. Each class lists a number of slow, moderate, and fast progressions they can allocate. Additionally, some classes have Class Skills, which are specific skills central to the class' intended play. Class Skills are always fast progressing.

A skill assigned a slow progression gains a bonus equal to half the character's total level.
A skill assigned a moderate progression gains a bonus equal to 3/4 of the character's total level.
A skill assigned a fast progression gains a bonus equal to the character's total level.

FAVORED CLASS: Each class has a list of benefits attained with even a single level of that class. However, some benefits are exclusive to characters who have that class listed as their favored class. A character's favored class is the class they have the highest number of levels in. If the character has two or more classes of the same level, then the character retains the favored class they had at their previous level.

DEFENSES: Saves are now defenses, derived by taking the saving throw bonus the character would otherwise have and adding 10. The slow progression is now identical to the fast progression, but starting at +0 instead of +2.

ARMOR CLASS: Armor class is derived by adding your armor and shield bonuses to your reflex defense. Armor class applies as normal to effects that would ordinarily resolve against armor class, but effects that would ordinarily resolve against touch AC now resolve against reflex. A dodge bonus now applies to both armor class and reflex, but only if the character is not flat-footed.

A character's flat-footed armor class is equal to 10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + (miscellaneous AC bonuses), but does not include the character's reflex defense, nor any dodge bonuses.

ARMOR: For any given piece of armor, half of its armor bonus (rounded down) is removed, and converted into an equivalent number of points of DR /adamantine which stack with any other sources of DR. Ex: Scale Mail normally adds +5 to the wearer's armor class; under these rules, Scale Mail adds +3 to the wearer's armor class, as well as granting dr 2/adamantine.

SAVE DCS: in place of Saving Throw DCs, hazards, spellcasters, etc. roll 1d20 against the target's defense at a bonus equal to their normal DC minus ten. Circumstances in which a saving throw must be made are otherwise identical.

II. WEAPON AND FIGHTING RULES
Spoiler
DEFINITION OF WEAPON: A "Weapon" is broadly defined as any natural, manufactured, or supernatural method of attack. There are limits to how many times the same "weapon" can be used in a round. Furthermore, a weapon class (light, standard, heavy) is a determination of how easily and quickly that weapon can be used. If not otherwise specified, natural weapons are assumed to be light weapons. “Standard” weapons include melee one-handed weapons, and “Heavy” weapons include melee two-handed weapons, but also include other weapons (see below).

Weapon classes are now also being applied to ranged weapons. Light ranged weapons include darts, shuriken, hand crossbows. Standard ranged weapons include blowguns, javelins, light crossbows, shortbows, sling staffs, and slings. Heavy ranged weapons include heavy crossbows and longbows. Ranged touch attacks and rays are generally assumed to be light weapons, though often they cannot be used multiple times in one turn, as they require at least a standard action unto themselves.

MULTIWEAPON FIGHTING: A character using more than one weapon takes a -4 penalty to all attacks. Attacks made with light weapons reduce this penalty by two. The multiweapon fighting feat further reduces all penalties by two. Using more than two different weapons in the same round increases the penalties additively.

double weapons are treated as two light weapons, but are heavier and require more difficult proficiencies, making them an effective but difficult approach to multiweapon fighting.

Throwing multiple weapons in a turn only count as a single "weapon" even if multiple different types of weapons are thrown in the same round. For purposes of multiweapon fighting and multiple attacks, thrown weapons are whatever weapon class (light, one handed, or heavy) the heaviest object they threw was (see also Multiple Attacks).

MULTIPLE ATTACKS: A character using melee, ranged, thrown, or natural weapons can make multiple attacks as a full round action, with the following penalties and attack caps:

Light weapons: -1 per extra attack, up to five attacks.
standard weapons: -2 per extra attack, up to three attacks.
heavy weapons: -2 per extra attack, up to three attacks.

A character using multiple attacks in the same round calculates penalties based on the heaviest weapon class they're using.

CHARGES: Charges now grant +2 to the damage roll in addition to +2 to attack rolls

SINGLE-HANDING BIG WEAPONS: A character wielding a heavy weapon in one hand incurs a -4 attack roll penalty. Weapons made for a size category larger can be used in their intended handedness at a -4 penalty.

COMBAT EXPERTISE: Combat Expertise can now be used in conjunction with either a standard action attack or without making an attack in that round.

FIGHTING DEFENSIVELY: A character fighting defensively or taking a total defense action gains an additional +1 added to any shield bonus they may have.

III. SPELLCASTING RULES
Spoiler
SPELLCASTING ROLLS: In place of the normal DC calculation method, a spellcaster rolls 1d20 + their relevant ability score modifier + 1/2 their caster level when determining the success or failure of their spells.

ARCANE SPELL FAILURE CHANCE: ASFC is removed. Instead, a spellcaster who is not proficient in the armor they are wearing incurs the armor check penalty to their spellcasting rolls and to all concentration checks.

SPONTANEOUS CASTING: Wizards, Clerics, Druids, and other preparation casters now have a spells known table and can cast from any spell they know, rather than selecting a list of pre-prepared spells at the beginning of each day. These spellcasting classes otherwise operate normally except as otherwise noted in their individual entries. See also appendix: Cleric, Druid and Wizard Spells Known and Paladin and Ranger Spells Known

IV. INDIVIDUAL CLASS CHANGES, FAVORED CLASS BENEFITS, AND SKILLS
Spoiler
BARBARIAN

General:
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Survival

Favored:
-HP: 12 + 6 per level
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons
-Skills: 0 Slow, 2 Moderate, 3 Fast
-Class Skills: Intimidate
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude

Changes

-Strength bonus converted into equivalent damage bonus
-Constitution bonus converted into equivalent temporary HP

BARD:

General:
-HP: 4 per level
-Proficiencies: Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Perform (any one)

Favored:
-HP: 8
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Shields, Longsword, Rapier, Sap, Short Sword, Shortbow, Whip
-Skills: 2 Slow, 4 Moderate, 4 Fast
-Class Skills: Knowledge (History)
-Defenses: +2 Reflex, +2 Will

Changes

-Removed Versatile Performance
-Increased effective skill points

CLERIC:

General:
-HP: 4 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor
-Class Skills: Knowledge (Religion)

Favored:
-Base HP: 8
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Shields, Favored weapon of diety.
-Skills: 0 Slow, 2 Moderate, 2 Fast
-Class Skills: Knowledge (History) or Knowledge (The Planes)
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude, +2 Will

Changes

-Domains now grant spells known in place of spells per day
-Clerics lose the ability to spontaneously cast Cure and Inflict spells, and do not gain them automatically as spells known

DRUID:

General:
-HP: 4 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor
-Class Skills: Survival

Favored:
-Base HP: 8
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Shields, Club, Dagger, Dart, Quarterstaff, Scimitar, Scythe, Sickle, Shortspear, Sling, and Spear.
-Skills: 0 Slow, 2 Moderate, 3 Fast
-Class Skills: Knowledge (Nature)
-Defenses: +2 Reflex, +2 Will

Changes

-Domains now grant spells known in place of spells per day
-Druids cannot spontaneously cast Summon Nature's Ally spells.
-Wild Shape reworked

Wild Shape (Su): At 5th level, a Druid under the effect of Beast Shape, Elemental Body, or Plant Shape spells multiplies the spell's duration by ten. Additionally, she can freely switch between viable forms for the duration of the spell. She also adds Beast Shape I to her spells known.

At 7th level, the Druid adds Beast Shape II and Elemental Body I to her spells known.

At 9th level, the Druid adds Beast Shape III,  Elemental Body II, and Plant Shape I to her spells known.

At 11th level, the Druid adds Beast Shape IV, Elemental Body III, and Plant Shape II to her spells known.

At 13th level, the Druid adds Elemental Body IV and Plant Shape III to her spells known.


FIGHTER:

General:
-HP: 5 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Choose one from Acrobatics or Ride

Favored:
-Base HP: 10
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons
-Skills: 0 Slow, 2 Moderate, 2 Fast
-Class Skills: Survival
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude

Changes

-Bravery reworked. Grants a +4 bonus at first level instead of scaling bonus.


MONK:

General:
-HP: 4 per level
-Proficiencies: -
-Class Skills: Acrobatics

Favored:
-Base HP: 8
-Proficiencies: Club, Crossbow (light or heavy), Dagger, Handaxe, Javelin, Shortspear, Short Sword, Sling, Spear, and all Monk Weapons
-Skills: 2 Slow, 2 Moderate, 3 Fast
-Class Skills: Sense Motive (Wis)
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude, +2 Reflex, +2 Will

Changes

-Ki strike (lawful), maneuver training removed
-full Base Attack Bonus
-Bonus feats changed: A monk must now qualify for any bonus feats selected, but all bonus feats are available at any level. Changes to the list to be added later.
-Monk's wisdom bonus to AC and CMD removes
-Monks able to wear light armor without negating abilities but not proficient at onset
-Unarmored monk gains +2 dodge bonus to Reflex
-Perfect self changed to DR 5/epic
-Flurry of Blows changed

Flurry of Blows (Ex): A Monk using only unarmed strikes or a monk weapon does not suffer penalties for using multiple weapons. A monk can always make an offhand attack with an unarmed strike, even if their hands are both occupied.

-Quivering Palm now requires a standard action (involving an attack roll) instead of an attack equivalent action, and stuns the target on a successful save.

PALADIN:

General:
-HP: 5 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Knowledge (Religion)

Favored:
-Base HP: 10
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, Shields, Martial Weapons
-Skills: 1 Slow, 1 Moderate, 2 Fast
-Class Skills: Heal or Ride
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude, +2 Will

Changes

-Detect Evil removed
-Smite Evil reworked (now Smite); now not alignment limited, no AC bonus or specific creature type bonuses
-Divine Grace removed
-Aura of Justice and Aura of Faith removed
-Aura of Righteousness now at level 14.
-Paladin code now specific to diety or creed

RANGER:

General:
-HP: 5 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Perception

Favored:
-Base HP: 10
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Martial Weapons, Shields
-Skills: 2 Slow, 2 Moderate, 3 Fast
-Class Skills: Survival
-Defenses: +2 Fortitude, +2 Reflex,

Changes

-Bonus feats changed: A Ranger must now qualify for any bonus feats selected, but all bonus feats are available at any level. All Ranger bonus feats have been compiled into a single master list. Changes to the list to be added later.

ROGUE:

General:
-HP: 4 per level
-Proficiencies: Light Armor, Simple Weapons
-Class Skills: Stealth

Favored:
-Base HP: 8
-Proficiencies: Medium Armor, Hand Crossbow, Rapier, Sap, Shortbow, and Short Sword
-Skills: 2 Slow, 4 Moderate, 4 Fast
-Class Skills: Disable Device
-Defenses: +2 Reflex

Changes:

-Sneak Attack requires a standard action to execute, but damage increases every level instead of every odd level.

SORCERER:

General:
-HP: 3 per level
-Proficiencies: -
-Class Skills: Use Magic Device

Favored:
-Base HP: 6
-Proficiencies: Simple Weapons
-Skills: 1 Slow, 1 Moderate, 2 Fast
-Class Skills: Spellcraft
-Defenses: +2 Will

WIZARD:

General:
-HP: 3 per level
-Proficiencies: -
-Class Skills: Knowledge (Arcana)

Favored:
-Base HP: 6
-Proficiencies: Club, Dagger, Heavy Crossbow, Light Crossbow, and Quarterstaff
-Skills: 1 Slow, 1 Moderate, 2 Fast
-Class Skills: Spellcraft
-Defenses: +2 Will

Changes:

-School specializations now grant spells known in place of spells per day, and do not require opposed schools.

V. APPENDIX: SPELLS KNOWN TABLES
Spoiler
[ATTACH]838[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]839[/ATTACH]

EDIT: Did some minor corrections. I anticipate there will be more in the future. Considering updating the Multiple Attacks section with a simpler ruling.

Bloody Stupid Johnson

OK well my 2c, grouping these by my opinion of the changes:

Mildly Good: removal of stat modifier to save DC, removal of divine grace (maybe), charge damage bonus
Undecided: Favoured classes (I don't understand how this is supposed to work), spontaneous casting/limited spells for wizards.
Neutral: armour as DR, defenses rather than saves, increased cost of some items.
Bad: revised skill progressions, a few of the class changes (bravery as a set bonus, quivering palm, wizards' losing opposition schools, rangers requiring feat prerequisites)
Very Bad: the multiple attack rules

Stiqqery

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;708139OK well my 2c, grouping these by my opinion of the changes:

Mildly Good: removal of stat modifier to save DC, removal of divine grace (maybe), charge damage bonus
Undecided: Favoured classes (I don't understand how this is supposed to work), spontaneous casting/limited spells for wizards.
Neutral: armour as DR, defenses rather than saves, increased cost of some items.
Bad: revised skill progressions, a few of the class changes (bravery as a set bonus, quivering palm, wizards' losing opposition schools, rangers requiring feat prerequisites)
Very Bad: the multiple attack rules

Thanks for replying! I'm going to attempt to dissect this as best as I can.

First of all, one of the things you liked was actually a misprint on my part! The pass/fail roll for spellcasting was actually supposed to be 1d20 + (stat) + 1/2 caster level. The thing I was removing was actually the spell level factor, which was replaced with 1/2 caster level. I'm definitely interested in your thoughts on spellcasting pass/fail stuff, though. That section will be corrected, for now.

Divine Grace was primarily a problem from my perspective because of all of the defensive auras paladins get, combined with two good saves(/defense), and the buff to the bad progression included in these rules. It's a class that already has four immunities, I don't think being nigh impervious to everything is really necessary at that point.

The defenses thing is one part arbitrary and one part accommodating to the change in how Armor Class is calculated in this model. You'll note armor class scales now, since it's partly based off of Reflex.

I was pretty pleased with the skill progression thing, but maybe that's just because I don't really like skill points all that much. It feels kinda high maintenance, and while it does offer versatility, I attempted to allow for some of that in my own revision. I felt like modeling the progressions off of Base Attack Bonus would make them more intuitive.

Definitely interested in your thoughts on the individual class changes as a whole, since there's a lot.

And finally... the multiple attack rules are DEFINITELY something I'd like to talk about. I never cared for the existing BAB-scaling attack rate method much, though I sort of understand why it's there; I attempted to make a change that would make multiple attacks an option at lower levels without totally breaking the game, but that was never going to be easy no matter how you look at it. Perhaps more importantly, I felt like light weapons got a raw deal in the normal rules, so that's what their increased attack rate is about.

Look forward to hearing from more people in the future, and I'm always up for questions.

Bloody Stupid Johnson

Oh OK...I missed that reflex modifier is being added to AC, as well as the change to DR, sorry. I'd call that a bad idea as well since it gives more combat benefit to classed with good reflex, like rogues and such, even if that's only 2 points. Your overall effect isn't much different to just giving everyone a flat defense modifier (since the good reflex classes usually have bad armour). I liked similar changes in, say, Conan d20, although that used IIRC a separate Defense bonus, and bumped up weapon damage to account for armour.
 
I realized I probably should give more reasoning on the comments. I liked removing spellcasting modifier since its an unfair roll: it pits what is probably the caster's best stat against what's likely a bad defender stat (by choosing a spell to target a weak point), and with the discrepancy growing larger as the caster levels up.
And I like Pathfinder's skill progression over 3.5's in core since its a fixed 3-point (15%) difference, and doesn't charge different amounts for the same +1. Really I don't like classes having different skills at all - too cookie-cutter - in Pathfinder I'd usually pick up an extra class skill with a Trait if they're allowed and it fit the character.
 
The change to quivering palm seems like it makes it worse than Stunning Fist. Divine grace I find the bonus a bit too massive. Giving wizards spells known comes with some misgivings about if this will kill the part of the game where PCs are questing for new spells or whatnot, though if anything its good for game balance and simplifies character tracking. The ranger changes are a bit of a kick to the archery ranger, who would need Point Blank shot to access Rapid Shot.
 
The multiple attack rules I thought were bad since multiple attacks are (meant to be) a noticeable benefit to levelling up in the martial classes; its also messy in that there aren't that major a difference between damage for light/one-handed weapons, because a character taking a penalty will often increase their chance to hit overall (by rolling twice), gives benefits similar to Two Weapon Fighting without the feat, likely increases damage per round and so squishiness of characters, advantages ranged characters more since they don't need to move, and lets characters with large damage bonuses (i.e. rogues) do scary amounts of damage.

Stiqqery

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;708226Oh OK...I missed that reflex modifier is being added to AC, as well as the change to DR, sorry. I'd call that a bad idea as well since it gives more combat benefit to classed with good reflex, like rogues and such, even if that's only 2 points. Your overall effect isn't much different to just giving everyone a flat defense modifier (since the good reflex classes usually have bad armour). I liked similar changes in, say, Conan d20, although that used IIRC a separate Defense bonus, and bumped up weapon damage to account for armour.
 
I realized I probably should give more reasoning on the comments. I liked removing spellcasting modifier since its an unfair roll: it pits what is probably the caster's best stat against what's likely a bad defender stat (by choosing a spell to target a weak point), and with the discrepancy growing larger as the caster levels up.
And I like Pathfinder's skill progression over 3.5's in core since its a fixed 3-point (15%) difference, and doesn't charge different amounts for the same +1. Really I don't like classes having different skills at all - too cookie-cutter - in Pathfinder I'd usually pick up an extra class skill with a Trait if they're allowed and it fit the character.
 
The change to quivering palm seems like it makes it worse than Stunning Fist. Divine grace I find the bonus a bit too massive. Giving wizards spells known comes with some misgivings about if this will kill the part of the game where PCs are questing for new spells or whatnot, though if anything its good for game balance and simplifies character tracking. The ranger changes are a bit of a kick to the archery ranger, who would need Point Blank shot to access Rapid Shot.
 
The multiple attack rules I thought were bad since multiple attacks are (meant to be) a noticeable benefit to levelling up in the martial classes; its also messy in that there aren't that major a difference between damage for light/one-handed weapons, because a character taking a penalty will often increase their chance to hit overall (by rolling twice), gives benefits similar to Two Weapon Fighting without the feat, likely increases damage per round and so squishiness of characters, advantages ranged characters more since they don't need to move, and lets characters with large damage bonuses (i.e. rogues) do scary amounts of damage.

...Yeah I can see that I've got a lot of work to do. Some of it to fix legitimately problematic rules, and some of it to communicate the rules better to avoid confusion.

I'm not going to cover absolutely everything right this second, because there's a lot, but I'll make a few clarification just to get things started.

Two-Weapon Fighting basically got gutted and converted to a completely different system. See the "Multiweapon Fighting" section. Condensed version: it doesn't grant extra attacks and serves a completely different purpose.

Sneak Attack was nerfed to a standard action, though its damage doubled.

Quivering Palm is instakill if it succeeds OR a stun even if it fails. There is no "no effect" scenario except total immunity to the ability (i.e. nonliving creatures)

Pathfinder's archery builds kinda wreck shit mercilessly and I don't mind nerfing it a little but I don't want to overdo it.

The comment that the altered attack rate progression making everyone squishier is a legitimate point, and what I may do instead is just give a character using a Light weapon an extra attack at their highest BAB when full-round attacking.

I'm a bit confused by what you're referring to with respect to skills. It's... not that the progressions are assigned to specific skills, only that you get to assign progressions (which and how many determined by class) to whatever skills you want. In this context a "class skill" is just a freebie.

With respect to armor, I think you're right, though. In practice, most classes (that aren't primary spellcasters) are able to dodge effectively to partly compensate for their lack of armor, though they are squishier due to their lack of damage reduction.

I'm beginning to think maybe, by being this ambitious, I've made it pretty difficult to follow. My condolances. I might need to go through a revision just to trim it down a bit, which is a shame. Hm. I'm going to leave this up as-is until further notice, but I'm going to seriously consider pruning it a bit.

Stiqqery

Testing; I think the sudden need for moderator approval may have eaten my previous post for some reason?

EDIT: Huh. Weird.

Anyway, I can see that I have a lot of work to do, but I'll try to sum up your specific points and move on to the rest later.

With regard to magic, what I was attempting to do was, one, give spells more longevity over the course of the game so that offensive lower level spells can scale a little longer (some utility spells already had an impressive shelf life), and two, slightly slow down the speed their DCs ramp at (even if it's ultimately a little higher in the end). Your point with the stat thing is valid, but it's at least less of a problem than usual as the result of other changes.

you're right with respect to the armor thing, but since the bad progression is still pretty good and armored characters get DR/adamantine, they're still gonna be a lot more durable than their unarmored counterparts. Whether or not that's such a great idea is up in the air at the moment.

My intent with skills was to have at least some of the really vital, core skills for each class be "freebies" (which, class skills are basically the 1/1 progression at no cost to you), and have the player be able to select what skills they want to assign what progressions to freely; the idea of the moderate and slow progressions occured to me because I wanted to preserve some of the "dabbling" potential from the skill point system and I felt like using progressions similar to BAB would be intuitive and require less micromanagement.

The spells known thing with Wizards is complicated but it's primarily to offset the prepared to spontaneous caster conversion. Quivering Palm was a bit weird, but I think given their increased BAB, having a move that, if it hits, is a guaranteed stun or a potential instakill is worth losing a bit in the action economy. With respect to rangers, I'm willing to kick the archery stuff a little since it's pretty nasty even without the ability to skip Point Blank Shot.

The attack rate thing is valid, and I think I made things too complicated. My current plan is to just give light weapons a single extra attack (at max BAB) when making a full-round attack. I think this change will work for a few reasons:

one, I'm already changing the two weapon fighting stuff a lot (see Multiweapon Fighting) to be less oriented about extra attacks and more about gaining passive advantages when fighting (particularly defensive, in compensation for the lack of a shield).

two, I think that weapon enchantments could potentially allow the extra attack to be abused, but it would require some dedication to using light weapons to make it worthwhile. I'm not really worried about rogues because 1. they were already broken with TWF and 2. I specifically changed how sneak attack works to prevent them from abusing multiple attacks in a round. The other one that immediately comes to mind is the Monk, and I'm pretty sure if I'm using the simplified revision I mentioned here, I'm going to have to overhaul flurry yet again anyhow.

Your other points are valid and part of why I'm backing down from my original rule multiple attacks per round.

Thanks again, by the way.

Bloody Stupid Johnson

With the post doing weird things, I think I've heard of similar things happening...I'm guessing the site wasn't sure if you were a spambot.
Skills progression is actually a really difficult problem. Extra attack for light weapons doesn't sound too bad, given that these are probably a bit underpowered (and with DR as well).
Anyway you're welcome - best of luck with it.

Stiqqery

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;708628Skills progression is actually a really difficult problem.

Amen.