For the future (2011), I'm going to try and put out a revised/expanded and cleaned up H&S. The focus will be better settings, more explanations of superhero tropes and using them, and general a better product (art, editing.)

I'd like feedback on what else I should focus on. It is a LONG time away, but I feel that working on it slowly and surely is better than rushing out a simple revision with minor fixes. I'm going to TRY, to afford full color artwork, as well as a number of other things.

What do you think? What should I do?

Quote from: Silverlion;278788For the future (2011), I'm going to try and put out a revised/expanded and cleaned up H&S. The focus will be better settings, more explanations of superhero tropes and using them, and general a better product (art, editing.)

I'd like feedback on what else I should focus on. It is a LONG time away, but I feel that working on it slowly and surely is better than rushing out a simple revision with minor fixes. I'm going to TRY, to afford full color artwork, as well as a number of other things.

What do you think? What should I do?

Less setting and more explanation, Tim. As a  big fan of H&S, that's really all I can think of.

-clash

Is there any specific reason why you think a second edition is necessary? I only ask because I often find myself wanting to revisit old work. My reason is usually, "I can do this better." Is it the same for you?

Quote from: JohnnyWannabe;278816Is there any specific reason why you think a second edition is necessary? I only ask because I often find myself wanting to revisit old work. My reason is usually, "I can do this better." Is it the same for you?

Good point, Rich! I don't think a 2nd edition really IS necessary, but that's me.

-clash

Quote from: JohnnyWannabe;278816Is there any specific reason why you think a second edition is necessary? I only ask because I often find myself wanting to revisit old work. My reason is usually, "I can do this better." Is it the same for you?

I have been facing this same question (and GREAT question it is) about Nebuleon and Iridium in general. Things that have helped me.

1. Playtesters - the more brutal the better. I have a real gear head in Germany named Christian. He is a great guy for system stuff but is so far off on setting as to make me wonder if he read any settings.

2. Sit down with the work again. This may or may not apply but for me, I sat down with Nebuleon with a critical eye. It is easier for me with settings (Clash will attest to how I suck with system) and realized that I liked a lot of it, had glossed some of it, and some of it was downright kitchy. The tough part for me is "Do I keep the kitch?". I was surprised that a lot fans liked those parts.

3. Determine what parts of system and setting you wish to update. I know it sounds obvious but I was having a hell of a time keeping the system out of the setting and the setting out of the system. What I mean is I would say something like "But the FTL concept needs work!" when what I meant was "The mechanics that govern FTL need work". It is a small but very important thing especially with a revision.

Good luck!

Quote from: HinterWelt;278845Determine what parts of system and setting you wish to update. I know it sounds obvious but I was having a hell of a time keeping the system out of the setting and the setting out of the system. What I mean is I would say something like "But the FTL concept needs work!" when what I meant was "The mechanics that govern FTL need work". It is a small but very important thing especially with a revision.

Yes. Now that Clash has convinced me that system matters, I have a problem with "system creep." The mechanics creep into everything. They tend to break (or certainly limit) setting elements. Even worse, they break themselves when stressed by the setting. This past year I haven't released a thing because of system creep. I have a number of interesting projects on the go, but system creep has made it a slow process.

I thought Heart and Souls was solid, as is. I would hate to see Tim get mired in a revision of a game that I think is sound when he has mentioned two other projects that seem exceptionally cool.

Tim, however, is the author. I am certain he has his reasons. There are several things I would like to revise - Centre of the Universe and Realm Antique spring immediately to mind. Part of me thinks I could work those two games into something really solid. Another part of me thinks I should let sleeping dogs lie and forge ahead with new ideas.

I have revised four games in the past three years with mixed results. I am extremely happy with Boomtown Planet - Saturday Edition, the edited Creep Chronicle, and Sponge Monkeys from Outer Space. I was not as happy with Shebang (a revision of the Terran Story). While Shebang has IMO a far better setting, it still lacks the oomph I would like it to have.

A warning to the OP. Sometimes revisiting a monster is a dangerous thing. While it failed to eat your face the first time you visited it, you might be as lucky the second time around.Why? Because it is expecting you.;p

Quote from: JohnnyWannabe;278860Yes. Now that Clash has convinced me that system matters, I have a problem with "system creep." The mechanics creep into everything. They tend to break (or certainly limit) setting elements. Even worse, they break themselves when stressed by the setting. This past year I haven't released a thing because of system creep. I have a number of interesting projects on the go, but system creep has made it a slow process.

I wish I'd never convinced you! It never stopped me, and your games are too cool to be wasted!

QuoteI have revised four games in the past three years with mixed results. I am extremely happy with Boomtown Planet - Saturday Edition, the edited Creep Chronicle, and Sponge Monkeys from Outer Space. I was not as happy with Shebang (a revision of the Terran Story). While Shebang has IMO a far better setting, it still lacks the oomph I would like it to have.

Well - Shebang! was like a subset of TTS - focused down on one aspect of it. I love it, but there was a lot more there that got pushed aside.

QuoteA warning to the OP. Sometimes revisiting a monster is a dangerous thing. While it failed to eat your face the first time you visited it, you might be as lucky the second time around.Why? Because it is expecting you.;p

Maybe you should release some of these games as systemless settings? Yoiu shouldn't be so spooked, Rich!

-clash

Quote from: HinterWelt;278845(Clash will attest to how I suck with system)

I have become a monster! Bill, you certainly don't suck at system! Your systems are solid, which is praise I seldom give for good reason! I would certainly NOT attest to that!

-clash

Oh. First of all. I've got High Valor coming out soon (editing and layout stage.) I'm working on ACE (Action Card Engine) and Derelict Delvers slowly now, doing little bits here and there to keep myself busy while I wait for High Valor.

 I'm not planning on starting a revision on Hearts & Souls until next year, but I want a solid set of goals set up before hand. Right now my aim is to explain everything better, and improve the settings. I may simplify the capability names a bit. (I was trying to be fancy, and shouldn't have.)

I've got E.O.N and Cold Chrome Knights on the back burner until I see how High Valor does. Simply because they both have similar genre rules to High Valor with slightly different, pardon the expression, chrome.  High Valor is dark age fantasy that isn't really high or low. It's more like dark ages as people believed them to work, set in my fantasy world of Aeia. Dragons, demons, and undead exist, and great heroes face them only to die in repelling them. It is heroic, but risky.

 E.O.N is a "dark" space opera game with supernatural and necrosculpted foes.  Cold Chrome Knights is cyberpunk through my own lens. They all have heroic and gritty aspects. Mind you I'm not sure I should use the same system (High Valor) for all three. I do think it is a solid system that can work since they DO share some of the same feel and tropes. (Love, betrayal, honor, dying well.)
 
I think system matters to a point in shaping how certain genre aspects are implemented. Yet that is NOT all of the situation with any game.

The fact is ACE will come out in Vast Frontiers (setting and system) first. I will do another implementation of those rules with a LOT of settings to highlight the utility of the rules. Right now I've got: Gundragon Eidolon, Fire & Steel, Parasite Xeonphage Exodus, and an unnamed fantasy mecha setting, I'm thinking about. They range from large spacecraft who transform to simple car duelling in ruins and dystopian patrolled locales in the future, to guyveresque infighting between two  (related) alien lifeforms on earth.

I've got a lot to write. I'm not trying to revisit something I love, and try and hammer it again. Just make what I have crisper, cleaner. I'll be having it drycleaned, and the seems repaired. Not a complete new suit. If that makes sense.


I'd also like to do a new version of tribes, with its own system. Not sure what yet. Nothing has cliqued for a game of prejudice and fear in a fantastic world.

Though I've never read Hearts & Souls (I'll take a look when I start working shortly), I'd focus on genre specific setting customization tools, genre running guidance, and advice/tools to inspire character breadth.

Indeed. Lots of ideas I've been aiming to add. Including "Spotlight specific design of characters"

I'm also simplifying attribute names from my wonky ideas to something more traditional: Perhaps Might, Agility, Resilience, Brains, Knowledge, and Resolve (changing Deftness and Prowess to something simpler and more exact to gaming usage.)